DisneylandForward

[Darkbeer1]

I'm still surprised only one hotel project on Toy Story Lot is proposed. 3 theme parks and only 3 hotels. That's leaving a lot of money on the table unless they add adjoining hotel towers to existing hotels. The Grand Californian can use another new wing. Or consider the Eastern Gateway with a hotel to replace the former government building.

NOTHING is proposed. They can build 8 Hotels, or none. There might be a cap on the amount of Hotel Rooms that are allowed. Will DVC units count? Will it have a separate number?

All Disney has done is show some Blue Sky ideas, mainly cut and paste.

 

[el_super]

I don't really think the Eastern gateway is all about expanding capacity but more about pushing the gateway and security area away from it being so close to the park entrances. Pushing it out also means more room to spread out crowd instead of the compacted area they have now crushed between shuttle waiting areas and security gates.

It was always about capacity. The money that was being budgeted for the eastern gateway plans (including moving the transport hub and building the bridge) was always going to be dependent on moving X number of people to that side of the resort. Long term planning for the third gate meant having more parking on the eastern side pf the resort, so in 2017, it would have made sense.

In 2021, we now have 6,000 more spaces on the western side and additional security capacity on that side. We have a third park concept that is in limbo, the elimination of Annual passes, and money spent on the increased security capacity in Toy Story Lot.

They aren't going to spend a massive amount of money building a parking structure and bridge for a few hundred extra cars a day.

Which isn't to say they can't utilize that space. They can continue to utilize it as Cast Parking and free up space in the current parking structures. They can also reconfigure the transportation hub and security checks. But the amount spent on it will be a fraction of what they planned originally because they already spent that money on Pixal Pals.

Disney doesn't need something that big or shiny for the Olympics, honestly. If they focus on getting the Eastern Gateway built (which, again, is their main goal here), they'd probably then focus on adding something smaller to what they have.

If the eastern gateway was their main goal, why not simply submit for it now, when all you need is planning commission approval, instead of setting up a long term fight to configure the entire west side of the DRSP? It seems as though this new western gateway is their priority. If they were trying to combine the two efforts they should know that they have a greater chance of failing by requesting a wholesale change rather than just submitting the one portion that likely would have been approved for the last two years.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the eastern gateway was their main goal, why not simply submit for it now, when all you need is planning commission approval, instead of setting up a long term fight to configure the entire west side of the DRSP?

Because they can get it now. Why risk another hiccup with approvals if you can just be done with them? That was the whole purpose behind the Specific Plan in the first place and why jurisdictions around the country even allow for master plan approval, to lock in approval now instead of stymieing long planned development.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

The big question on everyone's mind:

What happens to the Alpine Inn?

 

[Disneyland/DCA]

Can they crane it over to the old motorboat cruise area? That'd make a nice Frozen II miniland

 

[el_super]

Because they can get it now. Why risk another hiccup with approvals if you can just be done with them?

Sure... But the eastern gateway is a plan that the city can take action on today. What they are asking for is something that will take years of lawyering to change, which again signals that they have bigger priorities than the parking structure.

The one thing I am surprised Darkbeer hasn't mentioned yet is how, their public plans for developing the western flank, will end up hurting their position in keeping the land for the third gate whole. By shifting priorities to the west now, they may end up permanently surrendering the land for the third gate.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Sure... But the eastern gateway is a plan that the city can take action on today. What they are asking for is something that will take years of lawyering to change, which again signals that they have bigger priorities than the parking structure.

The one thing I am surprised Darkbeer hasn't mentioned yet is how, their public plans for developing the western flank, will end up hurting their position in keeping the land for the third gate whole. By shifting priorities to the west now, they may end up permanently surrendering the land for the third gate.

The Eastern Gateway is a relatively sure thing. They're not concerned about it for that reason. It's old news.

But after the very-hostile-to-Disney Anaheim leadership from a few years ago, and the pandemic perhaps reminding Anaheim that Disneyland brings lots of dollars to their doorstep suddenly contributing to Disney-positive feelings among those that matter, Disney would be foolish not to take advantage of the current moment to try and make things easier and more flexible for them down the road.

If you were Disney, why wouldn't you try to give yourself more options and flexibility now that everyone in power has been reminded *exactly* how important you are to the town's bottom line after more than a year of closure?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sure... But the eastern gateway is a plan that the city can take action on today. What they are asking for is something that will take years of lawyering to change, which again signals that they have bigger priorities than the parking structure.

I don’t think they need or want the eastern garage right away but since they know it’ll be a fight, then why not try and avoid it and future fights now while the opportunity exists?

The one thing I am surprised Darkbeer hasn't mentioned yet is how, their public plans for developing the western flank, will end up hurting their position in keeping the land for the third gate whole. By shifting priorities to the west now, they may end up permanently surrendering the land for the third gate.

Meh. The City hasn’t made a move on either road in decades now. There’s clearly still a contingent of Moses disciples in Anaheim who would freak at showing the demise of a road that has just been on paper for so long.

 

[el_super]

If you were Disney, why wouldn't you try to give yourself more options and flexibility now that everyone in power has been reminded *exactly* how important you are to the town's bottom line after more than a year of closure?

Simple: ask for too much and you will be told no. The problems with the eastern gateway were being raised by the local business owners and their concerns were enough for Disney to back down and withdraw the plans. By combining it into this program, you can now add in neighbor opposition to those voices.

DisneylandForward is clearly being setup as a multi year effort. It won't be easy and certainly not a slam dunk. Waiting two years for that to get settled to then start building the parking structure is just unnecessary.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Simple: ask for too much and you will be told no. The problems with the eastern gateway were being raised by the local business owners and their concerns were enough for Disney to back down and withdraw the plans. By combining it into this program, you can now add in neighbor opposition to those voices.

DisneylandForward is clearly being setup as a multi year effort. It won't be easy and certainly not a slam dunk. Waiting two years for that to get settled to then start building the parking structure is just unnecessary.

Those businesses have now been hurt by Disneyland Resort being closed, likely making them more amenable. They’re also not asking for too much, which is why they’re not looking to change the boundaries of the Disneyland Resort Specific Plan and emphasizing that they are not asking for any monetary commitment from the City.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I don’t think they need or want the eastern garage right away but since they know it’ll be a fight, then why not try and avoid it and future fights now while the opportunity exists?


Meh. The City hasn’t made a move on either road in decades now. There’s clearly still a contingent of Moses disciples in Anaheim who would freak at showing the demise of a road that has just been on paper for so long.

Anaheim Resort Mobility Plan – Key Recommendations document

OK, before I share the link, let me set this up. Someone looking for dirt did a Freedom of Information Act on the Mayor's Files. This person also discovered I received a few free tickets to use the Honda Center and Angel Stadium city suite. Tried to make a big deal of it, but it fell flat. I...

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[Nirya]

Sure... But the eastern gateway is a plan that the city can take action on today. What they are asking for is something that will take years of lawyering to change, which again signals that they have bigger priorities than the parking structure.

The one thing I am surprised Darkbeer hasn't mentioned yet is how, their public plans for developing the western flank, will end up hurting their position in keeping the land for the third gate whole. By shifting priorities to the west now, they may end up permanently surrendering the land for the third gate.

I think the problem is you are ignoring what people like Darkbeer is saying. The announcement doesn't actually state that Disney has plans for developing the western flank, merely that they would like the ability to do with that land as they please. The release of concept art is, as we've mentioned, a shiny toy in the grand scheme of things.

Essentially, Disney realizes this is their best opportunity to grab long-term power in the city, between the pandemic recovery efforts and an amenable city council. This is a pure political play, not an actual announcement of what their plans are for the resort. The reason it works is that the general public is looking at this announcement and saying "WHOA LOOK DISNEY WANTS TO EXPAND THE PARKS" instead of actually recognizing what is being proposed. And after the last few decades of pushback, I can absolutely understand why Disney is trying for as much as they are right now; you can't get what you don't ask for.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Anaheim Resort Mobility Plan – Key Recommendations document

OK, before I share the link, let me set this up. Someone looking for dirt did a Freedom of Information Act on the Mayor's Files. This person also discovered I received a few free tickets to use the Honda Center and Angel Stadium city suite. Tried to make a big deal of it, but it fell flat. I...

forums.wdwmagic.com

I’m aware. Moses disciples.

 

[Darkbeer1]

One point about the timing, the original Toy Story Land (aka Strawberry Field) is zoned for Agricultural, with a temporary use of parking. It expires in a couple of years. So it matches up with the timing.

The city and Disney might have had a few casual what-if conversations where some horse trading MIGHT happen. the city currently has a 6 to 1 friendly planning commission and city council, as compared to the 4 to 3 unfriendly commission and council when the Eastern Gateway was proposed.

A lot of possibilities, but we won't know the details until later.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Simple: ask for too much and you will be told no. The problems with the eastern gateway were being raised by the local business owners and their concerns were enough for Disney to back down and withdraw the plans. By combining it into this program, you can now add in neighbor opposition to those voices.

DisneylandForward is clearly being setup as a multi year effort. It won't be easy and certainly not a slam dunk. Waiting two years for that to get settled to then start building the parking structure is just unnecessary.

Nothing makes people realize how much value you bring faster than having that value abruptly taken away from them.

Those local business owners got a birds eye view of exactly what happens when the main reason people come to Anaheim and a big area employer suddenly ceases doing business. It tends to bring a lot of clarity to those same local business owners, hence why they'd be more understanding now (or at least more willing to play ball) vs. a few years ago.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The release of concept art is, as we've mentioned, a shiny toy in the grand scheme of things.

A shiny toy whose viability I question. We’re now at the point where the price tag for lands can surpass $1 billion and even a single roller coaster can exceed $500 million. The return on each dollar spent has become increasingly worse over the past 15 years and nothing has been done to curtail those cost increases. Those overpasses are at least $50 million being added onto either expansion project before Disney inflation get to them.

One point about the timing, the original Toy Story Land (aka Strawberry Field) is zoned for Agricultural, with a temporary use of parking. It expires in a couple of years. So it matches up with the timing.

The city and Disney might have had a few casual what-if conversations where some horse trading MIGHT happen. the city currently has a 6 to 1 friendly planning commission and city council, as compared to the 4 to 3 unfriendly commission and council when the Eastern Gateway was proposed.

A lot of possibilities, but we won't know the details until later.

Forcibly evicting people from their homes in the wake of an economically destructive pandemic should play real well.

 

[Nirya]

Yeah, I guess here's the flip side of this play: if Disney and the city council overplay their hand, it seems like a good way to make sure the council flips back to a more-unfriendly setup. Especially if the city council completely rolls over for Disney and does things like catering to them over the actual voting constituents in the area, that's a really easy thing to campaign against. That's especially the case as Orange County, in general, continues to trend more and more blue.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Yeah, I guess here's the flip side of this play: if Disney and the city council overplay their hand, it seems like a good way to make sure the council flips back to a more-unfriendly setup. Especially if the city council completely rolls over for Disney and does things like catering to them over the actual voting constituents in the area, that's a really easy thing to campaign against. That's especially the case as Orange County, in general, continues to trend more and more blue.

Yes, the city HAS to get something.

The rights to Gene Autry Way.

A financial guarantee, such as "X" amount of construction in a certain time frame, a guarantee of "X" amount of rooms, say of AAA 4 Diamond quality.

A partnership to connect ARTIC with the Resort Area for the 2028 Olympics. (Some funding could come from the Olympic Committee).

Or other things.

But it clearly cannot be a one sided deal, and both sides know that.

 

[Nirya]

Yes, the city HAS to get something.

The rights to Gene Autry Way.

A financial guarantee, such as "X" amount of construction in a certain time frame, a guarantee of "X" amount of rooms, say of AAA 4 Diamond quality.

A partnership to connect ARTIC with the Resort Area for the 2028 Olympics. (Some funding could come from the Olympic Committee).

Or other things.

But it clearly cannot be a one sided deal, and both sides know that.

I'm of the opinion that Gene Autry Way should be abandoned by the city. Kicking people out of those apartments in order to complete a road that doesn't feel like it will be used all that much looks like such a political loser that I can't imagine anyone is serious about it anymore.

Now, getting Disney to pitch in on some general Resort Area improvements seems like a solid way to go. If the city gets Disney to agree to pour a ton of money into a connector route for ARTIC to the Resort Area and the Eastern Gateway, that's something that those politicians can sell as a win (even though I'm of the opinion that focusing on ARTIC is not going to help long-term).

 

[Darkbeer1]

We are asking about losing one complex of 86 units. The city would buy out the owner with an offer that requires them to offer relocation services and moving expenses. It happens al the time, and usually without issue.

With the Angel Stadium project bringing thousands of new units, many at an affordable rate, it can be sold s a way to provide better access to those new units.

Gene Autry Way is an important route to the area.

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