Disneyland's Plummeting Numbers

cherrynegra

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Found this at savedisney and at miceage and thought I'd share.

Plummeting Numbers

As summer kicks in to high gear at Disneyland, the execs out in the Team Disney Anaheim (TDA) building behind the Park are starting to get a little nervous. Anyone who has visited either Anaheim theme park in the last six weeks has noticed that it hasn't been very crowded this summer. The weak numbers, including the surprisingly tepid response to Tower of Terror in May, were first written off with the "wait until school lets out" excuse. California Adventure (DCA) has been no stranger to the "Wait until..." line when it comes to explaining away its low attendance figures. But schools have been out for weeks now, the national media have been running stories announcing that this is the busiest summer travel season in American history, and still the traditional summer crowds have not materialized.

The first real sign of attendance trouble came three weeks ago when on a sunny Saturday in mid June Disneyland had its first Saturday attendance total that was below 40,000 customers in 20 years. For the last two decades, even during the very slow and chilly months of January and February, Disneyland has been able to tally up at least 40,000 visitors on Saturdays throughout the year. But on that Saturday in June, Disneyland only had 39,000 customers come through the gates.

A couple weeks after that shockingly low Saturday tally came in, Disneyland and DCA had a very slow 4th of July. Instead of the 68,000 to 72,000 people that have historically packed Disneyland on the 4th, the attendance planners glumly looked into their dimming crystal ball and decided that Disneyland would only pull in 57,000 people this year, even though the 4th was on a Sunday this year and everyone had the next day off. DCA was given a very conservative 4th of July attendance estimate of 20,000. Those low attendance estimates had Anaheim old timers shocked, and the kicker came when Disneyland planned for a regular Midnight closing time instead of the 2 am closing time it had historically offered on the 4th of July for decades.

As if the low attendance estimates weren't disappointing enough, both Parks failed to even pull in their lowered estimates on the 4th this year. At the end of the night when the turnstile clicks were all tallied up, Disneyland pulled in just a few hundred people over the 50,000 mark, and DCA barely managed to get 16,500 people in for the day. Those two number combined don't even equal the 4th of July attendances Disneyland used to pull in on its own before DCA was built, and they certainly don't bode well for an expanded "Resort" trying to build an even larger customer base. And those 4th of July numbers came after a very slow July 2nd and 3rd, where Disneyland barely pulled in 40,000 each day and DCA remained in the mid teens. (Even with a notable increase in Japanese tour group bookings.)

Looking at the data, it's been clearly obvious from the demographics that locals have been staying away this summer in record numbers. And what has TDA execs worried is that Anaheim is now reaping the seeds sown by three years in a row of previously unheard of summer discount promotions that slashed ticket prices for locals and/or let their kids in to DCA for free. Those summertime discounts were at first aimed squarely at DCA, especially with the free children's tickets, and they were paired up with the now infamous entertainment promotions like Rockin' The Bay from '02 or the tacky XGames from '03.

But as the day-tripping locals stay away in droves this summer while the SoCal economy remains in very healthy condition, TDA is coming to the realization that those previous big summer discounts and marketing gimmicks are coming home to roost. Locals seem to now be trained to expect discounts at Anaheim's Disney parks, even during the summer months when Disneyland historically never offered them. And since those discounts have failed to materialize this summer, the day-tripping locals have stayed away so far.
 

cherrynegra

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Here's the second part of the story.

There is one exception though...

Too Many Passholders

One local demographic that has not shied away from the parks is the Annual Passholders (APs). And that's actually a big surprise to TDA and Marketing. It's been no surprise to regular readers of this website that Matt Ouimet feels that the Annual Passes are extremely underpriced at their current levels, and he has been given approval from Jay Rasulo to simultaneously get the AP prices up and the AP population down before the 50th Anniversary starts. The first step in that process was seen this past spring when prices for all AP's were raised as much as 20%, and a new cheap AP classification was added with a long list of blockout dates attached to it. But the results of that maneuver were not at all what was expected.

TDA's marketing department had convinced the execs that a raise in the price of the Premium and Deluxe AP's would see a related decrease in their numbers as people's AP renewal dates came up. But while a very few people grumbled a bit about the price increases, they only grumbled while they reached for their wallets in record numbers to renew or upgrade their pass. The big jump in prices hasn't deterred anyone from renewing yet, and not only have the number of AP holders not decreased, they've actually increased substantially in the last two months!

