News Disneyland Magic Key Program

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
The Flex pass let you in same day, so I hope they do the same for the Keys. Granted, this was a time when reservations were only for Flex passholders so I'd understand if they didn't do this anymore.

My backup plan is to go to Knotts afterwards since they don't require reservations anymore. In any event, the camera bag will be packed so If I end up being able to go into the parks or Knotts, then I'll have my camera with me in either event.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
You do realize that generally, that's a BAD thing right?

Saying Disneyland needs discounted admission reinforces the idea that the audience will always prioritize cheap access over experience. This idea that Disneyland isn't really selling a theme park experience (with rides, and food and merchandise), but really just selling access to come in and sit on a bench and be there. That completely tilts the operational thinking of the park and how financial returns are planned.

Disney doesn't have to spend to improve the guest experience, just continue to lower the price enough to attract people. Long lines at the toll booths, security, no parking lot trams, understaffed facilities and convoluted entrance rules and requirements are all justified by having an AP program. People paying a discount to get in, will always overlook these little failures.

There are all sorts of other negative long term effects too: entitled passholders putting downward pressure on labor retention, long term attraction and expansion spending not being justified by smaller returns, more park area and green space being eaten away for guest accommodation.

You can take almost any complaint made against the park in the last ten years and tie it back to the AP program.




I still disagree that this is the same system. It looks very similar to the old system, to be sure, but the addition of the reservations significantly alters what is being offered. We knew the old APs were dead as soon as they committed to moving forward with reservations only. Bringing back something similar is really meant to help convince the locals to buy into the same system, but most of the power now is with Disney.

It's actually going to be quite some time before we know for sure to what degree access is still available to the former AP crowd and whether the reservations will severely limit access to the park, or be enough of a deterrent to keep people from buying the new memberships. Personally I don't see why anyone would buy into this system without fully knowing or understanding how the reservations will work not just in principal but in practice.




Observational data would indicate that attendance has actually gone up in the last two weeks. I can tell you during my normal commute, the lines for Mickey and Friends and Pixar Pals have both increased significantly and have been back to being out in the street blocking traffic.

Thrill data seems to indicate that I'm not entirely crazy, with the average wait times also increasing over June numbers:

View attachment 577733

Most likely this corresponds to the release of the So Cal ticket discounts and general "end of summer/before back to school" trips that would see a spike in attendance pre-Labor Day. This is actually a fairly normal attendance pattern.

Where you might be right, is in thinking what will happen after August. Disney can gauge expected park attendance from their hotel bookings and now park reservations and ticket sales. If their bookings are soft, they might be worried that off-season attendance is going to crater HARD. This makes a lot of sense considering the unavailability of international travel, a domestic travel industry that is in flux, and the concerns over the delta variant and public health lockdowns coming back.

I wouldn't be surprised at all, if Disney actually ended up having competing AP replacements to choose from, and ended up choosing one based solely on future booking numbers looking so bad. Seems off that they would take eight months to come up with something that is "essentially the same as before but just with reservations" right?

A couple of points.

A. It's not just the fact that Disneyland needs discount admission and more to the reality Disneyland has just gotten too expensive to go! The day tickets have gotten insane. Most people will not buy those tickets forever. What I always point out and what gets ignored is that Disneyland resort tickets are the most expensive tickets on the planet, period. The irony is they have priced themselves that high because they were clearly trying to get people to buy APs and PHs. A family of four can't afford to just spend $600 just to go to Disneyland for a day. What's crazier is it's nearly twice as much to go to DCA than it is to go to DisneySea lol. DCA has improved but c'mon.. They know they can't rely on day passes to sustain the park. That would be insane and my guess is have more PHs available than 1 day tickets which goes to the next point.

B. The park hopper tickets aren't selling well! Again, what's kind of odd in these discussions is that no one is talking about the fact Park hopper tickets have basically flatlined since mid-July. Disney clearly knew this and why they offered PH discounts to locals for a very good reason. Today, you can still buy a PH to enter DL or DCA right now or the rest of the month. Not one single day is unavailable for literally the next three months. They were always behind the 1 day ticket sales but at the beginning you couldn't buy one a few weeks out OR at least DL was sold out first. Now like the 1 day passes there is just no issue getting them at all. And it really hits a huge point that again no one seems to be talking about which is...

