Fastpass - What Do You Think?

[VillanovaBlue]

I love FP, but I want to address a rumor going around for a bit now. How would people feel about a FP that had more options depending on the level of hotel you were staying at? Stay at a Deluxe, get more priviledges with FP. Everyone gets the basic still, however. This has been brought up by many people, and I am curious to see everyone's opinion. I would hate it personally, but that's just me....

I'd like to see them have it set up more like Universal for WDW resort guests (not just Deluxe, but all on-prop hotels)...where if you are staying On-Property, you get to show your room key and get on the fastpass line, no matter what time of day...for those staying off-property, they would still be able to use the regular FP kiosks, etc...

Thoughts?

 

[mrtoad]

I'd like to see them have it set up more like Universal for WDW resort guests (not just Deluxe, but all on-prop hotels)...where if you are staying On-Property, you get to show your room key and get on the fastpass line, no matter what time of day...for those staying off-property, they would still be able to use the regular FP kiosks, etc...

Thoughts?

Do you or does anybody know what the ratio is of guests staying on property to guests that are staying off property? If it were only 5% or 10 % of guests stay on property than it would not affect the system but if all of a sudden 35% or 50% of the guests just started walking onto fastpass lines they would no longer be fast...

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Works for me, but then Im not a Muppet

 

[DizFanatic]

Do you or does anybody know what the ratio is of guests staying on property to guests that are staying off property? If it were only 5% or 10 % of guests stay on property than it would not affect the system but if all of a sudden 35% or 50% of the guests just started walking onto fastpass lines they would no longer be fast...

Well there has to be well over 20,000 rooms on property. Multiply that by 2-4 people per room... thats lots of people! I think the extra magic hours is a nice feature for on property guests, but maybe as an on-prop guest you can get your next fastpass quicker. But we don't want fastpass turning into a regular line...
Like when people line up in front of fastpass return 5-10 minutes before there time and block the way for others who are complying with the assigned time. I've had to wait because of that a few times. I usually just mozie on in leisurly durring my hour window. But this is another argument... so sorry for bringing it up:lookaroun

 

[mrtoad]

Well there has to be well over 20,000 rooms on property. Multiply that by 2-4 people per room... thats lots of people! I think the extra magic hours is a nice feature for on property guests, but maybe as an on-prop guest you can get your next fastpass quicker. But we don't want fastpass turning into a regular line...
Like when people line up in front of fastpass return 5-10 minutes before there time and block the way for others who are complying with the assigned time. I've had to wait because of that a few times. I usually just mozie on in leisurly durring my hour window. But this is another argument... so sorry for bringing it up:lookaroun

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. That it is not going to be 5% or something of the people. If anything, I would think that the number is around 3 out of 4 guests stay on property but that is a wild guess and I don't know any exact figures. In doing this then it will just cause both lines to become normal lines and slowing everything down. The CMs who need to feed in fast passers into the rest of the crowd will have a harder time doing this as it will be a much larger line than what is normally there as well as right now they only give out X amount of fast passes per hour. But with the proposed fastpass set up you could wind up having 10 times or more the amount of expected fast passers.

 

[DisneyDragon]

I am a logistics professional, and have worked through a lot of optimization exercises - queues, capacity, transportation, networks, blah blah blah.

FastPass does make a lot of sense from a park planning perspective. I could launch into a whole diatribe on linear algebra, problem sets, heuristics, etc - but I won't because other than maybe Len Testa, it would bore everyone to tears (and Len is already THE pro on it).

Adding window times to a problem set vastly reduces the size, and allows Disney to adjust capacity where possible - adding vehicles and staff, for example. Plus, it forces crowds into certain areas by having them relocate to a given area at a given time.

Personally, I've always thought that forcing large tour groups to specific touring plans would help in capacity issues - for example, watching 3 large groups hit one attraction at the same time swamps the queue pretty badly. I witnessed this happen at HM one September, and it was nuts. It would be similar to a shotgun start in a golf tournament, would allow the groups to see the best attractions (which is primarily what they do anyways).

I do agree though that first come, first serve for the entire range of FastPasses could be adjusted into blocks, say, 3-4 hour increments. Wouldn't affect the results too much, and would be slightly more fair to those that arrive later (AP holders, park hopping guests). One could expect queues at the machines right before the new releases, though.

 

[Tinkwings]

TGFFP!!! That's my opinion........short and sweet. So many times as we whizzed thru I overheard "where are those people going?!!!" and "What is a FastPass?" As Martha would say...."It's a Good Thing!!!":sohappy:

 

[Tinkwings]

and yes DisDragon....Disney hit the jackpot on park logisitics....so great that people are specialists such as yourself in this arena. Sure kills expectations for other theme parks I have encountered. Course the first time I waited in the long line for BTM to find another room and yet another area to wait I recognized their genius.....and the genius of GETTING A FAST PASS INSTEAD!!!

 

[basas]

I'd like to see them have it set up more like Universal for WDW resort guests (not just Deluxe, but all on-prop hotels)...where if you are staying On-Property, you get to show your room key and get on the fastpass line, no matter what time of day...for those staying off-property, they would still be able to use the regular FP kiosks, etc...

Thoughts?

But think about it...Universal only has 3 on-site hotels. The percentage of park visitors staying on-site is much less than at Disney which has over 30,000 hotel rooms. They could find some system using hotels (as others have said, depending on where you're staying, etc.) but it couldn't just be "on-site guests- unlimited FP all day". That would result in chaos.