The number of AP holders has now risen solidly above the 600,000 mark, after breaking the 500,000 mark in 2003. And with renewals and upgrades continuing unabated, and tens of thousands of brand new customers buying the cheap SoCal (locals) pass now being offered, the ranks of AP holders are only growing instead of declining. And if past practices are any indication, those new customers who are buying the cheap SoCal pass will upgrade their pass within a year as they get hooked on the incredible entertainment bargain a Disneyland AP represents.

This turn of events has not only proven to the new executive team that the prices for Disneyland Resort AP's were underpriced in their opinion, but that it will be even more difficult than they thought to wean many people off of their AP's before the 50th starts. And that's really the main concern here as TDA worries about a park overrun with half a million or more AP holders intent on seeing all of the new shows and rides that will be rolled out for the 50th. (And don't count on any AP discounts for the hotels on the 50th either.) It's been back to the drawing board for the marketing department, while the execs simultaneously worry about a sharp decline in the profitable full-fare day ticket sales while AP sales continue through the roof.

Rest assured we haven't seen the last of big jumps in the price of AP's, or perhaps a even a radical rethink of the entire AP program, before the 50th festivities begin next spring.
 

LadyDarling

New Member
I would have to argue the validity of that first report from 1st had visiting experience. June 20th - 21st, it was VERY busy. By VERY busy, I mean, ToT had a 50 minute line. Same for most the the headliners thoughout the weekend. And that was a Sunday and Monday. It seems like a lot of folks went out over Father's Day.
 

xfkirsten

New Member
It REALLY depends on what day you go, honestly. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I went on June 16th (a Wed), and it was packed. I went last Monday, and it was deserted.

I find it funny that they whine about low attendance and too many APs in the same article. :lol: At least SOMEONE is in the park!

That being said, they need to ditch the SoCal APs. From personal experience, I find crowds to have a much better overall attitude on SoCal blackout days, regardless of how crowded it is. My theory is that many locals who could really care less about the park or the Disney Magic buy the SoCal passes just so they have a place to hang out over the summer, and buy the SoCal pass just because it's cheap. When they go to the parks, they just don't bring a Disney attitude, and they're RUDE. I think if they ditched the SoCal passes, they'd lose a lot of people that are like that. They'd kill two birds with one stone: lower the number of APs like they want, and improve the general attitude in the parks.

-Kirsten
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Al Lutz always says the Disneyland Resort numbers are low...it's been crowded at both DCA and DL most of the times I've visited, though
 

CubbieMan

New Member
I am sure that they exaggerated and only told thier side of the story...showing the numbers that would emphasis thier point. However that being said...I would expect attendence to be somewhat lower then normal...I am sure many people want to hold off till th 50th anniversary. In fact I would think record numbers next year. As I'm sure many of the people who stick with WDW may switch coastlines for the 50th celebration
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
CubbieMan said:
I am sure that they exaggerated and only told thier side of the story...showing the numbers that would emphasis thier point. However that being said...I would expect attendence to be somewhat lower then normal...I am sure many people want to hold off till th 50th anniversary. In fact I would think record numbers next year. As I'm sure many of the people who stick with WDW may switch coastlines for the 50th celebration
Exactly. With all the refurbishments going on at Disneyland, this is not exactly a prime time to visit.
 

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
Perfect exmple of thinking with a calculator and not their brains.

OK, you have a group of people. Most of them really enjoy Disneyland and would pay to enter. A smaller portion thinks it's nice if the price is right.

You have an occasional attendance price, and a program for frequent visitors that is cheaper due to volume. So to make more money you increase the daily attendance price. So what happens? The occasional guests simply doesn't attend, while those who actually want to go simply purchase the annual pass now because it is a better bargain for them. And so to justify the amount they spend on it, they start going more often but have to spend less on their extra spending in the parks.
 

Disneyland1970

New Member
I know that WDW had a Play 4 days ticket for locals. Maybe DLR would benefit with this type of ticket if they dont have this already. I think WDW has this again this summer, we are AP's this year so I havent paid attention.
The tickets were good up to Sept I think?! Gets the locals in but isnt long term if you want to get rid of them.

We are going in 2005 for a return to DL!! I think the 50th is going to be a crazy, but fun time for the park. I can't wait to see it all cleaned up! The pictures I have seen look great.

I agree with Kirsten that the locals really change the feel of the park. Being from CA, I can say that! The locals are rude and treat you like you are bugging them by being there. Same attitude as they have on the freeway :)
Hmmm Pixie Dust the 5??
 

