Epcot is kind of a hot mess right now....

[BoarderPhreak]

EPCOT Center was and still is my favorite park, despite the rampant decline of just about everything. The good news is that it's seeing more attention now than it has in absolute ages. Let's revisit when the dust settles.

As for DHS, until SWGE opens, I have little interest in the park. After that, all bets are off. But here too, Disney is on a spree.

Building/refurbs/expansion = all good things (generally).

 

[erasure fan1]

I was referring to negative comments about Epcot and DHS in this particular thread, not the forum as a whole. I’m not against criticizing Disney when it’s deserved; but it seems silly for someone to blatantly dislike half of the parks or half of the rides at the resort when they’re spending thousands of dollars to be there.

I would say that the criticism with epcot now is 100% deserved. It is only silly if people are walking around the parks complaining about this stuff. But since we are on a discussion forum, it is perfectly fine to point out what you dislike. Of course a lot of the people complaining might not be paying thousands, because they might not be going. I was every year, except 2, for over 20yrs. Haven't been for over 4yrs.

 

[bryanfze55]

I would say that the criticism with epcot now is 100% deserved. It is only silly if people are walking around the parks complaining about this stuff. But since we are on a discussion forum, it is perfectly fine to point out what you dislike. Of course a lot of the people complaining might not be paying thousands, because they might not be going. I was every year, except 2, for over 20yrs. Haven't been for over 4yrs.

Your last point is certainly fair. But I just don’t see where the criticism of Epcot is valid. I was never there to ride Horizons, World of Motion, Journey 1.0, or even Test Track 1.0... consensus seems to be that it was better back then. The Epcot I was first introduced to is the Epcot that exists today, and I still loved it. In any event, Disney is now putting the money in to fix up the park.

 

[erasure fan1]

Valid is a subjective word. It's great you love epcot as is, so it's not valid to you. I was there for original epcot and for me the criticism is valid. Even if I loved every ride I would still think that the park feeling disjointed was valid.

 

[bUU]

Valid is a subjective word.

Actually, "valid" and "invalid" are properly words used to describe objective assertions:

• "I dislike something." - that's a subjective claim (so validity is irrelevant - a subjective claim is indisputable by default; the kids these days refer to this by saying, "You do you.")
• "Something is bad." - that's an objective claim (and as such is not valid by itself; it's a conclusion without premises)
• "I dislike something so therefore that something is bad." - that's an invalid argument (because it is possible for the premise to be true and the conclusion to be false)

A statement is valid if and only if it takes a form that makes it impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion nevertheless to be false.

 

[Raineman]

Actually, "valid" and "invalid" are properly words used to describe objective assertions:

• "I dislike something." - that's a subjective claim (so validity is irrelevant - a subjective claim is indisputable by default; the kids these days refer to this by saying, "You do you.")
• "Something is bad." - that's an objective claim (and as such is not valid by itself; it's a conclusion without premises)
• "I dislike something so therefore that something is bad." - that's an invalid argument (because it is possible for the premise to be true and the conclusion to be false)

A statement is valid if and only if it takes a form that makes it impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion nevertheless to be false.

Stop it. Logic and reason are not welcome here.

 

[erasure fan1]

Actually, "valid" and "invalid" are properly words used to describe objective assertions:

• "I dislike something." - that's a subjective claim (so validity is irrelevant - a subjective claim is indisputable by default; the kids these days refer to this by saying, "You do you.")
• "Something is bad." - that's an objective claim (and as such is not valid by itself; it's a conclusion without premises)
• "I dislike something so therefore that something is bad." - that's an invalid argument (because it is possible for the premise to be true and the conclusion to be false)

A statement is valid if and only if it takes a form that makes it impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion nevertheless to be false.

Sorry, me not smart like you. Thanks for learning me stuff.

In other news, epcot is still a disjointed mess thematically. In my subjectively valid opinion.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Sorry, me not smart like you. Thanks for learning me stuff.

In other news, epcot is still a disjointed mess thematically. In my subjectively valid opinion.

To get around classical logicians, replace "valid" -- which has strict definitions -- with "cogent", which is their way of saying, "you make a good point regardless of logical validity."

A very cogent argument can be made for Epcot's Future World to be a thematic mess.

To get to "valid" you need to assert and define criteria everyone can agree upon. Good luck with the definition!

 

[FettFan]

Why is it a bad thing to be critical of a place we love? Not everything has to be pixie dust and magic all the time. If this kind of healthy dual vision is too jarring for you, perhaps you need to find another site that more aligns with your interests.

Especially with the cost both in money and time for a Disney vacation.

