Disney's Lost Worlds - A 1902 Carthay Circle Project

[spacemt354]

HONG KONG DISNEYLAND - 2ND GATE EXPANSION
DISNEY'S LOST WORLDS THEME PARK

Hong Kong Disneyland Resort Background Info
By @D Hindley

The Hong Kong Disneyland Resort is located on Lantau Island between the airport and Hong Kong. By public metro, you can easily travel from downtown to the park gate in under 20 minutes.

Lantau feels isolated, like a tropical Hawaiian island. The resort is built upon landfill in a secluded cove south of a short mountain range.

The resort is laid out tightly. Parking and public metro arrive north of Disneyland. Hotels are to the south (note one undeveloped hotel space remaining). A pedestrian corridor connects these areas. Trams travel Disneyland's western perimeter to ferry hotel guests to the northern entry area if they don't wish to walk. Intriguingly, there's an underutilized pier on the southern coast.

Note the blue area in the corridor near parking - this is the "esplanade" area which is already designed to accommodate second gate entry. At the esplanade's center is a statue of Mickey surfing atop a whale.

this resort layout leaves us great opportunities! The second gate expansion could include new hotels and a Disney Springs shopping district along the pedestrian corridor. The pier has great potential for something!

And remember that it's all landfill (the expansion pad land was added after HKDL's opening), so we can expand further into the seas if we need to.

 

[spacemt354]

Initial 'Big Picture' Concepts/Resources for the 2nd Gate​

@BlakeW39
I think that the idea of a park based upon legends/folklore is fantastic as well as nature based park playing upon a hybrid of Disney's Animal Kingdom and DisneySea, since both are such great and unique parks

I see that the location of the park as it pertains to its theme has been considered - in this way, I think a park should be leaning towards that Animal Kingdom/DisneySea park

@Disneylover152
The perfect second gate for any resort IMO is a combination of Animal Kingdom and Epcot to the scale of Tokyo Disney Sea.

@PerGronStudio
If we're talking DAK/DisneySea Hybrid, I definitely think the mythology/culture route is perfect, but as I have studied Chinese culture extensively in a Chinese history and culture class, I have learned that Chinese (and Hong Kong by extension) culture love visiting zoos and aquariums. Incorporating live animals I think would definitely be an important aspect to look into as Hong Kong's biggest rival (Ocean Park) often does even better than HKDL in ticket sales. Whether it be dolphins or pandas, any sort of live animal incorporation would really draw in the Chinese markets especially.

I’m a zookeeper so if adding backstage areas for the animals is a problem, I’m very familiar with how to design/build them (as I have many times built both backstage and onstage exhibits) and could make it very easily fit into the plans for any park if we want to spread it out amongst the park. I’m very familiar with AK’s animal care policy as well.

@Disney Dad 3000
If going with the myth/folklore/literature/animal idea, I like the idea of breaking it up into regions of the world. Makes sense from a theming and grouping/land standpoint. The Asheboro zoo had grand designs when they first started many moons ago of doing all the continents for their natural animal exhibits but didn't get too far along, similar to AK with only a couple.

@OutboundFlight
This plot of land is huge, nearly triple the size of Disneyland HK proper, so there would still be plenty of room for different architectural styles and roaming grounds for animals.

@D Hindley
Our park takes as its theme the entire world - specifically its culture, myth and natural beauty.

Think a good organizing principle and source of inspiration could be the UNESCO World Heritage Sites. They catalog the world's greatest natural sites, cultural/historical sites, and mixed sites.

Consensus Direction: A Disney's Animal Kingdom and Tokyo DisneySea hybrid theme park, entitled Disney's Lost Worlds

 

[spacemt354]

Disney's Lost Worlds Pitch and Reactions
​

@D Hindley
"Guests are explorers departing on research expeditions to discover mythic lost civilizations throughout the world, with each "Lost World" being a place where myths live in harmony with nature."

-----------------------------
@DisneyFan18
I really like this concept, as it perfectly captures everyone’s ideas of the park, and feels like something fresh, magical, and fun.

@Disney Dad 3000
Liking this lost worlds angle. Still leaves room for some mythology and animals but not tied down by having use then everywhere. Each area woukd essentially be an adventure/story.