C. Park hoppers=vacationers!

Remember alllll the talk about how Disneyland will now have those vacationers gleefully tripping over themselves to come back to Disneyland? And even more so now that they don't have to worry about those pesky APers clogging up the walkways? Well clearly a lot of them are still not bothering to show up. And that's ALSO obvious when you simply do a hotel availability search. I went and looked at all three Disney hotels availability for tomorrow and guess what and they are ALL open (but DLH has most of their rooms sold out). And it's August. Now I told myself we are still in the middle of a pandemic. And yes as yourself point out, MANY people from other countries still can't travel. Even if they can travel to America relatively easy but most of them, especially in Asia and Europe would still have to be quarantined when they go back anywhere from 7-14 days. Most still require taking a test 3 days before going back home. So OK, you can argue a lot of overseas fans just can't come over right now and why there is still a huge dent in tourism.

But then out of curiosity I went and checked the WDW hotel availability and it's night and day. Every major hotel on property is sold out for the weekend and basically the rest of the month. You will find maybe a standard room available here and there but it looks like 90% of those rooms are gone if you want to try and stay on property. Now I didn't check ALL the hotels there lol, just the most expensive ones and that's a good indicator. With DLR though, it seems like everywhere is wide open. Not just the 3 Disney hotels but all the hotels on Harbor, Hilton, Sheraton, NOTHING is sold out. You can pick your price, location, brand, it doesn't matter not a single hotel is sold out anywhere in Anaheim. Dude, their bookings are soft right now! I'm not talking about off season, it's still the middle of summer and no one can fill up any of their hotels for a park that has been closed for literally over an entire year.

Since June 15th, California has been just as open as Florida has, right? Both Disney resorts are now as equally open in terms of access and even most likely capacity. Yet one place has all the tourists, the other has the locals (and Florida is tuning into a cesspool again). It just goes to the point over and over again DLR is at the end of the day a local's park. I don't know why some people can't accept this basic reality (and I'm not saying you don't). And BECAUSE of that is another reason why APs will just be very important to the resort.

D. Last but not least, the #1 reason why there will ALWAYS be discounted admission at DLR. The one that you never brought up and yet so few people ever mention it in these arguments, Disney California Adventure. Yes or no, are you willing to pay the same price for it as you are Disneyland? Is anyone on this board is? Until that answer is 'yes' and it's over 50% of respondents then yeah APs will never EVER go away. You talk about how almost insulting it is just mentioning discount admissions into Disneyland, but then you completely ignore the park right next door and have been literally depending on discounted admissions for 20 years now lol. Again, this is the problem. Fans seem to somehow forget that both DL and DCA are one entity. They are both treated equally and its just as important to get DCA as busy as DL. Now for the record, I think it's been doing pretty well since it reopened. Part of that has to do with AC but it's been selling out in day passes as well, although certainly not every day but mostly. So it's not doing that bad. But same time even now it's clear which park has problem sustaining people all day. And once everyone gets their fill of AC, it's going to fall again.

APs is what kept DCA afloat for the last two decades. Yes if you have more vacationers coming all year then maybe it will do better overall. But as point C pointed out, that's just not the reality and certainly not all year. Disney refuses to lower the price to the park and in fairness EVERY park worldwide are equal in price to their sister parks so what else do you do? They did plenty of seasonal local discounts early on to get more people in that park. But it looks like they stop doing that long ago since they both get discounted equally these days like the 3 day discounts this summer.

DCA will ALWAYS be the reason why APs will stay. And they will stay UNTIL locals are wiling to pay the same price to get into that place as DL. I have been saying this for a long long time now and I will probably keep saying it lol.

TLDR: APs are back for three key reasons! 1. Daily admission price are too high. 2. DLR is still mostly a locals park, especially this summer and 3. DCA is still struggling to be a self sustaining park, ironically because of 1 and 2. Until at least one those three factors change in some major way APs will stick around.

And for the record, even though I knew APs would be back I DIDN'T think they would practically be like the old system. I thought there would be major changes of SOME kind. Again, saying reservations are it is kind of disingenuous when you ALSO have reservations for all the other passes as well. So sure its a big change but that's just a big change for DLR and every Disney park worldwide in general. That's just the new normal. Now if the APs were the ONLY thing that are on a reservation system, OK, the argument would be stronger, agreed? And of course its a GOOD thing. We'll have to see how it shakes out but with 1 day and PH tickets not selling a ton these days, it may be fine. At least at the beginning. I'm still not convinced a ton of people will even get them right away because of the fears everyone here has about the reservation system. I'm interested in getting them but I'm going to wait a few months.

