Eliminating some Florida resident annual passes?

[Kenny Hensley]

I think this is a tiny fraction of park guests. I mean just make a concerted effort to find somebody eating pb&j and than compare that to everyone eating food and beverage sales. Is it a thing? Of course. Is it some large profit consuming epidemic of course not. But than again this is the company that had to put rfid chips in cups because everyone was sticking it to the man. There is deff this connotation that us locals just go take space and spend absolutely nothing more than the cost of the AP. Look im very middle class and i go almost every weekend and they yank 100 bucks per visit IF i make an effort to not spend much. I have had quick serve lunch bills at 80 bucks before.

FL Resident here, with Silver passes.

I'm damn sure not getting a break for my 10 day stay on site.

Freeloader my backside of water!

 

[markc]

Bolded that for you. I use both credit and cash, so it's not accurate. EDIT: Also we get a lot of those lovely Disney gift cards. I would also guess that there are certain restrictions in terms of what they can do with credit information.

For the most part, cash (on average) is typically used for smaller purchases by guests...obviously that's not 100% true for all cases, but statistics show it's a safe assumption when doing analysis to come up with some numbers. Credit Cards tell a fairly coherent story when trying to match up spending habits.

There are also no restrictions on credit information that stop Disney from aggregating spend by consumer when you use your credit/debit card. Sure - they dont have your social security number or credit score, but by you using your credit card, you are giving any merchant the ability to know your name and zip. That's enough information to correlate spending by specific guest. Also, if you've ever used that same credit card to purchase something on shopdisney.com or book a hotel room with them, then they have even more information on you (address, e-mail, phone, etc).

 

[Vacationeer]

I don't believe that Disney has an accurate record of spending by specific guests. They might on a few, but I haven't had a new magic band for a couple years now. I mean, I have because I've stayed at the hotels, but I still use my old one for the parks. So, I don't get my pictures on some rides like Frozen Ever After (I know, missing out on a lot there with those lovely steps). I don't think they really care how many food carts you shop at or if you enjoy your meal at Electric Umbrella.

They likely focus more on the big spenders who will have reservations at Victoria and Alberts, the Royal Table, and the others. Especially those with repeat visits to these locations. It's easier for them to probably get an idea who's at the top than among the bottom.

If I had to guess, a lot of the people at Victoria and Alberts and the others, probably have annual passes too.

I continue to be amazed at the capabilities data provides, over the past 5-10 years growth in this area is bonkers.

Disney invested all that money into RFID and will recoup plenty of the cost in efficiency and guest satisfaction. Less time & employees are needed to help guests access their room/parks, pay for merch/food, enter resort grounds, use FPs, etc. I don't think that was the only reason for the investment. The RFID provided data also helps them understand guest spending and psychology in great detail, not on an individual level but definitely in very particular categories. Everybody's spending is important in different ways. They have reams of data, the computational tools to decipher, and the interest to optimize spending and profits. They'd be negligent not to use it, lol.

 

[Vacationeer]

I don't think they really care how many food carts you shop at or if you enjoy your meal at Electric Umbrella.

I'm assuming they saw drinkers liked buying beverages at carts where there's easy access and they don't need to tip bartenders, now there are drinks at every cart. If nobody returns for food at Electric Umbrella, it'll change menu or renovate or close. I think it's closing

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Oh admit it, you're just like the rest of us. You buy the lowest tier pass and you smuggle a PBJ sandwich and water bottles filled with vodka into the parks while wearing the D1sney merchandise that you bought on AliExpress.

Great tips!

 

[CJR]

That's enough information to correlate spending by specific guest. Also, if you've ever used that same credit card to purchase something on shopdisney.com or book a hotel room with them, then they have even more information on you (address, e-mail, phone, etc).

Edit: Just to clarify, I agree that what they're looking at is averages and that's kind of my point. Actual linking of a transaction to a specific name is a challenging and expensive task that won't be entirely accurate. Some suggest that they know everything and what I'm saying is "not everything".

