News Early Theme Park Entry and Extended Evening Hours coming for resort guests

[ToTBellHop]

.... do you expect them to return to 12 hour days?

I have an August trip booked... and my mood has been swinging between optimism and pessimism. I was considering moving it to Christmas..... Then I was feeling optimistic with rumors of summer night entertainment, etc... so I went and booked airfare. Now I'm pretty locked in. Then came the news that the Rat won't be open until October (I really thought it would be open for my trip). So I'm pessimistic again. When early entry was first announced (months ago), I expected it would be going by August, but now, I don't think so.

So give me some good news... tell me you actually expect parks operating 12 hours per day.. if I can get that and some form of fireworks (I'll take Fantasmic and EF!), then I'll be happy..

I still don’t know about nighttime entertainment but, yes, expect full days as long as people are still visiting.

 

[GoofGoof]

Umm... I don’t understand. If safe distancing = 6’ it doesn’t magically become 3’ just because you want to open schools.

My kid’s schools did not have enough room to do full 6 feet so have always been following this. I believe they say they will attempt to maintain 6 feet of distance when possible.

 

[GoofGoof]

I still don’t know about nighttime entertainment but, yes, expect full days as long as people are still visiting.

I think entertainment depends on demand. First step is relaxing distancing to allow the parks to return to full capacity. Then they need to look at bookings and projected demand. If the demand is there they will bring back entertainment and longer hours and more perks. If demand is soft some of that stuff will be delayed. In other words I think this Summer will be driven more by economics and less by Covid restrictions.

 

[nickys]

Everywhere. It’s the European guideline, so it’s not entirely arbitrary. It’s the only way to get schools fully open but you can’t exactly say, “it’s safe for 7-year olds but not adults.”

It’s also why you are seeing summer concert announcements and musical theater being scheduled.

Actually it varies in Europe between 1m, 1.5m and 2m.

 

[havoc315]

Disney is scheduled to open several more resorts Late Spring and early summer. I could see them looking to offer this perk to fill the onsite rooms. If they don’t think they need the extra cost they won’t do it. I don’t see this as being a big selling feature for the 50th. It’s not a ride or a show or an attraction that they can promote or advertise and is only a benefit for hotel guests. It’s basically a perk to get people to pay for the rooms. I don’t see Disney as uninterested in filling their rooms but they won’t spend extra money if they think they can fill the rooms anyway.

It would be a perk to stay onsite for the 50th as opposed to offsite. It would be "new magic" as part of the 50th..

Yes, more resorts are scheduled to open Spring and Summer -- but many are still slated to stay closed for the summer. So I'm not saying they are "uninterested" -- but it's clear they don't plan on filling their full room capacity over the summer. Either they don't think they can (so they would rather have 8 hotels at 90% full compared to 10 hotels at 70% full, or whatever), or they don't think the costs would be worthwhile.
And *now* is the time to start Spring/Summer promotion. I'm actually a little surprised room discounts have only been announced through early July, though full summer discounts will almost certainly be released in the next month. So if you wanted "early entry" to be part of people's summer decision making, you'd want to start promoting it now/soon.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Actually it varies in Europe between 1m, 1.5m and 2m.

Choose your science?

COVID-19 advice - Physical distancing | WHO Western Pacific

www.who.int

 

[havoc315]

I think entertainment depends on demand. First step is relaxing distancing to allow the parks to return to full capacity. Then they need to look at bookings and projected demand. If the demand is there they will bring back entertainment and longer hours and more perks. If demand is soft some of that stuff will be delayed. In other words I think this Summer will be driven more by economics and less by Covid restrictions.

..... but entertainment drives the demand, not the other way around. If the parks were full without fireworks, they would see no reason to offer fireworks. The point of fireworks is as a night-time draw for guests, to stimulate demand. Get them to hang out spending money the whole day, instead of leaving in the afternoon.

The "distancing issue" is really only to the degree there is enough room for distancing while having the entertainment. That could be a real problem with a stage show at Magic Kingdom. Less of an issue around the World Showcase, or Fantasmic Theater where you can control the number of guests.
"Full capacity" also isn't the issue -- Universal is doing night entertainment. It's just an issue of whether you can fill up whatever capacity you have. If they aren't filling whatever capacity they have, then they have the incentive to offer night entertainment. (Here again, Magic Kingdom might be a lower priority as they are getting close to filling their capacity often. DHS has no problem filling capacity but the guests leave early... so night entertainment would get them to stay and spend money into night. Epcot rarely reaches their capacity, so could use a draw).

