DLR attendance policy

TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
SaucyBoy said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the process but don't you just indicate in the system that you're using sick leave? When I was a CM at WDW (to be fair), all I had to do was log into the Hub, hit the call out button, and then let it know I was using sick pay. Is that not how it works now or am I just being dense? Maybe I've had one too many vodka sprites.
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Ah, well I'm sure there's some online way of "calling in sick". I hadn't thought about it, but I guess you probably don't have to telephone your manager and speak to them in person any longer? That seems to make it even easier to "call sick" if you are just logging on to a website, or even a phone App, and hitting a button to become absent from your scheduled shift.

Regardless of the process used to "call sick" and to apply accrued Sick Time to that absence, the end result is the same; a new CM with no Sick Time to use has to miss at least 16 shifts in fairly quick succession and have three separate "formal warnings" from their manager in order to get fired from Disneyland.

Since a brand new part-time statused CM is likely not getting all 8-hour shifts to start, the reality for new CM's is more like 20 shifts that must be missed before they are Terminated.

A more tenured CM who only gets 8 hour shifts but has some Sick Time hours banked needs to miss at least 25 or so shifts in a relatively short amount of time before they get fired.

As for Vodka Sprites, I hope you are at least adding a fresh citrus wedge in that drink! Please don't think it's hard to elevate the cocktail hour into something a little more elegant. Cheers! :D 🍸
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Disney Analyst said:
It does seem unlikely to have a scenario like this, so it's interesting to see it laid out like you have.

Only time I really see this scenario coming into play is if someone isn't sick and is calling out due to other jobs and schooling etc, which may make it more common, risking termination, especially if scheduling is cluster.

My first job was at a restaurant, age 14. Started as a busboy, then host, then server/bartender (worked there for 6 years consecutively, then another 3 years when I was back in town for holidays between school terms).

In that 9 years of working at this restaurant, I called out sick maybe 5 times.
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The policy is simply the policy. And missing three 8 hour shifts that you don't have any Sick Time to cover only equals 24 hours of Unexcused Absence, when it requires at least 25 hours to trigger a formal warning. Rinse and repeat at least three times before you finally get fired. But since even part-time CM's earn a few Sick Time hours for whatever shifts they do show up for, it's going to take awhile.

I tried to make it as blatant as possible that it takes some time, and quite a few missed shifts that don't become "Excused" via Sick Time application, for a CM to rack up enough missed hours of work and burn through all three Formal Warnings and get Terminated via this new attendance policy.

I mean, my God, by the month of May that Miss Carnation Cafe gal was calling in sick again literally the day after she got her latest Formal Warning from her Dockers-clad manager. Talk about bold! 🤣

Add in some banked Sick Time, or even add a few months to the timeline and thus add extra Sick Time accrued for the CM, and it really takes some conscious work (or truly miserable health) to miss enough shifts to get fired by Disneyland.
 
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SaucyBoy

SaucyBoy

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
TP2000 said:
Ah, well I'm sure there's some online way of "calling in sick". I hadn't thought about it, but I guess you probably don't have to telephone your manager and speak to them in person any longer? That seems to make it even easier to "call sick" if you are just logging on to a website, or even a phone App, and hitting a button to become absent from your scheduled shift.

Regardless of the process used to "call sick" and to apply accrued Sick Time to that absence, the end result is the same; a new CM with no Sick Time to use has to miss at least 16 shifts in fairly quick succession and have three separate "formal warnings" from their manager in order to get fired from Disneyland.

Since a brand new part-time statused CM is likely not getting all 8-hour shifts to start, the reality for new CM's is more like 20 shifts that must be missed before they are Terminated.

A more tenured CM who only gets 8 hour shifts but has some Sick Time hours banked needs to miss at least 25 or so shifts in a relatively short amount of time before they get fired.

As for Vodka Sprites, I hope you are at least adding a fresh citrus wedge in that drink! Please don't think it's hard to elevate the cocktail hour into something a little more elegant. Cheers! :D 🍸
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Ah, I'm following you now. This subforum was the first place I came when I saw the fuss on Twitter. And living in rural North Carolina, I do anything I can to elevate any moment to some level of elegance 🤣
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
SaucyBoy said:
Ah, I'm following you now. This subforum was the first place I came when I saw the fuss on Twitter. And living in rural North Carolina, I do anything I can to elevate any moment to some level of elegance 🤣
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Well, that's good to hear! It's beautiful in North Carolina. I had some really fabulous times around Winston-Salem (funny tales of taking the RJ Reynolds cigarette factory tour, many decades ago when they'd give you free packs of cigarettes just for stopping by!), and I have a friend with a special place in my heart who still lives in Raleigh.