I still think, even if it's allowed (credit card tracking), that it's a lot of work. More than it's worth. Paying someone $20 an hour to track thousands of transactions in an effort to maybe squeeze $5 out of people? These are low dollar amounts and not worth it, IMO. It'll cost more to pay employees to track this information that they'll make back, again my opinion. I'm sure some of it is automated, but even then, with people having multiple cards and family members, it would be hard to make it all guest specific and be accurate. They can paint a picture, but it won't be 100% accurate, nor is it worth it, IMO.

Disney invested all that money into RFID

Many believe this to be a poor decision, FWIW.

The system routinely has issues and to the point where the bands sometimes don't even work at the main entrances. While in general, they do their job, there are still accuracy issues with the data.

Especially for those who pay in cash, it would be hard to tell who, given how crowded some areas can be, is paying. That's if the band is working too, like I said, mine's about three years old, so it wouldn't do what they want it to. Also, day guests and offsite guests may not have a Magic Band at all.

I think it's far better to use the MDE app data, but even that can have reliability issues. There will always be margin of error.

I think it's closing

My mention is a placeholder for any quick service. It's closing, but being replaced by more quick service. So, the point still stands. Swap, Electric Umbrella for Pecos Bills, Sunshine Seasons, ABC Commissary, Pizzafari. Disney makes plenty of money off of these, but the real winners for them are the premium table service. That's what I'm saying. For Disney, it's easier to focus on those people because it's much more trackable since they all, for the most part, require reservations. It's easy data and the big spenders provide it. Same with things like the Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, easily trackable.

Quick service, that's not mobile orders, requires more work to track, and I'd guess even more work to track festival booths. The further you dig into guest spending, the more it costs. That's what I'm saying. It costs more and the gain is less and less. [EDIT] It's a lot of work to prove a point of people a spend more than people b. You can come to that conclusion without it.

 

[tribbleorlfl]

I've got the Platinum pass, only because my husband is a Cast Member and I would be subject to more blockout dates in the lower tiers than he could get on his Main Gate (which we save his passes for out of town guests). What is going to hurt is that our two year old will need his own pass next year... at the ADULT rate. At the rate his grandparents visit, he will need his own pass so we basically have to start budgeting for his pass now. I wish there was a child pass available. If they brought the child pass back, I wonder how many more APs they would sell instead of charging everyone at the Adult price.

I still remember when they removed Child AP pricing in 2012, because it was announced right before we were due to renew. We had been Passholders for 3 years, our son was 7 and we just found out we were expecting our second. A WDW spokesman went on the local news to defend the move, saying with so many Passholders on the monthly payment plan, we'd be able to absorb the increase without a noticable impact to our budget. While that might have been true (historically, the child AP was only $50-60 less than the adult price, so I would imagine an additional $5/mo wouldn't break most AP's budget), it was more the principle that ticked me off. The child differential, despite being negligible, was acknowledgement that kids couldn't experience everything an adult could at WDW.

To me, this was the first sign TDO had shifted from simply being happy making money hand-over-fist providing world-class entertainment and service to looking to extract every last cent at the margins from their adicts (er, loyal customers). We knew constant price increases, added restrictions and benefit decreases would be incoming, and that even as an upper-middle class family, there would rapidly become a time we'd be priced out of our passes.

At our '16 renewal, we were hit with the double whammy of having to now pay for an (adult) AP for our daughter plus the massive 30% increase that was announced the prior fall. We had to drop down to Gold just to afford to keep our passes, and the past couple renewals we've been debating if the value was there any more to keep them.

We've decided that after 10 years, even with the addition of SWGE and the new stuff coming over the next couple years, that we've finally hit our breaking point with pass, food and merch prices and we will not be renewing when our passes expire early next year.

 

[Por-Favor-Manténgase]

I work in big data and believe me, it's much easier and cheaper to crunch all the info from these credit card and magic band transactions than you think. Especially in the past few years with the processing power leaps in AI. The basic info available on any credit card swipe is your name as it appears on the card, the expiration date, the full card number and your zip code. More then enough to begin collecting data into anything from a simple excel file to a complex number crunching database.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

For the most part, cash (on average) is typically used for smaller purchases by guests...obviously that's not 100% true for all cases, but statistics show it's a safe assumption when doing analysis to come up with some numbers. Credit Cards tell a fairly coherent story when trying to match up spending habits.