 

[CastAStone]

Choose your science?

COVID-19 advice - Physical distancing | WHO Western Pacific

www.who.int

Isn’t choose your own science basically how this entire pandemic has been handled by all Western governments?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Isn’t choose your own science basically how this entire pandemic has been handled by all Western governments?

Yep. And if you don’t like it, pick again. It’s like playing cards with a 3-year old.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I still don’t know about nighttime entertainment but, yes, expect full days as long as people are still visiting.

Need more hours. The current early 30 minutes for resort guests is a joke, a non-incentive as in it has no value. Start talking an hour earlier start and then throw in some late hours.

 

[GoofGoof]

..... but entertainment drives the demand, not the other way around. If the parks were full without fireworks, they would see no reason to offer fireworks. The point of fireworks is as a night-time draw for guests, to stimulate demand. Get them to hang out spending money the whole day, instead of leaving in the afternoon.

I think it goes both ways. You have a certain amount of revenue coming in from park ticket sales, that’s offset by the cost to operate the parks (salaries, electricity, materials used, etc..) In current times the parks are artificially low on revenue so they are bare bones on costs as well to try to offset so even if all entertainment could come back safely from a Covid prospective it wouldn’t. Just like after 9/11 or during the recession they cut down on the number of showings of Fantasmic for example. The entertainment is a draw for guests as a part of the whole experience, but just as importantly it’s a people eater. People lineup for hours around the lake in EPCOT or near the hub at MK or in the stadium for Fantasmic. That occupies their time and they aren’t in line for other attractions making everyone’s wait time go down. Best time to ride TT or Soarin is the hour before the show starts. Shorter wait because so many people are getting a spot for the show. So yes, entertainment draws more demand but it’s also needed more as crowds increase to occupy guest’s time.

This summer as crowd demand rises they need to bring back some shows and entertainment and they likely will. The entertainment will only make demand grow more. If the revenue coming in from park ticket sales isn’t high enough Theu could delay entertainment as a cost cutting measure. Seems counterintuitive in a way, but that’s spreadsheet economics for you. Either way I think it’s much more going to be economic driven than covid driven once we hit the Summer peak period. If the demand is there park hours and entertainment will be added.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I think it goes both ways. You have a certain amount of revenue coming in from park ticket sales, that’s offset by the cost to operate the parks (salaries, electricity, materials used, etc..) In current times the parks are artificially low on revenue so they are bare bones on costs as well to try to offset so even if all entertainment could come back safely from a Covid prospective it wouldn’t. Just like after 9/11 or during the recession they cut down on the number of showings of Fantasmic for example. The entertainment is a draw for guests as a part of the whole experience, but just as importantly it’s a people eater. People lineup for hours around the lake in EPCOT or near the hub at MK or in the stadium for Fantasmic. That occupies their time and they aren’t in line for other attractions making everyone’s wait time go down. Best time to ride TT or Soarin is the hour before the show starts. Shorter wait because so many people are getting a spot for the show. So yes, entertainment draws more demand but it’s also needed more as crowds increase to occupy guest’s time.

This summer as crowd demand rises they need to bring back some shows and entertainment and they likely will. The entertainment will only make demand grow more. If the revenue coming in from park ticket sales isn’t high enough Theu could delay entertainment as a cost cutting measure. Seems counterintuitive in a way, but that’s spreadsheet economics for you. Either way I think it’s much more going to be economic driven than covid driven once we hit the Summer peak period. If the demand is there park hours and entertainment will be added.

Really! The demand is there, that is not the question.

 

[havoc315]

I think it goes both ways. You have a certain amount of revenue coming in from park ticket sales, that’s offset by the cost to operate the parks (salaries, electricity, materials used, etc..) In current times the parks are artificially low on revenue so they are bare bones on costs as well to try to offset so even if all entertainment could come back safely from a Covid prospective it wouldn’t. Just like after 9/11 or during the recession they cut down on the number of showings of Fantasmic for example. The entertainment is a draw for guests as a part of the whole experience, but just as importantly it’s a people eater. People lineup for hours around the lake in EPCOT or near the hub at MK or in the stadium for Fantasmic. That occupies their time and they aren’t in line for other attractions making everyone’s wait time go down. Best time to ride TT or Soarin is the hour before the show starts. Shorter wait because so many people are getting a spot for the show. So yes, entertainment draws more demand but it’s also needed more as crowds increase to occupy guest’s time.

This summer as crowd demand rises they need to bring back some shows and entertainment and they likely will. The entertainment will only make demand grow more. If the revenue coming in from park ticket sales isn’t high enough Theu could delay entertainment as a cost cutting measure. Seems counterintuitive in a way, but that’s spreadsheet economics for you. Either way I think it’s much more going to be economic driven than covid driven once we hit the Summer peak period. If the demand is there park hours and entertainment will be added.

I don't disagree with any of this.
Though I'll say some types of entertainment are more about crowd-control, eating people -- Like the Beauty and the Beast Show. Few people are going to build their day around seeing BATB at DHS... but it can draw people away from other attractions, give them something else to do.

Other types of entertainment are more about drawing people into the park, or keeping them there -- particularly fireworks. Remember,the night time entertainment actually occurs *after* park close. (best time for rides isn't 1 hour before the entertainment.. it's 1 minute before).
So when it's 9:01 p.m. at Epcot, it's too late to get on another line ride anyway. There is still some crowd control aspect, as it discourages people from getting on line after 8:30ish, or they would miss the entertainment. So it helps clear out the lines at the end of the day. But the primary benefit is drawing people into the park at night, selling dining packages, etc.

The demand/expense cycle is real, but often counter productive. It's an internal war.
Yes... when demand goes down, the bean counters will say, "we have less revenue.. therefore we need to find costs to cut... So let's cut out this entertainment.."
But when taken too far, this becomes a death spiral. I remember some years ago, when Circuit City was the main competition to Best Buy. Circuit City was struggling, losing money.. so they announced, they were cutting costs by firing all their experienced and knowledgeable employees, those who could actually give consumers good recommendations. And going with all minimum wage, untrained employees. That didn't save them -- they just lost even more.

What we tend to see from more successful businesses... is reevaluation and expansion. May cut something that isn't working to focus on something new. So it's.. "revenues are down on soft demand, let's cut the costs that aren't generating demand... but let's invest in new areas that will stimulate demand."
With the pandemic, WDW may have actually been trying to avoid stimulating tooooo much demand. Knowing they had limited capacity to work with, they wouldn't even be able to accommodate a normal level of demand.
But once they *can* accommodate the demand, it would be Circuit-City-level-foolishness to continue to retreat.

 

[Communicora]

Isn’t choose your own science basically how this entire pandemic has been handled by all Western governments?

Yes, I believe that is what one might call policy based data-making.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

few people are going to build their day around seeing BATB at DHS...

Only families with children who love Disney Princesses....

Remember,the night time entertainment actually occurs *after* park close.

Not always. Remember MK used to have 2 night parades and Fireworks each night.

 

[havoc315]

Only families with children who love Disney Princesses....

Not always. Remember MK used to have 2 night parades and Fireworks each night.

Families that love princesses have a million options at WDW during normal operations that would above BATB.

Correct... and Fantasmic, back when they had 2 shows.. 1 was during park hours.

But I’m specifically referring to the entertainment that commences after hours.

All attractions and entertainment at WDW are a combination of drawing demand and simply people-eating. I’m sure there are some BATB fanatics who skip everything else and rush to BATB. But at this point, it’s more a people eater.
While night firework spectaculars are more about bringing in people.
And there is lots of entertainment that falls in between.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Families that love princesses have a million options at WDW during normal operations that would above BATB.

At DHS the princess options are Beauty and the Beast Live on Stage, Voyage of the Little Mermaid, and Frozen Sing-Along.

Princesses are also featured in Fantasmic.

So that’s 4 options.

But hey.. I build my entire day around seeing Citizens of Hollywood so what do I know

 

[havoc315]

At DHS the princess options are Beauty and the Beast Live on Stage, Voyage of the Little Mermaid, and Frozen Sing-Along.

Princesses are also featured in Fantasmic.

So that’s 4 options.

