FastPass Scanning Experiment?

[Uncle Lupe]

No system is perfect but this adds a layer to help a CM do their job.

 

[CarlFredricksen]

Not a chance. Would you really like to see someone go and complain to Guest Services because they got delayed getting back to the ride and the CM wouldn't let them use the FP? Either would Disney. The ticket is valid from the beginning to the end of the day. Changing that would be a stupid decision.

I agree with you. However, playing devil's advocate, another way to look at it if they did enforce the 1 hr time return, would be that they could give out more fast passes throughout the day. I'm sure how it is now, they have some calcualtion that something like 75% of the FP are used within the hour return time, and 25% are used after the return time. With the current system, you could theoretically have a FP line longer than the standby line later in the day if a bunch of people redeemed their FP at the same time, which Disney currently cannot control, or predict. So when the first timer hops into the FP line and it's 20m when standby is 15m, they aren't happy (neither would the 1,000 timer).

If Disney knew that 100% of the FP had be used within the hour, they would eliminate the largest variable involved in the system and have much more control of the system. This would allow them to keep the FP line at a consistent 5-10m all day, instead of 0-20, which is pretty close to what it is now on a busy day.

For example, if SM currently distributes 1,000 FP every hour, and the CM is lenient on the return time, 700 people could return in their alloted time, and two hours later the ride could have 1300 return, drastically altering the wait time. If they made it a hard return, they can maybe give 1,200 FP out every hour to keep the line consistent.

 

[Timekeeper]

For example, if SM currently distributes 1,000 FP every hour, and the CM is lenient on the return time, 700 people could return in their alloted time, and two hours later the ride could have 1300 return, drastically altering the wait time. If they made it a hard return, they can maybe give 1,200 FP out every hour to keep the line consistent.

Two obvious flaws with the above hypothetical:

First, it assumes that those who do not use the FP in the allotted 1 hour window of time will all return together as a group (of 300) two hours later. This would never happen, unless there is a single tour group of 300 people, all with FPs. The more realistic scenario is that those 300 people will be spread throughout the remainder of the day (with some not returning at all).

Second, the hypo also assumes that, two hours later, all 1,000 guests for that window of time will all return on time, creating the suggested 1,300 number. Again, the more realistic scenario is that, if 700 per 1,000 return on time, then that will "domino effect" throughout the day, leaving a margin of 300 "empty" spaces to be filled by guests coming in later than their allotted time.

Basically, the only way that the FP line would ever exceed the allocated FP distribution number for that attraction is if (1) everyone (or a majority of guests) for a particular hour returned on time and (2) a bulk of guests with earlier FPs just so happen to all decided to return during that same hour too. This is, statistically speaking, an unlikely scenario.

Disney lets guests come back late simply because, as stated above, so long as some guests come late throughout the day, the FP lines remain manageable at the intended numbers.

:brick:

 

[AREM]

Those are some very interesting points. I noticed they were doing this at BTM yesterday, so wanted to ask.

1. I have heard absolutely nothing about this.

2. I don't know which BTM you went to, but we are not scanning anything.......I work at BTM, and I can assure you, there has not been any scanning of FP yesterday, the day before that, or the day before that.

 

[David S.]

I agree with you. However, playing devil's advocate, another way to look at it if they did enforce the 1 hr time return, would be that they could give out more fast passes throughout the day. I'm sure how it is now, they have some calcualtion that something like 75% of the FP are used within the hour return time, and 25% are used after the return time. With the current system, you could theoretically have a FP line longer than the standby line later in the day if a bunch of people redeemed their FP at the same time, which Disney currently cannot control, or predict. So when the first timer hops into the FP line and it's 20m when standby is 15m, they aren't happy (neither would the 1,000 timer).

If Disney knew that 100% of the FP had be used within the hour, they would eliminate the largest variable involved in the system and have much more control of the system. This would allow them to keep the FP line at a consistent 5-10m all day, instead of 0-20, which is pretty close to what it is now on a busy day.

For example, if SM currently distributes 1,000 FP every hour, and the CM is lenient on the return time, 700 people could return in their alloted time, and two hours later the ride could have 1300 return, drastically altering the wait time. If they made it a hard return, they can maybe give 1,200 FP out every hour to keep the line consistent.

I don't think it would make much of a difference. Most people don't seem to know you can use them "late", and try to stick to the time. In my experience, a lot of the times I see the FP line backed up with a lot of "late" returnees, it's because a ride like Space Mountain had a few cascades during the day, or worse, an "E-stop".