Pixiedust124

New Member
Disneyland

My first visit to Disneyland was 2003 and I found it wonderful although not as friendly as Walt Disney World. We are looking forward tio a return trip next summer for the 50th anniversary celebration and our 7th Disney Cruise. There was no problem with a clean park and extremely clean surrounding area.

Pixiedust124
 

xfkirsten

New Member
Disneyland1970 said:
I agree with Kirsten that the locals really change the feel of the park. Being from CA, I can say that! The locals are rude and treat you like you are bugging them by being there. Same attitude as they have on the freeway :)
Hmmm Pixie Dust the 5??

Freeways here, you REALLY take your life in your hands! :lol: My dad can't even drive here when he comes to visit - he just can't handle the way people drive in SoCal. Pixie Dust sounds like a good option - if I think happy thoughts maybe my car wiill fly overe all the traffic jams while I'm at it. ;)

I think most of the people who spend the extra money on a Deluxe or a Premium pass do so because they really want to be in the parks. They're not just there because it's cheap, they're there because they love it. For the most part, anyways.

-Kirsten
 

stranger

New Member
xfkirsten said:
I think most of the people who spend the extra money on a Deluxe or a Premium pass do so because they really want to be in the parks. They're not just there because it's cheap, they're there because they love it. For the most part, anyways.

-Kirsten

I don't agree. The first two or 3 years I couldn't afford a deluxe or premium pass, but the So. Cal pass was perfect for me and many people I know. I've met many people at the parks and school with So. Cal passes and was told they thought it was a deal because paying just a regular admission to the park seem like a waste of money and too expensive just for one day. With the So. CAl pass they felt they can enjoy the parks almost anytime and not feel ripped off. Sometimes money just gets in the way of love :animwink: :lol:

Disneyland will be a local spot because the Disneyland Resort is not a full fledge resort where people can vacation a week or longer. All we have are two parks, 3 hotels, and DTD. This calls out more for 2-4 day stay at the resort. Disneyland relys more on the locals for buisness.
Besides, rarely have I seen a rude APer. There are a few out there who give us a bad name. :animwink:
 

xfkirsten

New Member
stranger said:
I don't agree. The first two or 3 years I couldn't afford a deluxe or premium pass, but the So. Cal pass was perfect for me and many people I know. I've met many people at the parks and school with So. Cal passes and was told they thought it was a deal because paying just a regular admission to the park seem like a waste of money and too expensive just for one day. With the So. CAl pass they felt they can enjoy the parks almost anytime and not feel ripped off. Sometimes money just gets in the way of love :animwink: :lol:

Disneyland will be a local spot because the Disneyland Resort is not a full fledge resort where people can vacation a week or longer. All we have are two parks, 3 hotels, and DTD. This calls out more for 2-4 day stay at the resort. Disneyland relys more on the locals for buisness.
Besides, rarely have I seen a rude APer. There are a few out there who give us a bad name. :animwink:

Oh, I'm certainly not saying all SoCal APers are bad. There's many that are great! But unfortunately I've seen way too many rude APers. I have a friend who isn't sure she wants to come back to DL because rude and disrespective APers were ruining her trip at every turn. I agree, sometimes you just can't afford more. I know that all too well. However, that low price is exactly what attracts the uncaring crowd, as well. I think having to fork over more money for a pass will make the uncaring people really think twice about it. Unfortunately, that also means that people who can't afford a Deluxe/Premium but really love the parks will be left out, but if that's the cost of keeping crowd attitude polite, I'll take it any day. And you're hearning this from someone who is forgoing FOOD to save money to renew her DL pass, so it's not like it's really affordable for me, either. :p

-Kirsten
 

Disneyland1970

New Member
I agree that the price needs to be raised. Let the Knotts/ Magic Mountain parks keep the ROWDYS! I always felt that DL attracted a more Family oriented crowd, but on my last trip in 2001. I noticed that the majority of the crowd was locals. and something was missing from the atmosphere. I also thought maybe with the BUDGET CUTS , they did not have the people to keep the crowds in order.
 

LadyDarling

New Member
xfkirsten said:
It REALLY depends on what day you go, honestly. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I went on June 16th (a Wed), and it was packed. I went last Monday, and it was deserted.

I find it funny that they whine about low attendance and too many APs in the same article. :lol: At least SOMEONE is in the park!

