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Every City Needs a Monorail
- Thread starter karlbeau
- Start date
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
Passenger rail service is notoriously expensive and it always has to be subsidized. Public systems are subsidized by taxpayers while private systems such as the WDW monorail are subsidized by high ticket prices. It’s no coincidence that WDW ticket prices have increased over six times higher than the normal rate of inflation. In the near future WDW needs to shut down the monorail and outsource the bus system to save money and make the transportation system more efficient and responsive. They are clearly moving in that direction.
The Governor of Florida just stopped the high speed train that was designed to bring guests to WDW. The public is not going to continue to pay the bills for problems created by WDW. :wave:
The Governor of Florida just stopped the high speed train that was designed to bring guests to WDW. The public is not going to continue to pay the bills for problems created by WDW. :wave:
JafarMaleficent
Active Member
OK our governor didn't pass the bill for a high speed rail because he didn't want yo take festal bailout money. It was supposed to have stops in Orlando and Tampa with the possibility of adding wdw and uni and also Miami and Jax. It was not designed just to bring guests wdw.
And, I'm still foggy as to what HSR in Florida has to do with the monorail line(s) at WDW, which are long-established and paid for by private monies. To say nothing of the fact that they efficiently shuttle people around an enclosed and dedicated area. But, keep trying.....:wave:
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Yeah...I'm still waiting on some facts to back up his assertions.
JafarMaleficent
Active Member
Ok I just want to point out I have no affilation with clever name. I was just telling him the facts on why fl. Gov said no to a high speed rail. It wasn't even a monorail.
pumpkin7
Well-Known Member
we used to have a monorail here in sunny birmingham in the united kingdom. it ran around a shopping centre and was designed pretty much like the disney monorails. stupid to think that the 'black country' (not racist btw, black country, aka dudley, was named because of the coal mining period where the sky would turn black from the coal and soot. think 'step in time' and you get the idea lol) could have a monorail. unfortunately they shut it down many years ago now because it was too expensive to run, although the station is still in the shopping centre. i used to love riding it. now i have to go all the way to disney to ride a monorail, but i don't think you can beat the disney monorail.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
All types of passenger rail service suffer from the same problem in that they are grossly inefficient and cost a small fortune to operate. High speed rail, subway systems and the WDW monorail are not at all competitive with the same routes as bus service. More importantly, no passenger rail service is financially viable. They all require heavy subsidies to operate. As I had explained previously, WDW ticket prices have outpaced inflation not because of company greed, but rather because of the ever increasing costs of the monorail operation.
The other big problem is that the current monorail line at WDW is outmoded. The old Transportation and Ticket Center (TTC) is no longer needed and it serves as a bottleneck for egress to the Magic Kingdom. The longest leg of the monorail only goes to EPCOT and it moves at a snails pace. The maximum capacity of each monorail is only 360 people. The monorail is really just another very expensive attraction. It only serves EPCOT, Magic Kingdom and the monorail resorts. It doesn’t serve the vast majority of WDW and it is not feasible that it will be expanded.
It’s time for WDW to cut costs by closing down the monorail and outsourcing the entire transportation system. They’ve had good results with the current partial outsourcing of the bus system. Also, the Reedy Creek Improvement District has no absolutely no plans to expand the monorail system. If it were so darn efficient, that would be a top priority now in the face of the third year in a row of steep declines in WDW visitation.
The other big problem is that the current monorail line at WDW is outmoded. The old Transportation and Ticket Center (TTC) is no longer needed and it serves as a bottleneck for egress to the Magic Kingdom. The longest leg of the monorail only goes to EPCOT and it moves at a snails pace. The maximum capacity of each monorail is only 360 people. The monorail is really just another very expensive attraction. It only serves EPCOT, Magic Kingdom and the monorail resorts. It doesn’t serve the vast majority of WDW and it is not feasible that it will be expanded.
It’s time for WDW to cut costs by closing down the monorail and outsourcing the entire transportation system. They’ve had good results with the current partial outsourcing of the bus system. Also, the Reedy Creek Improvement District has no absolutely no plans to expand the monorail system. If it were so darn efficient, that would be a top priority now in the face of the third year in a row of steep declines in WDW visitation.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
edit
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
What a TERRIBLE idea that is.
And why all the extra HTML formatting? Is that some hidden proof? Do I find the FACTS in the formatting?
I'm still waiting on some facts to back up your assertions that the monorail is the reason ticket prices have increased. They certainly aren't paying the monorail employees too much, nor maintenance too much. FACTS....we need facts. The monorail is not using anymore power than it ever has....so what is it?
GenerationX
Well-Known Member
No, WDW ticket prices have outpaced inflation because of the huge costs of creating ice and snow everyday for the ski hills at Blizzard Beach.
What a TERRIBLE idea that is.
And why all the extra HTML formatting? Is that some hidden proof? Do I find the FACTS in the formatting?
I'm still waiting on some facts to back up your assertions that the monorail is the reason ticket prices have increased. They certainly aren't paying the monorail employees too much, nor maintenance too much. FACTS....we need facts. The monorail is not using anymore power than it ever has....so what is it?
You've heard of Sisyphus right? You rolling that boulder up the hill hoping for facts from him.....
Bulldog1653
Active Member
Clever Name has some very interesting points but is COMPLETELY wrong.
Outsourcing the bus system was and still is a mistake, in my opinion. The reason ticket prices are high is partially because of the ridiculous fuel costs.
Monorails operate on electricity, not diesel fuel. The envrionmental impact they have is beyond minimal. Here's something to consider; as traffic increases, roads get jammed up and they need to be widened, causing further environmental impacts such as increased pollution and noise. While I am not an environmentalist, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the impact of the monorail is considerably less.
Money pit? I don't think so. One monorail train carries up to 365 passengers as opposed to one bus carrying 65-70 people.
The monorail system is anything but obsolete. In fact, I think it's one of the better transportation systems out there. While it is true that the construction can be expensive, it's considerably less than building a large highway or maintaining a huge bus fleet.
While it's doubtful that Disney will be expanding it's monorail operations in Florida within the next 5 years, it's no secret that the benefits would be beyond welcome. Think about it for a minute; if there were monorails to the various hotels and Downtown Disney, you would see a HUGE difference on the roads and reduce some of the traffic jams.
In 2008, I took my family to DisneyWorld, staying at Port Orleans Riverside. The hotel itself was wonderful but I was extremely dissappointed in the bus system. It seemed to me that they ran on their own schedule and arrived when they felt like it.
The TTC (Transportation and Ticket Center) was mentioned as being old and outdated. Again, I disagree. If the monorail was to be expanded, the TTC could also be expanded as a central hub. The current EPCOT beam could be expanded to include stops at the EPCOT resort area and Hollywood Studios. The Magic Kingdom beams would be left alone. A fourth beam could service Animal Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom Lodge. The fifth beam could handle the water parks, the value resorts and Downtown Disney.
Granted, these are my opinions, but I honestly think that an expansion would be extremely beneficial for not only Disney, but for guests as well.
Outsourcing the bus system was and still is a mistake, in my opinion. The reason ticket prices are high is partially because of the ridiculous fuel costs.
Monorails operate on electricity, not diesel fuel. The envrionmental impact they have is beyond minimal. Here's something to consider; as traffic increases, roads get jammed up and they need to be widened, causing further environmental impacts such as increased pollution and noise. While I am not an environmentalist, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the impact of the monorail is considerably less.
Money pit? I don't think so. One monorail train carries up to 365 passengers as opposed to one bus carrying 65-70 people.
The monorail system is anything but obsolete. In fact, I think it's one of the better transportation systems out there. While it is true that the construction can be expensive, it's considerably less than building a large highway or maintaining a huge bus fleet.
While it's doubtful that Disney will be expanding it's monorail operations in Florida within the next 5 years, it's no secret that the benefits would be beyond welcome. Think about it for a minute; if there were monorails to the various hotels and Downtown Disney, you would see a HUGE difference on the roads and reduce some of the traffic jams.
In 2008, I took my family to DisneyWorld, staying at Port Orleans Riverside. The hotel itself was wonderful but I was extremely dissappointed in the bus system. It seemed to me that they ran on their own schedule and arrived when they felt like it.
The TTC (Transportation and Ticket Center) was mentioned as being old and outdated. Again, I disagree. If the monorail was to be expanded, the TTC could also be expanded as a central hub. The current EPCOT beam could be expanded to include stops at the EPCOT resort area and Hollywood Studios. The Magic Kingdom beams would be left alone. A fourth beam could service Animal Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom Lodge. The fifth beam could handle the water parks, the value resorts and Downtown Disney.
Granted, these are my opinions, but I honestly think that an expansion would be extremely beneficial for not only Disney, but for guests as well.
Bulldog1653
Active Member
As a follow up to my previous post, I think that a monorail system would be very beneficial here in Colorado. Denver has a lightrail system in place already but a monorail line could work as transportation between cities and possibly to ski resorts.
If a monorail line was built in the mountains, the beams and their supports would have a minimal impact opposed to standard railroads. With a railroad, you would have to do a lot of blasting to make room for tracks. With a monorail beam, you would have to build a small pad for the supports and in some cases cut some trees out to keep the line clear.
As far as running between cities, it would be very easy to build a line to run between Denver, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo. Both monorail lines between cities and into the mountains (to the ski resorts, etc) could not only function as a transportation system, but it would also work as a tourist attraction for people interested in a scenic ride. The mountains here are amazing and the scenery is breathtaking.