I'm not a day drinker, so on Pacific Time I'm about an hour away still from the Cocktail Hour here on the patio. But when it arrives, I will be raising a glass to you and to all the good people of the Tar Heel State!
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
denyuntilcaught said:
I like that idea. Even better is the idea of unlimited PTO. Great work benefit and statically results in people taking less PTO, though it again sounds shiny on paper and saves the company a ton of money in PTO payouts upon departure.

Doesn't work in DLR's case, but I'm just saying. :)
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The big problem with the combined sick and vacation time is that it incentivizes people to come in when they are sick so they can use more of it as vacation time. This then just makes more people sick and while you have more people technically present for work productivity suffers.

Most people working in an hourly job aren’t well off and just having fun. It would seem just not getting paid would be enough of a penalty.
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Kirby86 said:
We called it Cloe-pening. The only arrow in the quiver if they were short staffed. They were the worst. And the response was well by law we have to give you 8 hours between shift and we did so were good and don't be late.
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I Googled. And I found one of the Union contracts for Disneyland CM's in Attractions and Parking online. It was in effect from 2018 to 2021, and it required a 10 hour turnaround time between scheduled shifts.

From Page 24 of this old Union contract, that I assume was reinstated for 2022 and beyond...

C. Shift Scheduling
1. The Employer agrees that it will endeavor to schedule at least ten (10) hours between the end of any employee's regularly scheduled shift and the beginning of the employee's next regularly scheduled shift.
2. In the event that there are less than ten (10) hours, between any two (2) shifts, the affected employee shall receive time and one-half (1½) pay during the second (2nd) shift until ten (10) hours have elapsed from the termination of the employee's first (1st) shift.

 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
The big problem with the combined sick and vacation time is that it incentivizes people to come in when they are sick so they can use more of it as vacation time. This then just makes more people sick and while you have more people technically present for work productivity suffers.
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And yet, there are many employees who don't call in sick all the time. They stay healthy, maintain their weight, excercise and eat right, don't abuse drugs or alcohol. And thus, often don't use all their 80 hours of Sick Time each year.

When I was working, I would have loved to have an extra 80 hours of "Sick Time" to actually use as vacation time. Because I rarely used 8 or 16 hours of Sick Time per year. Often, I would go a few years at a time before calling in "sick" for some reason.

It seems like a huge bonus for employees who don't get sick much. While still giving Sick Time to people who call in sick several times per year.
 
SuddenStorm

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
And yet, there are many employees who don't call in sick all the time. They stay healthy, maintain their weight, excercise and eat right, don't abuse drugs or alcohol. And thus, often don't use all their 80 hours of Sick Time each year.

When I was working, I would have loved to have an extra 80 hours of "Sick Time" to actually use as vacation time. Because I rarely used 8 or 16 hours of Sick Time per year. Often, I would go a few years at a time before calling in "sick" for some reason.

It seems like a huge bonus for employees who don't get sick much. While still giving Sick Time to people who call in sick several times per year.
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My current job doesn't have separate vacation and sick pay. It accrues based on hours worked, and if you have to call out sick you can choose to either 1. Take the day off without pay, or 2. Use PTO. I haven't heard anyone complain about it, it's never been an issue that I've seen, and it works for our small 50ish employee hotel. Of course, we also don't have union contracts to deal with- so there's much more flexibility in how we can handle situations with employees- which is both a benefit and sometimes a curse.

Part of me things Disneyland's system is overly complicated because they have to deal with so many lousy CM's, plus the unions. But I will say- I saw Disneyland's system get abused back in 2019, and know of friends abusing it in 2022. It needed to change.
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
SuddenStorm said:
My current job doesn't have separate vacation and sick pay. It accrues based on hours worked, and if you have to call out sick you can choose to either 1. Take the day off without pay, or 2. Use PTO. I haven't heard anyone complain about it, it's never been an issue that I've seen, and it works for our small 50ish employee hotel. Of course, we also don't have union contracts to deal with- so there's much more flexibility in how we can handle situations with employees- which is both a benefit and sometimes a curse.
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Agreed. We have decades between our working lives and careers, but it's good to hear young people like you would find the "lump sum" paid time off category as appealing as I would even today.

