Do you think you will ever enjoy Epcot again??

[Heppenheimer]

I mentioned this in passing previously, but it is probably worth restating. Remember that one of the descriptions of Epcot's original concept was "a permanent World's Fair". Some of us above a certain age might remember that World's Fairs were once a huge deal. These semi-regular events captured the fascination of the public in a way that is hard to imagine today, and they temporarily boosted the host cities as significant tourist destinations (even if many of the fairs failed to hit their too-ambitious target numbers). But when was the last time you heard families discussing planning a vacation around a World's Fair? When was the last World's Fair you even remember hearing about (Bilboa, for me)? I didn't even know that these events still existed until I researched the topic on Wikipedia. However, now they call them 'Expos" and their focus is usually more specialized than previously. They seem to be geared more towards exchanges between businesses than events for the general public

My point? The kind of technology showcases and cross-cultural sharing events that inspired Epcot simply aren't big draws among the general public anymore. If Disney continued Epcot's original focus, they would be fighting against trends that are much larger than any one company can influence.

The kind of events that do seem to attract the public attention these days are things like ComicCon, music and food festivals. This is far more likely to be the future direction of Epcot: branded intellectual properties, and food.

 

[flynnibus]

Ok so again, I'll ask do you think you can enjoy Epcot knowing that the current style seems to moved away from what it was and that it is not returning to 1980

I think what you continue to miss is that people don't yearn for what it was... they yearn for what MADE what it was so unique and satisfying.

So it's not about wanting Attraction XYZ to never leave... it's about wanting something that resonated or made them like Attraction XYZ did. Don't keep attraction XYZ forever, make sure it's replacement delivers the same kind of values or updated ones in a setting that is applicable for its time.

Case in point... replacing an attraction that showed the marvel of how an entire theme park is ran with new computer technology... with.. character meet & greets?

It doesn't matter how much you or your kid missed Donald or loves meeting him... It's the kind of change that guts and changes the soul of a place. That M&G could be anywhere... why should it be in future world? Where now something appropriate WON'T happen. This is the premise of why people have issues with 'something good, but in the wrong place'. It's not just about staging, placemaking, etc.. it also rips at what impression and impact the place will have on someone.

That it in the very near future going to have more Ip and continue with the festivals and restaurants.

If they build great attractions.. ok, I'll probably enjoy them. But it will be less and less of a theme park, and certainly less EPCOT.

EPCOT isn't just a zipcode to build attractions in.

 

[bUU]

Epcot will likely never regain the magic it had for me in those first 1980s visits, but it is the reason I have returned as an adult.

Perhaps the reason Epcot will not regain the magic it had for you as a child is that have returned as an adult with the expectation that it would be the same. If you are visiting with your children and you're not seeing through their eyes how they are seeing it as magical as you did as a child them you need to try harder.

 

[bUU]

Take away festivals ...

In a word:
No

You keep missing the point. What you like others don't. What you don't like others do.

 

[flynnibus]

In a word:
No

You keep missing the point. What you like others don't. What you don't like others do.

I didn't bother replying to your "its what I like so..." posts earlier.. but if you insist.

The festivals are not there for entertainment value - they are there to create a visiting draw and revenue.

It's no better than saying "They should just put more stores in, because people like shopping"

You like festivals? Fine... but it's not a theme park... nor should you or others be paying world class theme park pricing as admission to a city food festival.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Would I still enjoy the MK if they had closed Adventureland and Frontierland and opened a Hooters and a casino in Fantasyland?

Yes, but a fair bit less. I'd try to enjoy what they had left and avoid the worst of the new.

And yes, I very well would inform the slightly cruder new audience that would then visit the MK for the adult entertainment of a Hooters - something you can see everywhere else - that once upon a time the place used to be magical.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

WS already *was* a food festival. Always. But it was a Disney food festival. That is to say, not Disney in the modern sense of 'add $11/h Miguel from Honduras in a Donald suit'. But Disney in the sense that unlike all other similar food festivals in the world, the Disney festival doesn't consist of mildly decorated food booths but of fully realised, remarkably sophisticated environments that fully immerse the guests.