But hey.. I build my entire day around seeing Citizens of Hollywood so what do I know

There are three other parks where you can see princesses.. and (during non-Covid), even meet them, hug them, and get your photo taken with them. Or you can meet a bunch of them at multiple dining experiences.. And you forgot you can meet Sophia the First (or used to) at DHS..

My daughter was into Disney princesses when she was younger.... But she never said, "oh no... we can't miss the chance to see Belle from a couple hundred feet away in a stage show!"

Now the Citizens of Hollywood on the other hand...

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't disagree with any of this.
Though I'll say some types of entertainment are more about crowd-control, eating people -- Like the Beauty and the Beast Show. Few people are going to build their day around seeing BATB at DHS... but it can draw people away from other attractions, give them something else to do.

Other types of entertainment are more about drawing people into the park, or keeping them there -- particularly fireworks. Remember,the night time entertainment actually occurs *after* park close. (best time for rides isn't 1 hour before the entertainment.. it's 1 minute before).
So when it's 9:01 p.m. at Epcot, it's too late to get on another line ride anyway. There is still some crowd control aspect, as it discourages people from getting on line after 8:30ish, or they would miss the entertainment. So it helps clear out the lines at the end of the day. But the primary benefit is drawing people into the park at night, selling dining packages, etc.

The demand/expense cycle is real, but often counter productive. It's an internal war.
Yes... when demand goes down, the bean counters will say, "we have less revenue.. therefore we need to find costs to cut... So let's cut out this entertainment.."
But when taken too far, this becomes a death spiral. I remember some years ago, when Circuit City was the main competition to Best Buy. Circuit City was struggling, losing money.. so they announced, they were cutting costs by firing all their experienced and knowledgeable employees, those who could actually give consumers good recommendations. And going with all minimum wage, untrained employees. That didn't save them -- they just lost even more.

What we tend to see from more successful businesses... is reevaluation and expansion. May cut something that isn't working to focus on something new. So it's.. "revenues are down on soft demand, let's cut the costs that aren't generating demand... but let's invest in new areas that will stimulate demand."
With the pandemic, WDW may have actually been trying to avoid stimulating tooooo much demand. Knowing they had limited capacity to work with, they wouldn't even be able to accommodate a normal level of demand.
But once they *can* accommodate the demand, it would be Circuit-City-level-foolishness to continue to retreat.

It’s also about maximizing spend. EPCOT’s economic model revolves around people wanting to eat/drink there and then catch the night show. They sell a ton of food and booze and a big part of that is the night ending show. AK tried for something similar with Rivers of Light. I still think it can work in that park but we may need to wait a while to see.

For this Summer I wouldn’t expect to see everything entertainment wise back but I wouldn’t be shocked to see night shows at EPCOT, MK and Fantasmic back along with people eating stage shows. Smaller scale entertainment will be slower to return. One of the reasons people go to Disney parks is for the variety of entertainment options beyond just rides. I think for now they will hang their hat on a return from pandemic more than anything to draw people in. Lots of pent up demand that’s free to capitalize on.

 

[havoc315]

It’s also about maximizing spend. EPCOT’s economic model revolves around people wanting to eat/drink there and then catch the night show. They sell a ton of food and booze and a big part of that is the night ending show. AK tried for something similar with Rivers of Light. I still think it can work in that park but we may need to wait a while to see.

For this Summer I wouldn’t expect to see everything entertainment wise back but I wouldn’t be shocked to see night shows at EPCOT, MK and Fantasmic back along with people eating stage shows. Smaller scale entertainment will be slower to return. One of the reasons people go to Disney parks is for the variety of entertainment options beyond just rides. I think for now they will hang their hat on a return from pandemic more than anything to draw people in. Lots of pent up demand that’s free to capitalize on.

You nailed it. ROTL was an attempt to stop people from treating Animal Kingdom as a half-day park. Note, they added a signature restaurant at the same time to the park.

You are spot on with the Epcot model. Looking at dining availability 60 days out, I'm amazed that Epcot restaurants tend to have more availability than anyplace else. And that's with limited dining capacity, and several Epcot restaurants still closed.

Restaurant capacity will almost certainly increase by summer time. So yes, a night time show -- at least Epcot Forever -- can help put diner into all those restaurant seats.

I believe Epcot has a Festival going until early July. I wouldn't be shocked to see fireworks return to Epcot by July 4th, and continue through the summer. Otherwise, Epcot restaurants may be a ghost town all summer long.