Not to mention that it's a bad idea in the first place. In the parks, I personally think everyone should be equal (day guests, GF guests, Pop guests, etc). I didn't really like the idea of evening EMH's for this reason, but at least it's just extra time where the park would have already been closed (instead of closing the park 3 hours early for it). Extra money to stay at better hotels should equate to the HOTEL. Isn't that what you're paying for? If you want to pay more to stay at Grand Floridian, you are rewarded with more services, more on-site dining locations, better pools, whatever...but as long as everyone is paying the same price for park admission, everyone should be treated equally AT THE PARK.

 

[CleveRocks]

I love FP, but I want to address a rumor going around for a bit now. How would people feel about a FP that had more options depending on the level of hotel you were staying at? Stay at a Deluxe, get more priviledges with FP. Everyone gets the basic still, however. This has been brought up by many people, and I am curious to see everyone's opinion. I would hate it personally, but that's just me....

The rumor comes and goes because of the FACT that several years ago, Disney obtained U.S. patents on the technology to make various levels of FASTPASS.

Just because they own the patents and have the opportunity doesn't mean they will put it to use. They haven't done it so far ....

 

[DisneyDragon]

and yes DisDragon....Disney hit the jackpot on park logisitics....so great that people are specialists such as yourself in this arena. Sure kills expectations for other theme parks I have encountered. Course the first time I waited in the long line for BTM to find another room and yet another area to wait I recognized their genius.....and the genius of GETTING A FAST PASS INSTEAD!!!

Thanks! It was watching the efficiency of the Disney parks as a kid and teen that was part of the reason I got into this line of business 12 years ago. I thought it so 'cabalistic' that there are people who specialize in something that is really what I call the 'science of common logic'.

When I saw the position of VP, Supply Chain Improvement appear on the Disney website, I fell out of my chair. This is exactly my area of specialty, but alas, years of experience and results+MBA+near-encyclopedic knowledge of all things Disney cannot overcome the hurdle that I am Canadian (and have no chance at the position). Crying shame, it is.

There's no mystery behind how Len Testa's group (with the Unofficial Guide) developed the touring guide and the impact of FastPass. It requires tons of actual data, modeled into an efficient problem space by smart and knowledgeable engineers, and validated through field tests. Problem is that it's beyond us, and hence, why having a recent copy is so valuable in saving time. And no, I don't work with them or am I a fanboy...the end touring plan is a work of art for a complex, yet closed problem space.

 

[mrtoad]

Your making my head hurt. :veryconfu

It is way beyond me and I am glad somebody else figures it all out... :lol:

Thanks! It was watching the efficiency of the Disney parks as a kid and teen that was part of the reason I got into this line of business 12 years ago. I thought it so 'cabalistic' that there are people who specialize in something that is really what I call the 'science of common logic'.

When I saw the position of VP, Supply Chain Improvement appear on the Disney website, I fell out of my chair. This is exactly my area of specialty, but alas, years of experience and results+MBA+near-encyclopedic knowledge of all things Disney cannot overcome the hurdle that I am Canadian (and have no chance at the position). Crying shame, it is.

There's no mystery behind how Len Testa's group (with the Unofficial Guide) developed the touring guide and the impact of FastPass. It requires tons of actual data, modeled into an efficient problem space by smart and knowledgeable engineers, and validated through field tests. Problem is that it's beyond us, and hence, why having a recent copy is so valuable in saving time. And no, I don't work with them or am I a fanboy...the end touring plan is a work of art for a complex, yet closed problem space.

 

[VillanovaBlue]

That was kind of the point I was trying to make. That it is not going to be 5% or something of the people. If anything, I would think that the number is around 3 out of 4 guests stay on property but that is a wild guess and I don't know any exact figures. In doing this then it will just cause both lines to become normal lines and slowing everything down. The CMs who need to feed in fast passers into the rest of the crowd will have a harder time doing this as it will be a much larger line than what is normally there as well as right now they only give out X amount of fast passes per hour. But with the proposed fastpass set up you could wind up having 10 times or more the amount of expected fast passers.

According to the attendance #'s for 2005 (from this link: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200512/2/), attendance for all 4 parks was 42.8 million guests, or about 117,000 a day...

If there are 20k hotel rooms on property, with an avg of 3 guests in each, that's 60k, or about 1/2 of the total days attendance, and that's if ALL the on-site guests go to a park that day...

So, it'd be about 50/50 on-site vs. off-site...not sure if that would cause that much of an issue giving the on-site guests unlimited fastpass; the real question is how many on-site guests use the current FP vs. off-site guests...and there's probably no real way to tell that...I don't think there would really be that much of an increase in the length of the FP lines, since there wouldn't be groups coming back at the "set times" as they do now...


Woo!!! 100 Posts!!!

 

[mrtoad]

According to the attendance #'s for 2005 (from this link: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200512/2/), attendance for all 4 parks was 42.8 million guests, or about 117,000 a day...

If there are 20k hotel rooms on property, with an avg of 3 guests in each, that's 60k, or about 1/2 of the total days attendance, and that's if ALL the on-site guests go to a park that day...

So, it'd be about 50/50 on-site vs. off-site...not sure if that would cause that much of an issue giving the on-site guests unlimited fastpass; the real question is how many on-site guests use the current FP vs. off-site guests...and there's probably no real way to tell that...I don't think there would really be that much of an increase in the length of the FP lines, since there wouldn't be groups coming back at the "set times" as they do now...

OK so even 50% is a lot though especially if you can't regulate how many per hour. Right now they are coming up with some sort or number, not sure how or what it is but they only give out so many FPs per hour. So if Splash Mountain is fairly busy and then all of a sudden 5 hugh tour groups come by at once and try to go at once to FP that are guests it will screw it all up.