The modern permanent food festival WS is not an evolution, but a regression, a deterioration, of both WS and of what it means to make something 'more Disney'.

 

[Communicora]

Perhaps the reason Epcot will not regain the magic it had for you as a child is that have returned as an adult with the expectation that it would be the same. If you are visiting with your children and you're not seeing through their eyes how they are seeing it as magical as you did as a child them you need to try harder.

Thank you for the patronizing reply. Futureworld is empirically less than what it once was. Hence the reason they are redoing parts of it. And by the way, not everyone has children either by choice or because they couldn’t. Don’t be a jerk.

 

[OneofThree]

Perhaps the reason Epcot will not regain the magic it had for you as a child is that have returned as an adult with the expectation that it would be the same. If you are visiting with your children and you're not seeing through their eyes how they are seeing it as magical as you did as a child them you need to try harder.

Going to go out on a limb (or not) and say that it's more likely you're not in a position to know how much EC has changed, vs. anyone else's perception.

 

[OneofThree]

The modern permanent food festival WS is not an evolution, but a regression, a deterioration, of both WS and of what it means to make something 'more Disney'.

This cannot possibly be overstated.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Would I still enjoy the MK if they had closed Adventureland and Frontierland and opened a Hooters and a casino in Fantasyland?

Yes, but a fair bit less. I'd try to enjoy what they had left and avoid the worst of the new.

And yes, I very would inform the cruder new audience that now goes to the MK for the adult entertainment of a Hooters - something you can see everywhere else - that once upon a time the place used to be magical.

Now I have combined parts of your post in my head and actually want a wild west themed casino/saloon tucked away somewhere in Frontierland, but not Fantasyland.

 

[bUU]

The festivals are not there for entertainment value

Translation: You personally aren't entertained by the festivals.

You like festivals? Fine... but it's not a theme park...

Translation: You personally don't like festivals at theme parks. Your personally preferences may be popular among your friends but not among the massive numbers of guests that we regularly encounter during the festivals.

Thank you for the patronizing reply.

You're welcome, but that specific comment was intended as a straight comment.

Futureworld is empirically less than what it once was.

Translation: You personally don't like Futureworld as much as you used to.

Hence the reason they are redoing parts of it.

Translation: You're assessing a partial park, meaning that by your logic whenever something is being reimagined they're doing something bad to you.

And by the way, not everyone has children either by choice or because they couldn’t.

Fair enough.

Going to go out on a limb (or not) and say that it's more likely you're not in a position to know how much EC has changed, vs. anyone else's perception.

I know as well as anyone else here how much Epcot has changed over the years. I hated Communicore just like I hated Innoventions. But I respected that these areas were intended for other guests. It seems that that concept, that there are other guests at which something might be intended, is not well understood.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Now I have combined parts of your post in my head and actually want a wild west themed casino/saloon tucked away somewhere in Frontierland, but not Fantasyland.

I actually like where you're going with that! =D

Would be such a better fit for FrL than Toy Story and Pecos Bill.

Reminds me of classic '71 Western River Expedition:

 

[JusticeDisney]

I will enjoy Epcot each and every time I am ever there. Absolutely love that park. Full stop.

 

[flynnibus]

Translation: You personally aren't entertained by the festivals.

Translation? You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

What you are doing is putting on blinders and cherry picking angles that you think suit your purpose.

My statement had nothing to do with personal preference or entertainment - so no, you are flat out wrong (again).

Translation: You personally don't like festivals at theme parks. Your personally preferences may be popular among your friends but not among the massive numbers of guests that we regularly encounter during the festivals.

Again - wrong. Just because Festivals may be popular amoung people you interact with, that doesn't make them into something else.

I know as well as anyone else here how much Epcot has changed over the years. I hated Communicore just like I hated Innoventions. But I respected that these areas were intended for other guests. It seems that that concept, that there are other guests at which something might be intended, is not well understood.