That being said, they need to ditch the SoCal APs. From personal experience, I find crowds to have a much better overall attitude on SoCal blackout days, regardless of how crowded it is. My theory is that many locals who could really care less about the park or the Disney Magic buy the SoCal passes just so they have a place to hang out over the summer, and buy the SoCal pass just because it's cheap. When they go to the parks, they just don't bring a Disney attitude, and they're RUDE. I think if they ditched the SoCal passes, they'd lose a lot of people that are like that. They'd kill two birds with one stone: lower the number of APs like they want, and improve the general attitude in the parks.

-Kirsten

I agree with you 100%. One thing I trouble with Disneyland's local, is that it's right in the middle of a big city. Disneyworld is somewhat set apart from the local community, but you can get a lot of trouble-markers who don't have anything better to do than ruin someone's vacation.

~Jay
 

Disneynutcase

New Member
I was at DL on the 4th of July. Took the wife and kids to celebrate good grades and to do something special for the holiday, and went anticipating horrible crowds. We weren't sure what to expect, and warned the kids that we may only be able to do a few rides since we weren't going to arrive to the park until 1:00pm. A good friend of ours had their baby baptised that AM, so we didn't leave for our day of fun until noon.

In fact, when we got to the parking structure, I warned the kids that DL might be so crowded that we may be forced to do DCA instead.

We discovered that DL was not crowded at all. Only Splash Mountain had a normalishly long wait. Everything else was ten minutes to an hour. We were able to do 5 rides with Fast Pass, did fourteen attractions total, saw the Snow White Show, took a break for dinner, and both fireworks show in 10 1/2 hours. It wasn't crowded at all.

Oh yeah, and for some reason we kept running into Gary Sinese and his family on three separate rides. On the third occaision as I passed I casually asked him who was manning mission control. It took him a second, but then he said, "It's a holiday, man. Disney let me have the day off!"

I've been at DL on a random March Saturday and it's been more crowded, but that was three or four years ago.

I think the low attendance problem may be because one day ticket prices are getting too high and are driving people away. And multi-day tickets force you to use all days you purchase in a 13 day period (which I a friggin' rip off!)So Cal locals have many other options, and with USH offering the Revenge of the Mummy and a coke can $15.00 discount, Knotts offering $25.00 for adults $9-12.00 for kids, and Six Flags now offering a coke can discount, plus new attractions in all San Diego parks (with discounts available at grocery stores and some fast food chains), people are going elsewhere.

Oh yeah, and I seriously think that having Space Mountain down for such a lengthy time is hurting attendance. I live in So Cal, and I know a lot of people who are skipping a trip to DL this year to wait til next year when everything--especially Space Mountain--re-opens.

In fact, even before this thread, I've had several conversations with friends who claim that DL has gone downhill in terms of quality and value over the last 10 years, who also complained that a lot has been removed from DL and not replaced (or replaced with inferior attractions).
 

xfkirsten

New Member
Disneynutcase said:
In fact, even before this thread, I've had several conversations with friends who claim that DL has gone downhill in terms of quality and value over the last 10 years, who also complained that a lot has been removed from DL and not replaced (or replaced with inferior attractions).

I agree.

*cough*Winnie the Pooh*cough*

:lol:

-Kirsten
 

Disneynutcase

New Member
Now wait a second. I just did the Pooh Bear ride for a second time--first time was last December. As much as I seriously miss the Country Bears (particularly at Christmas...I mean I just can't hear "Winter Wonderland" w/o singing it like Big Al), the Pooh Bear ride I consider a lateral--a C-ticket for a C-ticket attraction. And I actually liked the ride a lot better the second time around.

But...here's my digression...the other thing my friends and I agree to rag on DL of late is that they have removed all the mass guest swallower attractions. In the last decade, there is no more CBJ, Golden Horseshoe Review, CircleVision, Mission to Mars (very dated), nothing much of value in the old CoP building, no People Mover, and nothing in an empty theater that once housed the Hunchback show.

On crowded days, this leaves long lines and a choice of the Tiki Room, GMWML, and HISTA (and maybe now the Snow White show) as crowd swallowers. I hate that the park is becoming all 3-10 minute attactions with longish to very long lines.

Pooh Bear, and in fact a lot of park expansion, could've gone into the Big Thunder Ranch area with maybe some kind of update of CBJ (God forbid in conjuction with the dreaded movie).

And hasn't Pooh Bear been considered a mild flop? As I've learned in Real Estate classes, location, location, location. It's nice to have a kid-friendly attraction in this corner of the park, but it's a shlep to get there. Having it ajacent to Fantasyland would've made more sense in my opinion.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom