News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous

[Brian]

FWIW, I've watched the show at least 10 times now and each time during the 'Loss' segment, there's at least one person, usually several, with misty eyes. Of course, modern Disney has to appeal to the lowest common denominator, so because the kids get bored during that less than two minute segment, something beautiful which adults like has to be removed.

 

[MatheusPG]

As of today:
View attachment 781229

IllumiNations remains EPCOT's highest-rated nighttime show. For teens, young adults, adults, and seniors, it's not that close. (The confidence interval for Luminous for seniors is too large to say anything definitive yet.)

EPCOT Forever seems likely to go down in history as the park's lowest-rated nighttime show. And it was an interim show, so that's understandable.

Harmonious did well with kids. And that was one of its goals, so it accomplished that.

If I'm Disney, the Luminous numbers I'd be concerned with are the relatively low ratings by young adults and the over-30 group. Those are closer to the bottom than the top.

More importantly, those two age groups are the largest and tend to make most of the the park and spending decisions.

I remember that when many others and I said that the show was really repetitive in relation to other WDW shows, lacked imagination, had too many expositions, and made the same mistakes that Harmonious did (storywise), we kept being replied that the show was popular and well-received by audiences, just because these same people saw a few families with smiles on their faces. This was a failure in the making. Epcot should always have a mature and original show, not just a worse version of the great Happily Ever After...

 

[ToTBellHop]

I remember that when many others and I said that the show was really repetitive in relation to other WDW shows, lacked imagination, had too many expositions, and made the same mistakes that Harmonious did (storywise), we kept being replied that the show was popular and well-received by audiences, just because these same people saw a few families with smiles on their faces. This was a failure in the making. Epcot should always have a mature and original show, not just a worse version of the great Happily Ever After...

That’s a bit much. It’s not a failure by any measure and it won’t be yanked out like Harm. Room for improvement? Sure. And that’s been a narrative around here since December.

 

[lentesta]

That’s a bit much. It’s not a failure by any measure and it won’t be yanked out like Harm. Room for improvement? Sure. And that’s been a narrative around here since December.

Well said.

 

[monothingie]

That’s a bit much. It’s not a failure by any measure and it won’t be yanked out like Harm. Room for improvement? Sure. And that’s been a narrative around here since December.

It's good enough for now. We'll retool when it starts becoming a drag on Food/Beverage/Merch profitability.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It's good enough for now. We'll retool when it starts becoming a drag on Food/Beverage/Merch profitability.

They have to be happy that the barges are impressive and versatile. The amount of money they lost by destroying the tacos and Stargate is jaw-dropping.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I remember that when many others and I said that the show was really repetitive in relation to other WDW shows, lacked imagination, had too many expositions, and made the same mistakes that Harmonious did (storywise), we kept being replied that the show was popular and well-received by audiences, just because these same people saw a few families with smiles on their faces. This was a failure in the making. Epcot should always have a mature and original show, not just a worse version of the great Happily Ever After...

You're reading too much in to the scores. Len uses a 5 point system which -- like any other scoring system -- has its advantages (it's simplicity) and disadvantages (lack of fine distinctions).

A 5 point system is like a 100 point system, but you tell people you can only choose: 20, 40, 60, 80, or 100. No 90s, no 70s, etc...

And so anything that is relatively good gets a score of mostly 4s (80s) or some 5s (100s). That means for all the good attractions, their scores will cluster in the range of 4.00 to 4.30.

If we were to take the scores that Len gives and inflate them to a 100 point system, it would be:

Show	5 Point Score	100 point score
IllumiNations: RoE	4.31​	86.2​
Luminous: tSoU	4.18​	83.6​
Harmonious	4.12​	82.4​
EPCOT Forever	3.97​	79.4​

Everyone's favorite and gold standard, RoE, only gets an 86.2 on a inflated 100 point scale.

I'm sure if people were able to give it scores above 80 (4 on a 5 point scale) without committing to 100 (5 on a 5 point scale), it would score much higher.

The other indicator of popularity is whether people are staying in the park to see it over and over again, or, if it was a one and done.

For, me, EF and H.us were one and done. And insiders were telling of how Disney and the EPCOT restaurants were not happy that that was the case for a lot of people and the number of guests staying for the fireworks were fewer and fewer. But, they also have said that tSoU has turned that around.

And in the end, that extra crowd that buys merch and makes use of the restaurants and food kiosks is what counts for Disney... and is a sign of tSoU's greater popularity than H.us.

 

[Disney Analyst]

The only complaint I saw online from my age group is they missed the "party vibes" Epcot had with Harmonious, and that the loss segment was a real "downer". The show isn't as upbeat and "dancey".

Frankly, I wouldn't trust their taste if that is how they feel, and it goes into a larger trend of my generation seeing Epcot as a party spot. Don't get me wrong, I love the vibes also, let's get a drink - but Disney is hitting the right notes with Luminous, of course it could use tweaking, but this show feels far more Epcot than Harmonious.

But it seems my generation, based on feedback online and survey data, would just rather they bring Harmonious back, so they can continue the party vibes, no thanks. It's okay for a show to put you into an uncomfortable emotional space, for a brief moment, even in a Disney park.

 

[pigglewiggle]

The only complaint I saw online from my age group is they missed the "party vibes" Epcot had with Harmonious, and that the loss segment was a real "downer". The show isn't as upbeat and "dancey".

Frankly, I wouldn't trust their taste if that is how they feel, and it goes into a larger trend of my generation seeing Epcot as a party spot. Don't get me wrong, I love the vibes also, let's get a drink - but Disney is hitting the right notes with Luminous, of course it could use tweaking, but this show feels far more Epcot than Harmonious.

But it seems my generation, based on feedback online and survey data, would just rather they bring Harmonious back, so they can continue the party vibes, no thanks. It's okay for a show to put you into an uncomfortable emotional space, for a brief moment, even in a Disney park.

As you age, everything will make you cry. At this point I just need to hear the sound of the Friendship boat horns and my throat tightens, thinking of my parents when they were younger.

Ah, life. It's a downer.

 

[trainplane3]

They have to be happy that the barges are impressive and versatile. The amount of money they lost by destroying the tacos and Stargate is jaw-dropping.

Once they realized they couldn't move them, the project should've been halted and re-evaluated. Money should've been shifted to marina expansion and China bridge expansion (due to the unwieldy size of the new barges). I feel bad for those involved but it was doomed once that was announced.

And the fact the show was basically watching a TV screen for 20 minutes with lacking pyro and barely noticeable fountains.

 

[Squishy]

Once they realized they couldn't move them, the project should've been halted and re-evaluated. Money should've been shifted to marina expansion and China bridge expansion (due to the unwieldy size of the new barges). I feel bad for those involved but it was doomed once that was announced.

And the fact the show was basically watching a TV screen for 20 minutes with lacking pyro and barely noticeable fountains.

Lacking pyro it did not have. It pretty much was pyro constantly unlike Illuminations & Luminous.

 

[gerarar]

The only complaint I saw online from my age group is they missed the "party vibes" Epcot had with Harmonious, and that the loss segment was a real "downer". The show isn't as upbeat and "dancey".

Frankly, I wouldn't trust their taste if that is how they feel, and it goes into a larger trend of my generation seeing Epcot as a party spot. Don't get me wrong, I love the vibes also, let's get a drink - but Disney is hitting the right notes with Luminous, of course it could use tweaking, but this show feels far more Epcot than Harmonious.

But it seems my generation, based on feedback online and survey data, would just rather they bring Harmonious back, so they can continue the party vibes, no thanks. It's okay for a show to put you into an uncomfortable emotional space, for a brief moment, even in a Disney park.

Hey maybe that's why DL keeps bring back Mickeys Mix Magic for the party vibe....

...ugh

A lot of those Luminous Day 1 reaction videos where the main criticism was lack of likeable upbeat party-like songs and such, turned it off immediately lol.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Hey maybe that's why DL keeps bring back Mickeys Mix Magic for the party vibe....

...ugh

A lot of those Luminous Day 1 reaction videos where the main criticism was lack of likeable upbeat party-like songs and such, turned it off immediately lol.

I think we saw the same videos.

People were upset that they were partying and drinking all night, and that this show was thoughtful and emotional, and interrupted their "vibes".

Meh.

 

[Brian]

I think we saw the same videos.

People were upset that they were partying and drinking all night, and that this show was thoughtful and emotional, and interrupted their "vibes".

Meh.

Hard to feel sympathy for their position.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Hard to feel sympathy for their position.

One of those times we do agree, and I am not saying they are not untitled to their opinion or preference, I just don't think it's a preference the artistic team should regard.

 

[DisneyDean97]

I really like Luminous opening and finale. As long as they keep those, I don't care how they rework the middle.

 

[James Alucobond]

I agree that they shouldn’t cave to the party crowd and completely remove the loss segment, but I do think it’s musically one of the weakest parts (along with Friend Like Me and the short chunk of Can You Feel the Love Tonight).

I think they should adjust the messaging a bit to still be about loss, but more broadly about meetings, partings, and the constancy of change. Then just shove in a rendition of Dos Oruguitas.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I agree that they shouldn’t cave to the party crowd and completely remove the loss segment, but I do think it’s musically one of the weakest parts (along with Friend Like Me and the short chunk of Can You Feel the Love Tonight).

I think they should adjust the messaging a bit to still be about loss, but more broadly about meetings, partings, and the constancy of change. Then just shove in a rendition of Dos Oruguitas.

I think that would help in lieu of such an overt reference to death.

Plus, I’ve been Toy Storied to death…

 

[MisterPenguin]

Needs more Party Rock Anthem.

 

[TTA94]

Maybe USOs new nighttime show will be more “fun” and “party like” lol, so that group can go there.