@PerGronStudio
What if (and this might be redundant) but instead of focusing on already established fictional civilizations, we invent our own. Much like Anandapur and Harambe at DAK, we could use references from each part of the world we're choosing from, so China/Japan for our Asian area, East Africa for our African area, Mexico/Caribbean/Brazil for Latin America, etc. And instead of go with a civilization already published where we're a little more limited in concept (I.E. harder to fit Coco in Latin America if it is based on El Dorado). I just feel like these fictional places limit our creativity a bit more than if we used influences from the places we want to include (your list of that is fantastic for parts of the world) and just build our own fictional civilizations based on that.

@Pionmycake
I'm loving this! Gives us more of a focus with a lot of potential for cavern and indoor elements for hiding from weather.

@nated1226
I really love the ideas! I would defiantly be happy to work on this idea.

@kap91
In general I find the idea of a park filled with a bunch of lost worlds pretty appealing...reminds me what IOA would be like if the Port of Entry actually made thematic sense with the rest of the park. So that's cool.

I'm iffy on the theme though...."where myths live in harmony with nature" is kind of vague and feels like it would result in lost worlds AND nature rather than the two integrated together. Granted I haven't read though the thread so I'm not sure what lost/mythical civilizations you're talking about but - Atlantis, Alexandria, Ancient Rome, Egypt, Pompeii, Mayan and Aztec's etc, civilization in general is generally about man's dominance over nature. Advanced cities typically destroy nature, though interestingly when lost it's nature that will destroy and reclaim them over time. So perhaps a theme that's more of a through line is mankind's relationship with nature. You could experience a lost world as it was in it's heyday, with nature being subjugated. A lost world as it was lost, in a battle with nature. A lost world as it is now, subsumed by nature. And maybe a mythical future where a new civilization has overtaken the ruins of an old civilization, but now has learned to live in harmony with nature. It depends on what you want to say about that theme, if anything. I think that's more interesting too than every land being some variation of "here's this famous place you've heard about, and it's abandoned"

Consensus Approach Reached (Aug 8, 2018)
@D Hindley
To reiterate, these ideas are for a second gate at Hong Kong Disneyland. Our reference points have been Animal Kingdom and DisneySea, as we wish to create a park with the same detail, immersion, fantastical realism and care.

Discussion ongoing now concerns figuring out some smaller decisions like lands and attractions.

 

[spacemt354]

DISNEY'S LOST WORLDS
Park Land Concept Rankings
​

*Ultimately for this summary the ideas for all 8 lands will be discussed, however here are everyone's rankings for which they like the most.

@nated1226
1. Arabian Lost City
2. Atlantis/Mt. Olympus
3. El Dorado
4. Wakanda
5. Shangri-La
6. Camelot
7. Antarctica

@Disneylover152
1) Entrance/Lighthouse of Alexandria Icon: this seems like it could be such a cool area of the park with all the potential it has. It can take the port of entry in Islands to a whole new level. I love the idea and we can have a lot of hidden pathways and hidden gems with some interesting architecture! I would really love to work on this land for this project as well!

2) Atlantis: This land is another land that has a lot of potential with attractions, acting as the "Mermaid Lagoon" of the park. We can also host some interesting water attractions here as well as winding pathways, a children's playground, edutainment attractions, and more! A Tower of Terror style ride could work in this land at the park too! Maybe a Little Mermaid attraction? The possibilities for this land is endless!

3) Arabian Lost City: A lost city always interests me and this area sounds like it could have a wide variety of experiences, from shows to A-tickets to E-tickets. Aladdin and Indiana Jones would work well in this area and we could design some interesting rides for those IPs in this area, while also designing original E-tickets.

4) Antartica/Hallow Earth: This land has some potential and while it's not a lost land, we can really create an original fictional story about how their used to be humans on Antartica. This story can bring some interesting abandoned ice buildings and streets to walk around as well as a few rides.

5) Shangri-La

6) Camelot

7) El Dorado

8) Wakanda: I personally don't like this idea like @spacemt354 ... it has no correlation to the park's theme or lands. An area fully based on an IP is not the issue, it's just that this IP doesn't fit the parks message at all.