And I also thought maybe we wouldn't see them until next Spring the earliest. But again just look at the facts. It's not a surprise why they are coming back so soon.

Disneyland NEEDS Aps! And my guess is in a month, more than ever!
 
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CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
A couple of points.

A. It's not just the fact that Disneyland needs discount admission and more to the reality Disneyland has just gotten too expensive to go! The day tickets have gotten insane. Most people will not buy those tickets forever. What I always point out and what gets ignored is that Disneyland resort tickets are the most expensive tickets on the planet, period. The irony is they have priced themselves that high because they were clearly trying to get people to buy APs and PHs. A family of four can't afford to just spend $600 just to go to Disneyland for a day. What's crazier is it's nearly twice as much to go to DCA than it is to go to DisneySea lol. DCA has improved but c'mon.. They know they can't rely on day passes to sustain the park. That would be insane and my guess is have more PHs available than 1 day tickets which goes to the next point.

B. The park hopper tickets aren't selling well! Again, what's kind of odd in these discussions is that no one is talking about the fact Park hopper tickets have basically flatlined since mid-July. Disney clearly knew this and why they offered PH discounts to locals for a very good reason. Today, you can still buy a PH to enter DL or DCA right now or the rest of the month. Not one single day is unavailable for literally the next three months. They were always been behind the 1 day tickets but at the beginning you couldn't buy one a few weeks out OR at least DL was sold out first. Now like the 1 day passes there is just no issue getting them at all. And it really hits a huge point that again no one seems to be talking about which is...

C. Park hoppers=vacationers!

Remember alllll the talk about how Disneyland will now have those vacationers gleefully tripping over themselves to come back to Disneyland? And even more so now that they don't have to worry about those pesky APers clogging up the walkways? Well clearly a lot of them are still not bothering to show up. And that's ALSO obvious when you simply do a hotel availability search. I went and looked at all three Disney hotels availability for tomorrow and guess what and they are ALL open (but DLH has most of their rooms sold out). And it's August. Now I told myself we are still in the middle of a pandemic. And yes MANY people from other countries still can't travel. Even if they can travel to America relatively easy but most of them, especially in Asia and Europe would still have to be quarantined when they go back anywhere from 7-14 days. Most still require taking a test 3 days before going back home. So OK, you can argue a lot of overseas fans just can't come over right now and why there is still a huge dent in tourism.

But then out of curiosity I went and checked the WDW hotel availability and it's night and day. Every major hotel on property is sold out for the weekend and basically the rest of the month. You will find maybe a standard room available here and there but it looks like 90% of those rooms are gone if you want to try and stay on property. Now I didn't check ALL the hotels there lol, just the most expensive ones and that's a good indicator. With DLR though, it seems like everywhere is wide open. Not just the 3 Disney hotels but all the hotels on Harbor, Hilton, Sheraton, NOTHING is sold out. You can pick your price, location, brand, it doesn't matter not a single hotel is sold out anywhere in Anaheim. Dude, their bookings are soft right now! I'm not talking about off season, it's still the middle of summer and no one can fill up any of their hotels for a park that has been closed for literally over an entire year.

Since June 15th, California has been just as open as Florida has, right? Both Disney resorts are now as equally open in terms of access and even most likely capacity. Yet one place has all the tourists, the other has the locals. It just goes to the point over and over again DLR is at the end of the day a local's park. I don't know why some people accept this basic reality (and I'm not saying you don't). And BECAUSE of that is another reason why APs will just be very important to the resort.

D. Last but not least, the #1 reason why there will ALWAYS be discounted admission at DLR. The one that you never brought up and yet so few people ever mention it in these arguments, Disney California Adventure. Yes or no, are you willing to pay the same price for it as you are Disneyland? Is anyone on this board is? Until that answer is 'yes' and it's over 50% of respondents then yeah APs will never EVER go away. You talk about how almost insulting it is just mentioning discount admissions into Disneyland, but then you completely ignore the park right next door and have been literally depending on discounted admissions for 20 years now lol. Again, this is the problem. Fans seem to somehow forget that both DL and DCA are one entity. They are both treated equally and its just as important to get DCA as busy as DL. Now for the record, I think it's been doing pretty well. Part of that has to do with AC but it's been selling out in day passes as well, although certainly not every day but mostly. So it's not doing that bad. But same time even now it's clear which park has problem sustaining people all day. And once everyone gets their fill of AC, it's going to fall again.