There are also no restrictions on credit information that stop Disney from aggregating spend by consumer when you use your credit/debit card. Sure - they dont have your social security number or credit score, but by you using your credit card, you are giving any merchant the ability to know your name and zip. That's enough information to correlate spending by specific guest. Also, if you've ever used that same credit card to purchase something on shopdisney.com or book a hotel room with them, then they have even more information on you (address, e-mail, phone, etc).

Unless you use Apple Pay. Which is why you should always use Apple Pay.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

I work in big data and believe me, it's much easier and cheaper to crunch all the info from these credit card and magic band transactions than you think. Especially in the past few years with the processing power leaps in AI. The basic info available on any credit card swipe is your name as it appears on the card, the expiration date, the full card number and your zip code. More then enough to begin collecting data into anything from a simple excel file to a complex number crunching database.

Not with Apple Pay. (And no, I don’t work for Apple)

 

[Touchdown]

I still remember when they removed Child AP pricing in 2012, because it was announced right before we were due to renew. We had been Passholders for 3 years, our son was 7 and we just found out we were expecting our second. A WDW spokesman went on the local news to defend the move, saying with so many Passholders on the monthly payment plan, we'd be able to absorb the increase without a noticable impact to our budget. While that might have been true (historically, the child AP was only $50-60 less than the adult price, so I would imagine an additional $5/mo wouldn't break most AP's budget), it was more the principle that ticked me off

If a child is taller then 40 inches then they can do most of the rides, and for other chains the height of ride “plurality” is the limit for child passes, given that under 2 is free and the average height of a 5 year old child is over 40 inches, that’s a very narrow window for child passes.

 

[CJR]

Collecting data from magic bands and credit cards, ok. Do they have enough to "begin" crunching, sure. I'd say we're already passed that point, actually. Will it be 100% accurate for every guest? Nope.

Too many variables with non-trackable transactions as well as multiple guests being on the same transaction. Too hard to break it all down accurately, right now, without directly asking guests who they're purchasing for, what person is getting what, and why. Maybe a friend is paying me back, they won't see that.

For example, just because dad bought some of my drinks at Trader Sam's doesn't mean I wouldn't have paid for them if he wasn't so kind. The purchase data won't say that. It'll just make dad out to be a heavy drinker.

Lots and lots of variables that won't paint the perfect picture. Works for averages, but not for detailed guest profiles. If that's the mission, they're wasting time and money.

 

[Victor Kelly]

What I get out of all this is they don't want to lose high spenders over crowd conditions. They manipulate pricing in such a way that most guests now pay alot more and if they lose you because you're not willing pay that much, they see it as you were not spending enough per capita and are easy to drop so the high spenders don't feel crowded.

They are playing with fire. It looks good on paper to have guest spending averages at an all time high but is it sustainable?

No economics tells us this type of thinking is never sustainable in the long run.

Personal example. I used to run large scale paintball games. Twice per year. Admission was $60 a head. My associates want to have those same games every month. They required a lot of planning, which I did all of. I told them that the market cannot sustain that schedule. I said maximum is 3 per year, and we would need to drop the price by 20% or more.

Instead they decided to stab me in the back and yank the organization from me. Well, they failed. People stopped coming. Factors: the story lines stunk, the price went up, extras went away, people stopped coming in droves. They never understood market saturation, nor considered what the players wanted. Plus their customer service stunk to high heck. You have to mingle with the players, talk to them. You also cannot play in the game. That creates an unfair advantage and conflict of interest.

Disney is in the middle of this mistake now on many different topics. They will screw over the big spenders and lets face it. There are fewer people buying high level APs BECAUSE of the price. They don't get that.the more pennies you shake from people's pockets for admission, the less they have to spend on the true mark up items of food, beverages and merchandise.

Its like they are letting 6th graders run the company. My major was Criminal Justice. But I had economics all four years of high school, plus college. I have forgotten a lot. But I retain the basics.

 

[Vacationeer]

No economics tells us this type of thinking is never sustainable in the long run.

Personal example. I used to run large scale paintball games. Twice per year. Admission was $60 a head. My associates want to have those same games every month. They required a lot of planning, which I did all of. I told them that the market cannot sustain that schedule. I said maximum is 3 per year, and we would need to drop the price by 20% or more.

Instead they decided to stab me in the back and yank the organization from me. Well, they failed. People stopped coming. Factors: the story lines stunk, the price went up, extras went away, people stopped coming in droves. They never understood market saturation, nor considered what the players wanted. Plus their customer service stunk to high heck. You have to mingle with the players, talk to them. You also cannot play in the game. That creates an unfair advantage and conflict of interest.

Disney is in the middle of this mistake now on many different topics. They will screw over the big spenders and lets face it. There are fewer people buying high level APs BECAUSE of the price. They don't get that.the more pennies you shake from people's pockets for admission, the less they have to spend on the true mark up items of food, beverages and merchandise.

Its like they are letting 6th graders run the company. My major was Criminal Justice. But I had economics all four years of high school, plus college. I have forgotten a lot. But I retain the basics.

Those guys got in their own way, lol. Business is tricky to find balance.
At WDW it's like they're holding up each thing a guest can spend money on and saying, "How much is it worth to ya?"

 

[Rasvar]

Unless they are using the proximity reader capability of the Magicbands at the registers (wouldn't be surprised either way if they do or don't), a lot of my purchases are hard to track unless Target passes the purchase info on to Disney of the name of who got a giftcard. I've gotten into the habit of purchasing giftcards at Target with my Redcard to get the 5% back on it.

 

[Por-Favor-Manténgase]

Not with Apple Pay. (And no, I don’t work for Apple)

They may not see your physical card number, but there are consistent device specific details that are tracked. Try googling Payment Account Reference (PAR).

 

[SSH]

What's really stupid is they could easily jack up the cost of APs and still win the hearts and loyalty of AP holders forever IF they just made them feel special - treated them to a few perks and privileges.

UO does this well....whether it's a dedicated AP-only parade watching spot, new AP pins and magnets every month, an AC passholder lounge or first dibs on participating in the mardi gras parade float as a bead thrower, UO makes you feel more valued as an AP in many ways.

WDW has sooo many assets and avenues to woo APs that wouldn't cost them a cent - but they have zero motivation or creativity. Maybe when the dual whammy of plummeting AP renewals AND a serious economic recession hits.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

They may not see your physical card number, but there are consistent device specific details that are tracked. Try googling Payment Account Reference (PAR).

Device specific, sure. But nothing to tell the retailer who owns the device. It’s very similar to broadcasting a random Bluetooth ID. No one knows who owns it, but it can be tracked until the person gets a new phone, or, in Apple Pay’s case, until the card is removed and re-added to Apple Pay.

 

[Por-Favor-Manténgase]

Device specific, sure. But nothing to tell the retailer who owns the device. It’s very similar to broadcasting a random Bluetooth ID. No one knows who owns it, but it can be tracked until the person gets a new phone, or, in Apple Pay’s case, until the card is removed and re-added to Apple Pay.

My guess is as mobile payments grow in usage, Disney will start rolling out some psuedo "loyalty program" to pull all the pieces together.

 

[Vacationeer]

My guess is as mobile payments grow in usage, Disney will start rolling out some psuedo "loyalty program" to pull all the pieces together.

We're easy to track for WDW. We always buy a room package and use one credit card for everybody in our room linked on MBs.

They totally got us this time: A few months after a trip we receive a nice poster mailing in Sept personalized with dates for a week the following spring. Our school had spring break starting the week after Easter and WDW was happy to remind us we had a great opportunity. It worked and we booked within days. We had planned waiting 2 years to return. I was impressed at how precisely they pegged us.