 

[bUU]

To get around classical logicians, replace "valid" -- which has strict definitions -- with "cogent", which is their way of saying, "you make a good point regardless of logical validity."

Or just keep a healthy distinction in your mind between what you dislike and whether or not something is wrong.

 

[Twirlnhurl]

Not only have the boats at Living with the Land always been connected since 1982, you can even see film footage of the boats connected in the background of one of the scenes in the film loop showing in the room just before the greenhouses. You can even see the on-board narrator from before when the ride got an automated speil.

Epcot definitely has thematic problems, and it sort of adds up to a mess of themes when you spend all day there. If I were king of Disney World, I might not make all the same decisions that the current management has made. But, even if it is less than it could be, it is still a great park with fun rides.

 

[KikoKea]

Also the dawn of time projection issue in SSE has been known about by the park since last year.

Oh, thank goodness!! DH and I can barely see figures in that scene and simply figured our old eyes were steadily getting worse as we got older. Whew!

 

[Gelatoni]

This is only the start, Epcot saw Hollywood studios getting gutted and was like "hold my beer"

 

[bUU]

Not only have the boats at Living with the Land always been connected since 1982, you can even see film footage of the boats connected in the background of one of the scenes in the film loop showing in the room just before the greenhouses. You can even see the on-board narrator from before when the ride got an automated speil.

And it is the replacement of the on-board narrator that some people hate on the most, but they won't acknowledge how much easier it is to hear the recorded narration especially for those with hearing deficiencies.

This is only the start, Epcot saw Hollywood studios getting gutted and was like "hold my beer"

And remember, Fantasyland said it first, and look how that worked out.

 

[Heppenheimer]

And it is the replacement of the on-board narrator that some people hate on the most, but they won't acknowledge how much easier it is to hear the recorded narration especially for those with hearing deficiencies.

And remember, Fantasyland said it first, and look how that worked out.

The live narration on Living with the Land was done over an on-board sound system, so hearing it wasn't usually the problem. But sometimes you were at the mercy of the guide's delivery, which wasn't always well enunciated.

I for one am looking forward to the changes coming to Epcot... just as long as it doesn't become a super hero park. If that ever comes to pass, my interest died immediately.

 

[bUU]

The live narration on Living with the Land was done over an on-board sound system, so hearing it wasn't usually the problem. But sometimes you were at the mercy of the guide's delivery, which wasn't always well enunciated.

So hearing the live narration was usually a problem.

What is the nature of your hearing impairment? I'm sure you, as a hearing-impaired person, know that the problems we have with hearing differ based on what kind of hearing impairment we have.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Does anybody here actually go to the parks and just enjoy them, or...?

All I see is negative comments about Epcot and HS. While I totally agree those parks could use more attractions, I can’t imagine spending so much money visit after visit if you don’t really enjoy the parks.

There’s still very few places like Epcot. World Showcase is one of the most thematically coherent areas in any Disney Park, even with the presence of Frozen. Future World is the lesser area, but it still has some great rides. Plus, the park is just beautiful.

In short, no, Epcot is not a problem.

So be grateful for what you get, sheeple!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And remember, Fantasyland said it first, and look how that worked out.

What are you implying here?

 

[Heppenheimer]

So hearing the live narration was usually a problem.

What is the nature of your hearing impairment? I'm sure you, as a hearing-impaired person, know that the problems we have with hearing differ based on what kind of hearing impairment we have.

I'm not hearing impaired. I meant that sometimes the delivery of the spiel was garbled and you couldn't understand the words. Actually hearing the sound of their voice was not the problem, it was understanding what was said.

And I should point out this was not always the case. Some of the guides enunciated very clearly.

 

[bUU]

What are you implying here?

That gutting portions of parks and building new attractions like the Mine Train can result in excellent new experiences.

I'm not hearing impaired. I meant that sometimes the delivery of the spiel was garbled and you couldn't understand the words. Actually hearing the sound of their voice was not the problem, it was understanding what was said.

As someone who struggles with hearing impairment everyday, I assure you there is little effective difference. Most older Americans have some type and level of hearing impairment, and so the more narration is shifted from the random vagaries of the voice of whichever 20something CM who happens to come up that time to the voice of someone who was hired because their voice is easy for a variety of people to understand the better. This is not only a problem for those who are hearing impaired. Disney gets a lot of guests from other countries who struggle a bit to understand English as their second language; mumbled narration is as much a problem for them as for those who are hearing impaired.

I think an argument could be made to keep CM narration aboard Jungle Cruise boats, but just barely. Other than that, I'd rather see attractions designed from the outset or retrofitted so as to rely on professional narration.