APs is what kept DCA afloat for the last two decades. Yes if you have more vacationers coming all year then maybe it will do better overall. But as point C pointed out, that's just not the reality and certainly not all year. Disney refuses to lower the price to the park and in fairness EVERY park worldwide are equal in price to their sister parks so what else do you do? They did plenty of seasonal local discounts early on to get more people in that park but it looks like they stop doing that long ago since they both get discounted equally these days like the 3 day discounts this summer.

DCA will ALWAYS be the reason why APs will stay. And they will stay UNTIL locals are wiling to pay the same price to get into that place as DL. I have been saying this for a long long time now and I will probably keep saying it lol.

TLDR: APs are back for three key reasons! 1. Daily admission price are too high. 2. DLR is still mostly a locals park, especially this summer and 3. DCA is still struggling to be a self sustaining park, ironically because of 1 and 2. Until those three factors change in some major way APs will stick around.

And for the record, even though I knew APs would be back I DIDN'T think they would practically be like the old system. I thought there would be major changes of SOME kind. Again, saying reservations are it is kind of disingenuous when you ALSO have reservations for all the other passes as well. So sure its a big change but that's just a big change for DLR in general. That's just the new normal. And of course its a GOOD thing. And I also thought maybe we wouldn't see them until next Spring the earliest. But again just look at the facts. It's not a surprise why they are coming back so soon.

Disneyland NEEDS Aps! And my guess is in a month, more than ever!
Or they can just price DCA what it's actually worth instead of pretending its worth the same price as Disneyland.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
Or they can just price DCA what it's actually worth instead of pretending its worth the same price as Disneyland.

Yes they could and yet 20 years later....

And there is probably a very good reason for that and that is because they want to people to see all the parks as equals, even though they aren't. This is something I remember from decades ago, but when then MGM Studios was going to open at WDW, they originally were going to price it $10 lower than MK and Epcot for the obvious reason, it was clearly a much smaller park. But then they came to the conclusion that if they priced the park lower, guests might see that lower price not just because there is less to do but also because the quality isn't as good as the others. And in some ways might make people less interested in visiting.

Again, this is just what I remembered reading somewhere eons ago and you can certainly argue how much sense that argument makes. But it is also true MGM studios was really the first 'half day' park Disney built and they still decided to keep the same price as its much bigger siblings. And they been doing that for all their other parks since.

So clearly that is no-go for any of the parks. Disney is MORE than willing to discount the park, but not on a permanent basis either. It seems like they have just depended on PHs and APs to fill it. But DCA doesn't get any special discounts anymore either. Whatever discount it gets goes the same for DL and vice versa. I think it also proves DCA has improved on its own, just not at the level where they want it compared to DL mostly. That can still be another decade or two away.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
And there is probably a very good reason for that and that is because they want to people to see all the parks as equals, even though they aren't. This is something I remember from decades ago, but when then MGM Studios was going to open at WDW, they originally were going to price it $10 lower than MK and Epcot for the obvious reason, it was clearly a much smaller park. But then they came to the conclusion that if they priced the park lower, guests might see that lower price not just because there is less to do but also because the quality isn't as good as the others. And in some ways might make people less interested in visiting.
In a way DHS and DAK are lower priced than Epcot and MK though as a 3/4/5/6 day ticket is cheaper than a one or two day ticket.
I am surprised there hasn’t been multi day tickets which only allow one visit to DL or MK to control the crowds at the main park while encouraging visits to DCA or DAK/DHS. I think there has been local residents tickets of one visit to each park, but not for vacationers.
 
I have only been to Disneyland once a few years ago. We live closer to WDW and are passholders there. Right now, WDW isn't selling any "new" passholder opportunities. You can only "renew" them. I'm wondering if the man I detest, Bobby Boy C., will bring this magic key program over to WDW. I may be in the minority here, but I truly see the magic slowly disappearing big time from all things Disney. How very very sad.
 

dovetail65

Well-Known Member
I have only been to Disneyland once a few years ago. We live closer to WDW and are passholders there. Right now, WDW isn't selling any "new" passholder opportunities. You can only "renew" them. I'm wondering if the man I detest, Bobby Boy C., will bring this magic key program over to WDW. I may be in the minority here, but I truly see the magic slowly disappearing big time from all things Disney. How very very sad.
I am not too worried about it and even if they called it MagicKey, unlimited days for 1399.00 and included parking for WDW is still a steal. WDW had events to where they wanted us to go to EPCOT 4 days to get a little trinket within 30 to 90 days, they also have an after 4PM for EPCOT pass, so Disney wants us there just having dinner. In CA it is completely different, Disney is trying to limit the guests that go for one ride and dinner to either not to go at all or pay more to do that.