Maybe learn to respect that not everyone speaks solely from their personal preferences, but knows how to be objective and hold discussions independent of their personal preferences.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

I’m going to admit I’m more of a neutral, I’m an Epcot 94 fan. I’m more bummed about the nighttime show after Epcot Forever, possible removal of the fountain, I want the old Imagination back which isn’t as impossible and I’m not to crazy about the nighttime show coming after Epcot Forever. Besides that

 

[Dreaming of Disney World]

I thought Epcot was boring when I was a kid in the 90s. I was pleasantly surprised when I returned as an adult and experienced more interesting, Disney themed rides.

 

[KeithVH]

I think what you continue to miss is that people don't yearn for what it was... they yearn for what MADE what it was so unique and satisfying.

So it's not about wanting Attraction XYZ to never leave... it's about wanting something that resonated or made them like Attraction XYZ did. Don't keep attraction XYZ forever, make sure it's replacement delivers the same kind of values or updated ones in a setting that is applicable for its time.

Those that don't get this will probably never understand. The old parks are not monuments in time to be worshipped. But they are THE FREAKIN' BASELINE. If whatever ANY of the parks evolve into, and it don't "spark joy", it shouldn't be kept. To say the status quo is satisfactory, I think, doesn't take into account a whole lot of factors. I can have fun in Epcot, but I know enough to realize the park has lost it's way and is nowhere near the purpose it was originally created for (what it's creators had in mind, not $$$). The potential for improvement is massive. But as has been pointed out, right now it's all about the benjamins.

Some seem unhappy here that the things they imply the majority "like" actually want things the way they are. I'm not sure how they arrive at that conclusion? How do we not know that the majority might not be happier with the park configured differently? Way too many assumptions being made.

 

[bUU]

Translation? You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Or it does, but you don't want to admit it. One or the other. What's clear is that you and I won't agree about anything. As far as I'm concerned, all you're doing is posting vapid responses to my cogent arguments against what you are posting, and probably doing so just because you have an ax to grind with Disney because they down kowtow to your personal preferences.

What you are doing is putting on blinders and cherry picking angles that you think suit your purpose.

You keep forgetting that my perspective explains that which you experience in the real world. That's why you're complaining. The only place your perspective has even a tenuous fingerhold is within an echo chamber of Disney complainers. Out there at the gates and in the parks, your comments are unequivocally refuted as ridiculous nonsense.

My statement had nothing to do with personal preference or entertainment

Yes it did, even if you're unwilling to admit it.

Again - wrong. Just because Festivals may be popular amoung people you interact with, that doesn't make them into something else.

Again - the "people I interact with" are in the parks, the very very highly attended parks, not huddled into a small and truly marginal corner of complainers.

Maybe learn to respect that not everyone speaks solely from their personal preferences

Of course not everyone speaks solely from their personal preferences. You are.

 

[bUU]

I’m going to admit I’m more of a neutral, I’m an Epcot 94 fan. I’m more bummed about the nighttime show after Epcot Forever, possible removal of the fountain, I want the old Imagination back which isn’t as impossible and I’m not to crazy about the nighttime show coming after Epcot Forever.

We did the dinner package for our final viewing of Illuminations. I made the waitress cry regaling her with my family's treasured memories of the show. It's a favorite. We'll miss it but time passes and things come and go.

The interim show sounds interesting, but it is an interim show, so my expectations are reasonable. (I fully expect that there will be a lot of chest-beating and other immaturity on display from some fans, in response to the interim show, at least those who have trouble keeping things in proper perspective, but that's pretty much par for the course now.)

With regard to the permanent replacement, I believe it will grow in our hearts just like Illuminations did, with every special family experience we share focused on the show. Expecting to love something new the way you loved something that was part of your life for years and years and years is unreasonable.

I'm in favor of the Fountain of Nations replacement. Time passes and things come and go, and just like the Leave a Legacy stones, I would prefer the center spine of the park be open, and green and shaded, and that's what I'm expecting to see. I am, though, going to appreciate the restoration of the fountain in front of Spaceship Earth, with the original pillar design that was a part of the park when it opened in 1982.