For the vast majority of employees, I can easily imagine a combined lump sum of paid time off, rather than divvying it up into "Sick Time" subject to rules and regulations and far less regulated "Vacation Time", would be more beneficial to a larger diversity of employee lifestyles.

SuddenStorm said:
Part of me things Disneyland's system is overly complicated because they have to deal with so many lousy CM's, plus the unions. But I will say- I saw Disneyland's system get abused back in 2019, and know of friends abusing it in 2022. It needed to change.
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What's interesting is that 2018-2021 Union contract I found online for Attractions/Parking CM's, the "Attendance Policy" was clearly handed over to the "Company" to manage and dictate. Which makes sense since this new attendance policy, as lenient as it now seems to be, was largely created by the "Company" itself and only superficially run past the Unions on its way to being released and implemented.

It appears the Disneyland "Attendance Policy" applies to every hourly CM evenly, whether they are in a Union or not.

 
VJ

VJ

Well-Known Member
DrAlice said:
Ok, just read the article that @Disney Analyst posted in the Miscellaneous Thoughts thread.... I agree that this policy seems pretty standard. That said, if Disney is already having staffing issues with their current, more flexible policy, this new policy is going to make those issues worse.

Yup, going to stay away from the parks for awhile. The Cast is what makes Disneyland what it is. If you replace well-trained, caring, happy cast with disgruntled, one-foot-out-the-door cast, you get Six Flags. And Six Flags is fine, but not worth Disney prices, ya know? No thank you.
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"If it's good enough for Six Flags, it's good enough for us." -Paul Pressler

Really interesting to me that people don't see history repeating itself with maintenance cuts, budget cuts, staffing cuts, etc., and would rather scream "everything's fine! nothing to see here!"
 
S

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
VJ said:
Really interesting to me that people don't see history repeating itself with maintenance cuts, budget cuts, staffing cuts, etc., and would rather scream "everything's fine! nothing to see here!"
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I don't know what you're reading or listening to where people are claiming "Everything's fine!" This place has gotten almost as bad as the MiceChat forums with its incessant negativity and whining.

Nobody hates Disneyland more than Disneyland fans on message boards.
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Let's do another one, shall we?

Instead of Miss Carnation Cafe, a CM with a couple years of tenure and some Sick Time banked who required dozens of missed shifts over just a few months time in order to be finally Terminated, let's do a brand new CM who just starts missing shifts after they pass their 120 day probationary period (that's defined in that Union contract I found online)...

We'll call this little angel Mr. Golden Zephyr. Here is his sad tale and what it takes him to lose his job under this new attendance policy...

He gets hired in January, he's part-time and only works four 6-hour shifts per week, and he passes his 120 day probationary period without missing any of his shifts. He built up a whopping 6 hours of Sick Time in his bank during Probation. But then he gets a tad too confident...

Friday, May 13th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift, 6 Hours Sick Time Applied = Excused Absence
Saturday, May 14th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence

Nothing happens. He's accrued 6 hours of Unexcused Absences and has used up his Sick Time already.

Friday, May 20th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence.
Saturday, May 21st - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence.
Sunday, May 22nd - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence.

Nothing happens. He's accrued 24 hours of Unexcused Absences, but can afford no more until he builds more Sick Time to excuse any future absences.

Thursday, May 26th, - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence

He triggered the discipline system by going over 25 hours of unexcused absences. A few days later he gets called to talk to his Dockers-clad manager who gives him a Verbal Warning. He's now on notice, and the discipline system is tracking his next 25 hours of Unexcused Absences. Let's speed this along for Mr. Golden Zephyr, shall we? No need in dragging out the inevitable, as he has summer keg parties to attend the sniffles...

Friday, June 3rd - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Saturday, June 4th - Call Sick for 7 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Sunday, June 5th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Monday, June 6th - Call Sick for 7 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence

He hit 26 hours of unexcused absences in that one lost weekend. Because he's missing so many shifts, he's barely earning any Sick Time to apply to future absences. On Thursday he returns to work at the Golden Zephyr and his manager sits him down for a "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed" :( talk and his Written Warning. Speeding along because he's being scheduled Grad Nite shifts and summer crowds have already arrived so the Golden Zephyr has at least a 5 minute wait when it's not closed for a light breeze...