In my case, when I use mine "late", it's usually for "encore" rides on favorites late in the evening (after I've done everything else I want to do at least once), at which time, the FP line is often a complete walk-on, and I'm actually putting LESS of a strain on the system by using them "late", than if I had used them in the one hour window printed on the ticket during the peak of the day, when there are MUCH longer lines in both the FP and standby queue.

Another thing to take into account in your formula is several FPs are not used at all! I find them on the ground quite often, and I myself don't always use every one I get. So if coming "late" during the peak of the day may occasionally back things up, this IMO is cancelled out by several others that COULD be in line but are not used at all! Plus those coming "late" are making the lines shorter during the time they are NOT there, yet.

So, to sum up, I don't think the people using them "late" are in such large numbers or are such a problem that it affects the number of FPs alloted for the day.

Personally, I LOVE the system exactly the way it is, and, as you said in your earlier post, the leniency with the second time printed on the ticket makes touring the parks much simpler, easier, and more spontaneous!

 

[Timekeeper]

...Lest we not forget, posted wait times (Stand-By and FastPass) are often inaccurate.

I if I had a FP for Jafar's Revenge at 3:00-4:00pm, and I got in line for Abu's Monkey Business at 3:15pm with a posted wait time of 20 minutes, but the wait time was really 40 minutes, in addition to ride duration, and I was turned away from Jafar's Revenge for arriving after 4:00pm, I would not be a happy camper.

Not to mention other delays that the average guests could never anticipate, such as parade congestion and blocking of paths and ability to cross streets, ride stoppage, etc.

:brick:

 

[DisneyBoi1215]

...Lest we not forget, posted wait times (Stand-By and FastPass) are often inaccurate.

I if I had a FP for Jafar's Revenge at 3:00-4:00pm, and I got in line for Abu's Monkey Business at 3:15pm with a posted wait time of 20 minutes, but the wait time was really 40 minutes, in addition to ride duration, and I was turned away from Jafar's Revenge for arriving after 4:00pm, I would not be a happy camper.

Not to mention other delays that the average guests could never anticipate, such as parade congestion and blocking of paths and ability to cross streets, ride stoppage, etc.

:brick:

I would like to think that WDW would make sure to honor FP's even after the time expires, if they were to make the scanning test a permanent feature at the attractions. However, I am pretty sure it wouldn't be as it would most likely cost additional labor to create an additional position at each attraction in charge of the scanning. To me, I am thinking that if the management feels like guests are trying to bend the rules by coming in too early (which I think the scanners are absolutely necessary to remind guests of said policy), then maybe they should reinforce the FP Return Policy with the CM's at the Return Line.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

I really don't think it's anything to get worked up over... I haven't been in nearly two years facepalm and I have seen CMs scanning FPs before. I don't remember specific rides (although I want to say Space Mt. ?), but I'm 99% sure I saw this in '08. So if at least two years of this hasn't led them to enforce the return window, I don't think it's gonna happen. I think they just want to know "this person is staying at BW, they got this FP at 10:22, then they put a churro on their KTTW at 10:25....."

 

[Timekeeper]

At one point, Disneyland had a program in place for guests staying at one of the three Disney hotels in which guests could obtain FPs for two attractions simultaneously (without having to wait 2 hours or for the window of time to open on the existing FP). I'm not sure if they still offer this, or if it's been done at WDW, but it was an enjoyable "perk" for paying the higher fees to stay on-property.

 

[CarlFredricksen]

Two obvious flaws with the above hypothetical:

First, it assumes that those who do not use the FP in the allotted 1 hour window of time will all return together as a group (of 300) two hours later. This would never happen, unless there is a single tour group of 300 people, all with FPs. The more realistic scenario is that those 300 people will be spread throughout the remainder of the day (with some not returning at all).

Second, the hypo also assumes that, two hours later, all 1,000 guests for that window of time will all return on time, creating the suggested 1,300 number. Again, the more realistic scenario is that, if 700 per 1,000 return on time, then that will "domino effect" throughout the day, leaving a margin of 300 "empty" spaces to be filled by guests coming in later than their allotted time.

Basically, the only way that the FP line would ever exceed the allocated FP distribution number for that attraction is if (1) everyone (or a majority of guests) for a particular hour returned on time and (2) a bulk of guests with earlier FPs just so happen to all decided to return during that same hour too. This is, statistically speaking, an unlikely scenario.

Disney lets guests come back late simply because, as stated above, so long as some guests come late throughout the day, the FP lines remain manageable at the intended numbers.