@Pionmycake
1. Shangri-La (though I'd combine it with Lemuria and make it a Southeast Asian jungle with Shangri-La and Lemuria attractions but not fully dedicated to either)
2. Atlantis/Mt. Olympus (again, combine these two as they feel too similar to me to justify splitting)
3. Antarctica (as a gateway to a hollow earth/dinosaur land I could work really interestingly in my mind if done right)
4. Wakanda (While I'm usually not big on single IP lands, Wakanda just feels oddly right to me in this project)
5. El Dorado
6. Camelot (not sure how Camelot is a lost world? But an English/European fantasy land with dragons and fairies could be great)
7. Arabian Lost City

@OutboundFlight
1. Shangri-La
2. El Dorado
3. Atlantis
4. Antarctica
5. Camelot
6. Wakanda
7. Mt. Olympus
8. Arabian Lost City

@spacemt354
1. Shangri-La: Feels like it could be the identity land of the park - really so many directions it can go in
2. Arabian Lost City: Has IP potential if some want it while not sticking out like a sore thumb, could mix Aladdin or Indy without batting an eye, while still having the flexibility of designing our own town settings/villages.
3. Hollow Earth: aka Antarctica (this name bothers me because it isn't lost) but the idea of traveling beneath the earth in a multi-level indoor land almost, sounds amazing.
4. Entrance/Lighthouse of Alexandria Icon: This feels like it has some great potential.
5. Atlantis: (with/without Mt. Olympus) I could take it or leave it, this can be explored but I feel it's not as unique as some of our other options.
6. Camelot: No real opinion.
7. El Dorado: No real opinion
8. Wakanda: I've mentioned it before but I just don't see how it fits with the other lands/themes we are going for.

 

[spacemt354]

DISNEY'S LOST WORLDS - LAND SPECIFIC CONCEPTS

Map By @WowFactor

--ENTRANCE LAND PITCHES--​

@TJJohn12
I'm really liking the concept of a adventurer's supply / jungle outpost main street. I'm visualizing it as a sort of linear Adventureland, with the emporium on one side as an adventure supply company, and the opposite being a collection of "museums" and specialty shops, along with buildings that look like tents and whatnot.

@PerGronStudio
Weird idea, but what if the entrance area just was Alexandria (maybe not modern but ancient). It could host the lighthouse as the weenie, some museums, and maybe make a dark ride about the history of culture and mythology based on nature (ala Spaceship Earth esque) in the library. Use that at the hub for exploring the lost worlds as really the only place that may have had definitive proof of these lands was the library that burned down...

@kap91
I do like the idea of the entrance on the whole though. It sound's like a bit of an explorer's utopia - with people who respect and have learned from the past. I also like the idea of Alexandria a lot because of its inherent symbolism (though I'm not sure if this translates to a Chinese audience?). I think it would make a lot of sense if this entrance was a new Alexandria, set in the future, built on the ruins of the old Alexandria - at harmony with nature now that it's been reclaimed. This new Alexandria of course could still use the chinese and himalayan architecture/village look you were thinking of course. It's in the future, and it's at harmony with nature, maybe harmony with all humans and its an eclectic blend of peoples from all over.

@DlpPhantom
Alexandria could be an incredible entrance land with the light house out in a bay at the center of the park. The trade hub of the ancient world is are gateway to enter it.

@Pionmycake
The Forgotten Jungle

A very natural feeling jungle environment inspired by Southeast Asia (mainly India and Tibet regions). The same regions that influence the Asia section of Animal Kingdom. Incorporating past ideas we've had like Shangri-La, Lemuria, and the Base Camps

This is a very very rough broad map.

Orange is the main path. A bit winding to control and pace the reveal of new exciting structures. To the left side of the path is mostly ruins of ancient temples reclaimed by nature over the last few centuries. To the right side of the path is a forbidden mountain range not found on any maps. Along the path there are no signs of any civilization or human settlements for hundreds of years. Except, of course, the base camps set up by explorers from around the world throughout history who have sought to explore this mysterious land. Their mostly abandoned camps now serve as stores and restaurants for adventures foolish enough to enter this land still. Explorers like us.