If a monorail line was built in the mountains, the beams and their supports would have a minimal impact opposed to standard railroads. With a railroad, you would have to do a lot of blasting to make room for tracks. With a monorail beam, you would have to build a small pad for the supports and in some cases cut some trees out to keep the line clear.
As far as running between cities, it would be very easy to build a line to run between Denver, Colorado Springs, and Pueblo. Both monorail lines between cities and into the mountains (to the ski resorts, etc) could not only function as a transportation system, but it would also work as a tourist attraction for people interested in a scenic ride. The mountains here are amazing and the scenery is breathtaking.
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Hello all, if I've posted here it has been well over a year. I can't even remember! :lol:
Anyway, I am a bit of a monorail nut, and after doing some quick forum searching on previous monorail discussions and thinking about this particular one, there are a few things that it seems many are forgetting (or at least not mentioning) when it comes to monorails at Disney in particular.
Everyone here is probably aware that Disney - through legislative manipulation - is for all simplistic intents and purposes, its own city/county entity via its governmental arm, the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Which leads me to a point I think a lot of people overlook when discussing transportation issues, specifically about monorail/bus system expansions and improvements. Because of their governmental designation, funding for many issues/improvements actually comes from the trading of government bonds, and Reedy Creek is able to apply for (and several times in the past has won) federal and state grant money for transportation, housing, etc. This is how the Osceola Parkway/I-4 interchange was funded, how Celebration was started, and in fact, is how the whole operation got off the ground in the first place (believe it or not, the initial construction work was funded in no small part by grants, bonds, and other governmental means).
All of this is to say that, if RCID (through Disney) were not worried about ruffling governmental feathers again, it is entirely possible that given the right conditions, funding for transportation projects can be had in no small amounts. The only major thing holding them back now is that the cat has long been out of the bag that Disney (neither Walt nor the company, sorry to spoil the cheery outlook some have on the original project) never truly intended for the Florida Project to be a true city in the sense of a revolutionary Orlando or Tampa, and as such, applications for public funds would fall under intense scrutiny and criticism.
If you would like a more in-depth look at the city planning aspect of the Florida Project and things such as governmental relations with Orange and Osceola Counties, "Married to the Mouse" is a marvelous book. Be forewarned, though; if you wish to maintain the magic about certain parts of the Florida Project (such that it was ever truly intended to be a city in any real sense of the word), it may not be an enjoyable book. It is, however, highly informative and will allow you to look at some of the resort expansions in a new way.
------------------------------------------------------
On the city monorail discussion, I never knew Indy had a monorail type system! I will definitely have to do some more exploring the next time I am down there. I personally love the NYC subway system, and am generally a "first glance" proponent of rail-based mass transit in all of its variations. Though the move got killed, the Florida Light Rail project was of interest to me, as is any proposed system here in the Midwest involving the Rust Belt area.
Anyway, I am a bit of a monorail nut, and after doing some quick forum searching on previous monorail discussions and thinking about this particular one, there are a few things that it seems many are forgetting (or at least not mentioning) when it comes to monorails at Disney in particular.
Everyone here is probably aware that Disney - through legislative manipulation - is for all simplistic intents and purposes, its own city/county entity via its governmental arm, the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Which leads me to a point I think a lot of people overlook when discussing transportation issues, specifically about monorail/bus system expansions and improvements. Because of their governmental designation, funding for many issues/improvements actually comes from the trading of government bonds, and Reedy Creek is able to apply for (and several times in the past has won) federal and state grant money for transportation, housing, etc. This is how the Osceola Parkway/I-4 interchange was funded, how Celebration was started, and in fact, is how the whole operation got off the ground in the first place (believe it or not, the initial construction work was funded in no small part by grants, bonds, and other governmental means).
All of this is to say that, if RCID (through Disney) were not worried about ruffling governmental feathers again, it is entirely possible that given the right conditions, funding for transportation projects can be had in no small amounts. The only major thing holding them back now is that the cat has long been out of the bag that Disney (neither Walt nor the company, sorry to spoil the cheery outlook some have on the original project) never truly intended for the Florida Project to be a true city in the sense of a revolutionary Orlando or Tampa, and as such, applications for public funds would fall under intense scrutiny and criticism.
If you would like a more in-depth look at the city planning aspect of the Florida Project and things such as governmental relations with Orange and Osceola Counties, "Married to the Mouse" is a marvelous book. Be forewarned, though; if you wish to maintain the magic about certain parts of the Florida Project (such that it was ever truly intended to be a city in any real sense of the word), it may not be an enjoyable book. It is, however, highly informative and will allow you to look at some of the resort expansions in a new way.
------------------------------------------------------
On the city monorail discussion, I never knew Indy had a monorail type system! I will definitely have to do some more exploring the next time I am down there. I personally love the NYC subway system, and am generally a "first glance" proponent of rail-based mass transit in all of its variations. Though the move got killed, the Florida Light Rail project was of interest to me, as is any proposed system here in the Midwest involving the Rust Belt area.