Saturday, June 11th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Wednesday, June 15th - Call Sick for 7 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Sunday, June 19th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Monday, June 20th - Call Sick for 7 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence

Rinse and Repeat. He passed 25 hours of missed shifts again. He gets a Last & Final Written Warning. Do you have no respect for the Golden Zephyr, young man? 🧐

Friday, June 25th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Saturday, June 26th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Monday, June 28th - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence
Friday, July 1st - Call Sick for 6 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence

Nothing has happened. He only has 24 hours of missed shifts since his Last & Final Warning. And then...

Monday, July 4th - Call Sick for 8 Hour Shift = Unexcused Absence

Boom! He's declared his independence from working at that dumb job at the Golden Zephyr.

He returns to work on Thursday, maybe thinking his dorky manager won't notice, and his manager meets him and explains he's been Terminated.

What did that take for this new CM with barely any Sick Time after only 4 months on the job? He had to miss 19 scheduled shifts in only 6 weeks time. If he had been scheduled even shorter shifts of 4 or 5 hours instead of these 6 and 7 hour shifts, he would have had to rack up 22 to 25 missed shifts to finally be fired. But we went with 6 to 8 hour long shifts for Mr. Golden Zephyr.

I say again, does this Disneyland Attendance Policy seem too strict to anyone? It seems pretty standard, even a tad lenient, to me. 🤔

FYIfp20UsAAc5lF
 
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TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Professortango1 said:
So you are allowed to get sick 3 days a year. Well, you or your dependents. You get 3 more unpaid sick days. After that, you're getting disciplinary action. Considering a cold or flu might knock be down for 2 days, I can get sick 2-3 times per year max. And hopefully a family member doesn't take ill and need me to stay home with them or drive them to an appointment.
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Not picking on you :), as this was posted before we met Miss Carnation Cafe and Mr. Golden Zephyr above, but...

In doing my research this weekend to study Disneyland's new attendance policy before I posted the attendance scenarios above, I read the recent article over on Micechat. And I read all the angry comments there that made my head hurt. And from the misinformed way Micechat explained Disneyland's new attendance policy, it does indeed seem that way.

"Three Strikes You're Out!" the article was even titled, as if CM's will now get fired for only three absences. :banghead:

The details were missing in that Micechat article, and the entire drama cast the TDA suits as not just idiot elites out of touch with CM struggles, but as downright Dickensian villains. 👿

When in fact, as we've now seen here, it's actually more a case of Twenty Eight Strikes You're Out! for a full-time CM who has 56 hours of Sick Time banked. Or Nineteen Strikes You're Out! for a brand new part-time CM who has no Sick Time banked yet.

And if it's a CM who has worked there for more than 5 years and so gets an extra Warning, and rolls into a year with 80 hours of Sick Time banked, it's going to have to be more like Thirty Seven Strikes You're Out!

But if folks actually did some investigation and accurately titled their work Twenty Eight Strikes You're Out!, it doesn't have quite the same ring to it. ;)
 
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TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
That penalizing illness is considered “normal” is the problem.
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And yet it's not penalizing an illness, as we've now seen here with Miss Carnation Cafe and Mr. Golden Zephyr.

If the unplanned absences caused by illness are covered with accrued Sick Time, the illness has no penalty attached whatsoever. The CM doesn't even miss out on any pay for that week. No Doctor's note or medical documentation is required at all, even for multi-day absences, it's just the honor system that the CM was not feeling well that week. Or that a CM had to care for an unknown ill family member that's not tracked by anyone.

Where a CM can begin to be penalized is if the unplanned absences become so routine and happen so often that the CM runs out of Sick Time to cover them. Then, if that begins to happen, it requires at least 17 unplanned absences not covered by Sick Time for a brand new CM to be fired, on up to dozens of unplanned absences in fairly quick succession for a tenured CM to be fired who started with at least 40 hours of Sick Time accrued in their bank.

And CM's can have a maximum banked Sick Time of 240 Hours, which must be very rare. But I bet there's plenty of smart and savvy hourly CM's who have 48 or 64 or 96 banked Sick Time hours at their disposal in case they ever need them.

Or just want to use them to "care for a family member" with no questions asked and no penalty attached. ;)
 
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