Green is an animal trail not unlike the Maharajah Jungle Trek from DAk featuring local animals in ruins they've taken over.

Brown (directly across from the animal trails) is a ropes course/playground with caves to explore at the base of the mountains.

Blue is actually two things. First up is either @ThatGuyFromFlorida's Jungle Book Dark Ride or some other kind of B/C-Ticket attraction that can be housed in the ruins. Then, bordering the "HUB" is a river rapids ride themed to a quest to find Lemuria (the Indian legendary lost continent that was previously discussed as a possibility for a land).

Red is essentially Shangri-La. A larger mountain show building housing two attactions. First is a C-Ticket dark ride themed to Journey to the West (some suggested suspended, others said boat. I'm impartial). Then, with an entrance bordering the "HUB" is an Expedition Everest type coaster through the upper parts of the mountain show building themed to an exploration to find Shangri-La.


This entry land would serve as almost a reverse funnel. With attractions and shops lining it the ramp up in scale and excitement (A-Tickets, to C-Tickets, to D/E-Tickets). Inviting guests to travel onwards and join these explorations. The Basecamps of previous explorers fron around the world throughout historyallow us to add some international flair smoothly and naturally as well have a very unique shops and dining that fit the themes.

The winding paths helps pace the reveals. First it is mostly trees and tents. Then you see more ruins. Then it bends again to see mountains. Then it opens up to the HUB

The hub would be a large lake with ships from different explorers from around the world and throughout history docked at the edge of the water. A makeshift port at the jungle's entrance that various explorers and adventurers have used. Guests may even ride in one or two of the ships.

The impression icon of the park is seen across the water. On the other side of the lagoon. An intriguing sight beckoning guests to come find it. Either a recreation of or something inspired by the Alexandria lighthouse! A goal for guests to find to start them on the adventure given without any instructions or written advice. All visual and atmospheric storytelling!

@D Hindley
Base camp entry land - A village where explorers leave to discover the lost worlds, home to artifact museums, libraries, supply warehouses and other exploration aides.

Some have discussed doing Old Hong Kong as the entry, to satisfy local nostalgia. Ocean Park basically already has this land. Instead I propose something inspired by vintage Southern China mixed with a bit of Thailand - that's the most popular international destination for Chinese tourists so it holds a familiar appeal. Also a bit of a Himalayan foothill village vibe.

While we're discussing dividing most lands into a "local village" and the "lost world" beyond it, this entry land will be just the former.

@FireMountain - Jungle Area
So once upon a time, there was a group of people that worshiped an ancient deity (name can be decided later). They cared for it so much that they built a temple dedicated to it. But one day, they all disappeared and were never seen again, lost to history. You walk through a jungle trail and end up at their temple, so you go inside and do the attractions, each one slowly unravels the story about what their story, the being they praised, and what happened to them.

@deere839
how about for the entrance do some sort of interactive game kind of like the pirate game in Magic Kingdom but base it off Indiana Jones and the temple of doom it would be nice to see more indiana jones coming to the Disney parks and this way it would be a cheap and fun thing to do for the guest in the park without waiting in the lines could also be thrown into other lands like finding an artifact in the land and scan your game card you get at the start.

 

[spacemt354]

CAMELOT LAND PITCHES​

@Evilgidgit
I thought, being British, I might throw out some ideas for Camelot, since that's getting no love.

Now according to Wikipedia, Camelot is listed as a lost city. But, Camelot may be a bit limited, since you have King Arthur's tales and that's it. And we do want to incorporate elements of Beastly Kingdom in there.

So, why not reimagine Camelot as Avalon - okay it still ties in the Arthurian legends, specifically being an island where he rests til Britain needs him again. In the real world, the island suspected to have been based on Glastonbury Tor. Legend wise, this was wear Excalibur was forged, and apparently elves live on the island. Now, this doesn't necessarily have to be imagined as an island, but my idea is that it could be a place of "myths and legends" associated with British culture dwell for eternity. This would allow the land to act as a fantasy realm, paying homage to the lost kingdom of Camelot, to Beastly Kingdom, and to folklore from across the UK (and use Brave).