I recognize your point, however what I failed to state (b/c I didn't want to go into such detail) is that in the example I provided, I'm not suggesting all 300 ppl will come back at the exact same time, within the exact same hour. C'mon, give me some credit; I'm not that stupid! I already said I am playing devil’s advocate and I don't necessarily agree with what I am posting, however it's something to consider! Must I also state that I am using simple numbers to make things easy, and that I realize that 1,000 FP in an hour for SM isn't accurate??? I also realize return times are every 5m, not in hour blocks. This ain't my first rodeo.

Let's say the return time is between 2:00-3:00 and 1,000 FP are distributed for that time slot. Maybe 700 will come b/w 2-3, with 40 people showing around 4:00, 15 at 5:00, 5 at 6:00, 100 at 7:00, 40 people at 8:00, 100 people at 9:00. And that's just for the 1,000 FP with a scheduled return time b/w2-3. Maybe of the 1,000 FP with a return time between 1-2, 100 of them also return at 7:00. And of the scheduled 7-8 FP returns, maybe 900 return. Plus all the other times, you could have 1,200 ppl for a time only 1,000 were given out.

My whole point is that in the current system there is so much variable, and if Disney wanted to eliminate it, they very easily could.

The point that unused FP aren't considered in this equation doesn't matter. Whichever FP return system Disney uses, you will still have FP that are unused.

Scan-able barcodes as a prerequisite for a valid FP may not be the best idea for the simple fact that some guests will have valid FPs with a distorted barcode that cannot be scanned.

For example, FPs that are creased/folded, scratched, or wet from a water attraction may not generate an accurate scan. The problem with a barcode is that one simple blemish that prevents a complete laser scan will defeat the barcode altogether. Barcodes do not work on a premise that, if 90% of it is readable, then the computer can guess that last 10%.

Thus, to the extent that counterfeiting is a big enough of an issue to implement a change in the system, counterfeit tickets would simply be scratched, folded, or wet, to prevent scanning (thus eliminating the ability to determine its validity).

The "better" idea would be to simply generate a random character illustration for that particular day to appear on all fastpasses, or a number, or a letter/number combo, like "D7," etc. No one would know (including counterfeiters) what that image would be for any given day in advance.

...This is essentially what Pleasure Island did with the handstamps and wristbands back in the day. You would need to have collected one of each color wristband over time in order to have one that matched the color chosen for admission on any given night.

The short of it is, this isn’t an issue. Most peoples barcodes will still be in good enough condition to be scanned. For the 1/10 that can’t be scanned, underneath the barcode is a 6 digit number that can manually be entered at the station. And before someone suggests typing the numbers in will hold up the line, it won’t. The CM will politely ask them to step aside, until everyone else passes by, then in about 30 seconds when there is a ‘dead period’, the CM can take 10seconds to punch the numbers in before that persons FP is accepted.

 

[tizzo]

I dont get the centrilized fastpass theory - only because a machine could easily just print a name of the attraction

It's easy to print the name of the attraction, but that would make it more difficult for the CM to determine what attraction the FP was issued for. Only very slightly more difficult, granted - but try to put yourself in the CM's shoes. He or she is standing there for extended periods of time doing nothing but looking at FP tickets to see the return time, and at the same time verifying from the color of the stock that the FP is for the correct attraction. Take away the different stock for each attraction and now they have to read the name of the attraction in addition to the return time. And it might have to be more than a glance in some cases where attractions have similar looking names, like Space and Splash Mountains.

I was just saying that a scanner would allow them to make a change that eliminates the visually distinct ticket stock without any kind of negative human-factor effect on CMs.

 

[tizzo]

One potential problem I can see with this is that there are a lot of times I enter a FP queue, and, before giving my ticket to the SECOND person (who collects it), I realize the ride has gone down or the line is backed up. When this happens, I usually get out of the line, do something else, and come back later. Hopefully this "scanning" system wouldn't prevent people from exiting the queue once it's been scanned (for the reasons mentioned above) and returning later (with the system thinking it's been "used" even though it hasn't!) The whole point of FP, is, after all, to SAVE time, not hang around indefinately waiting for a ride to come back up when it's down!

Hopefully they'll take that into account. It's certainly not insurmountable. For example, they could scan it only once, at the point where you would turn it over. Or they could scan it twice, with only the scan at the collection point marking the ticket's ID as having been "used". Good point though.

 

[durangojim]

I remember them scanning passes a year or two ago and the same questions arouse about people showing up "late". Nothing ever came of it and most people here thought that it had more to do with collecting data regarding what time people came back to use the FP regardless of what times were shown on the FP.

 

[mp2bill]

Probably all the fraudulent FP's that are out there...

Probably.