Guests could enter through the ruins of an English castle, finding hints of its true origins til one enters through an archway, revealing the medieval castle of Avalon (or possibly a replica of the Glastonbury Tor). We should use that trackless tapestry King Arthur dark ride suggested before. Other ideas:
--A Stonehenge-like monument which is both entertainment and education where guests learn of Celtic mythology and culture.
--I can imagine the dragon coaster as not one but TWO duelling coasters on both sides of the castle fort, paying homage to the Red Dragon of Wales and the White Dragon of the Anglo-Saxons.
--The Secret of the Unicorn.
--A Brave (or Robin Hood) archery stage show.
--At least two "warring" traditional British village pubs.
--Perhaps a creepy indoor dark ride based around an encouter with the Beast of Bodmin.

I can imagine the stores and other restaurants being owned or run by figures of British myths, stories, Shakespearean plays, etc. Throwing out a few examples - St. George, Beowulf, Spring Heeled Jack, nursery rhyme characters, you get the picture.

But, that's just me. With perhaps enough imagination, immersive theming and variety, this land coud - dare I say it - rival The Wizarding World of Harry Potter! Yeah, I can dream!

And here are some British castles to provide visual ideas.

Conwy Castle, Wales

Restormel Castle, England

Lulworth Castle, England

@D Hindley
Camelot - Here's a way to bring in old Beastlie Kingdomme ideas if we wish. Like the dragon coaster. Some talk has occurred about a King Arthur dark ride - I'm thinking trackless like Runaway Railway with a similar 2.5-D effect of traveling through stylized medieval manuscripts and tapestries. No extra thought put into this yet. Could be set along the ocean with a Giant's Causeway coastal appearance.

 

[spacemt354]

--ANTARCTICA/HOLLOW EARTH PITCHES--
​

@orlando678-
It would be cool to include Inuit mythology somehow though(i know thats technically not antarctica but still represents arctic regions)

@Evilgidgit
I have my own ideas and concept for Antarctica. I believe it would be good to have a variety of different environments, and the hollow earth dinosaur world I had in mind can literally be labelled as a "lost world" - which is the very name of this imaginary theme park. I've spent the past eight hours trying to come up with ideas and a backstory for the Antarctica land (insert name here). There isn't a Seaworld in China so I don't see why a park on the other side of the world would have any impact or relevance to Hong Kong's second gate. I feel the idea of taking guests out of the hot Hong Kong environment and into the beautiful yet mysterious icy realm of Antarctica would be a great idea. A landscape without any actual human cities. One left entirely to nature.

Anyway, my story idea is to tie it into S.E.A. with there being a research outpost owned by an eccentric, adventurous billionaire (owner of Seven Peak Expeditions) who is also a mountain climber and believes in the theory of Hollow Earth. He discovers traces of an underground subglacial lake in the area near a mountain he has scaled (Matterhorn sized and likely with a similar bobsled coaster), and builds a giant drilling machine to reach this underground area, drilling through many caves in search for it. Taking a little inspiration from DisneySea's Journey ride, guests take a wrong turn and end up finding the lake, complete with a thriving, secluded ecosystem of dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures (all of whom would be actual Antarctic dinosaurs).

Another attraction I have is the peculiar, haunting sight of half of a large 19th expedition ship sticking out of the mountainside, housing a walkthrough/simulator where guests explores the large shipwreck and uncover the supernatural story of how it got frozen in the ice - taking inspiration from Lovecraft - but also poses the idea that what the guests are seeing and experiencing may just be hallucinations due to the cold, and it is left up to the imagination what actually happened.

And, if we also want to include animals within the park then an Antarctic environment would be the perfect place to house a penguin preserve.

@ThatGuyFromFlorida
I have an idea for antartica. what about an underground civilization?

@David2319
The Antarctica idea might be something worth surrounding things with like Mysterious Island does. I feel like it might give that vibe off, and a sort of steampunk land could be cool. Nevertheless, extremely original.

 

[spacemt354]

--ARABIAN CITY PITCHES--​

@orlando678-
I feel like this area screams for an amazing attraction simulating the sense of flying on top of a magic carpet, either with or without links to aladdin.

If we are actually going with the Arabian lost city of Ubar, also known as the Atlantis of the Sands, it would be interesting to actually go for a more Persian theme, as that is what its realistically more related to than to its arabian background. If so, we could possibly use the legends of the manticore, Rostam (the most popular figure in Persian mythology) and the yazats(lesser Gods).

@D Hindley
An Arabian lost city (need to research names better - this name turns out is a real city in Oman). An option for representing a different culture in a unique desert setting, with inspirations maybe from Petra, Babylon, Egypt, and the Wadi Rum desert. No additional ideas for this one yet. Disney's Aladdin elements?

Since HKDL has no Peter Pan’s Flight, I propose we use an Aladdin dark ride to fill that role. Think that’d be more appropriate for this land than a carpet spinner (esp. as we’ve discussed alternates like a Pegasus spinner in Greece).

Additionally, while Indiana Jones fits any land well, I think he’d fit here the best. I’m imagining an Indiana Jones Adventure EMV clone set in an Egyptian temple, with elements of Petra and Babylon folded in.

This sets it apart from Disneyland’s (Cambodian) and DisneySea’s (Mesoamerican), with another iconic ancient ruin setting.

This choice would set the land in the 1930s, likely, dictating the overall tone. A smaller (B-ticket) attraction to accompany it could be an archeological-themed playground akin to DAK’s Boneyard, shaded and chilled.

We're possibly getting pretty filled up with coasters, between this and an Expedition Everest variant in Shangri-La, and perhaps a dragon coaster in the UK area. But it's still something to consider.

@PerGronStudio in response to above
I think if we use those 3 we’d be good on coasters. The Chinese markets do like their coasters enough to warrant 3. Maybe do the dragon one Suspended to switch it up a little bit so it’s not so redundant.

 

[spacemt354]

--SHANGRI-LA PITCHES--​

@D Hindley
Picturing this as set entirely within a lush mountain valley, somewhat like how DisneySea's Mysterious Island is laid out. Accessed from the entry land via mountain passes and tunnels. Maybe make our mountains U-shaped and facing the real mountains north of the site.

@PerGronStudio
So as the resident animal nerd, I came up with a basic idea for an animal walkthrough that goes around the perimeter of the land with attractions built into the land itself. The reason I did this was to allow animal care facilities to sit behind the exhibits without interrupting show buildings. Now of course, as we design we can modify this to fit our plans, but that is my general beginning.

I also limited myself to Chinese and Indian Subcontinent animals only (with a few Indonesian animals thrown in such as Komodo Dragons and Malayan Tapirs because I love those species personally).

I featured a few main areas of interest, such as a large hoofstock paddock where Water Buffalo, Deer, and antelope species can live, a walk-through aviary for small birds, pheasants, and waterfowl, and a large panda breeding complex since China loves their pandas. I can post a full list of species if you’d like (and we can cut/add as we see fit, really only a few MUST HAVES like tigers and pandas).

@Voxel
I feel like this would be a great area to put a hands on experience with a ropes course, zipline, rock climbing, etc. Maybe have it even interact with a ride so the riders of the ride can see the ppl climbing towards the treasure.

@orlando678-
I feel like Shangri-La could host some pretty amazing attractions, next to the mentioned expedition everest type rollercoaster, i feel like a dark boat ride in which guests travel through a spirit forest where they encounter mythical creatures and figures from chinese and south east asian folklore and a gondola flume ride going past paradise-like waterfalls (maybe including a water deity or dragon as a main character in the attraction) would be pretty cool.

 

[spacemt354]

--ATLANTIS/MT. OLYMPUS--
--WAKANDA--
Not fully discussed as of 8/21/18​

 

[MickeyMousketeer]

--ATLANTIS/MT. OLYMPUS--
--WAKANDA--
Not fully discussed as of 8/21/18​

I believe we are having a tie in of Atlantis, right? Mt. Olympus would be a great thing to turn into a land.

As for Wakanda, think bits of the movie and the culture. We could focus Wakanda on more of the culture side, instead of having direct tie-ins to the movie. It would be kind of like Pandora, where they dot bits of the movie into the land's attractions.

Although this might be boring for younger children, isn't this park here to explore different cultures and myths? After all, this is supposed to be the great second gate of HKD.

This is just some of my tiny input, and we don't have to bring it all in.