I just do not see this Magic Key as bad as some are making it out to be. Locals keep comparing to what they had and that they are getting less for more money(that may be true) instead of comparing to what is actually out there in 2021 as entertainment. Disneyland AP's were probably under priced the last 15 years, WDW's were too. I used to laugh to myself and think who in their right mind buys a 10 day at WDW when they can get an AP, the pricing at one point was so close that even if a person never wanted to go back it was still worth an AP if they were just going to buy some things for the 10 and 20% discounts. . Now the AP's are more in line with daily pricing to where you best be going back to buy an AP.

If we get less for more money it may still be a better deal than anything else out there a person might like to do, is it a bad deal? And some can argue with the new super expensive attractions they get more. Avatar fans, Marvel fans and a Star war fans for example can argue they are getting far more. For me it's the reservations and lack of FP that are more concerning than the price increases for the AP alone.. A paid FP can potentially blow the costs out of this world compared to these new AP price changes/increases. How is 1399.00 for 365 days and included parking a bad deal in a place where parking spots can cost double that in a year or an apartment cost 3500.00 a month or a 1000 sq foot condo in Studio city cost 650K or a 1200 sq foot home cost upwards of a million dollars? It's relative for me. I'll pay my 1399.00 for a WDW AP if it is 365 days including parking. I have had an WDW AP since Dec 2015. Since then the pricing has skyrocketed, still for me, looking at my current bills for utilities compared to daily Disney pricing and how many times my wife wants to go to the Parks 1399.99 seems a fair price.

When someone says Guests will complain about the new AP pricing then turn around and continue to purchase the new AP's and this makes those people Disney brain washed , that is not what's going on. What is really going on is as expensive as the new AP's are and even though we get less than we used to when a person is paying 425 a month for electric, 225.00 for water, 625 bucks for a cell phone bill or 240 bucks for cable even 1000.00 to 3000.00 a year for parking etc, the 1399.00 for 365 days and included parking is still an acceptable(if not good or great) deal, old price comparisons or getting less for more money aside.

Disneyland does not want to be a Six Flags type day park and I believe this new scheme is Disney's attempt to keep them on that course. I sure wish my AP's were still 780.00 though, I have 6 kids.
 
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fctiger

Well-Known Member
In a way DHS and DAK are lower priced than Epcot and MK though as a 3/4/5/6 day ticket is cheaper than a one or two day ticket.
I am surprised there hasn’t been multi day tickets which only allow one visit to DL or MK to control the crowds at the main park while encouraging visits to DCA or DAK/DHS. I think there has been local residents tickets of one visit to each park, but not for vacationers.

Yes very true! All the parks are discounted in a way, just not directly. PH are obviously a way to see the parks without paying full price and in WDW case, you usually want to go to all the parks, even if you go more to some than others, so PH makes 100% sense there. And they are a very good deal. We're going to WDW (fingers crossed) in a few weeks and I think it's a great deal to go to 4 parks for 5 days for around $555. But then you can go 10 days for $600. That's four parks.

As for MK or DL only passes, I think part of it is a fear some of the other parks will get less attention or they just like the idea of spreading the crowds around. That's why APs and PHs are good, if things get too busy at DL they can send people to DCA for awhile.

But Tokyo Disney Resort is the only resort where you can buy TDL or TDS only APs. And even their PH tickets are designed differently from the other parks and you can only park hop on the 3rd and 4th days. The first two days you can only go to one park. But I guess when its something like TDS as a choice it's not hard to get people to focus only on that park. TDS is the only second gate I like going as much as the MK parks.
 

SplashGhost

Well-Known Member
I am surprised anyone would buy anything but park hoppers if they go to any of the parks outside Disneyland or Magic Kingdom. Spending a full 10 hour plus day at DCA would get really boring for me personally. DCA's purpose for me is to have a few fun rides to do that aren't at Disneyland, it in no way feels like a complete park on its own. Of course, families with kids might find more to do there, but for me, the park offers very little outside the E-Tickets.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
I am surprised anyone would buy anything but park hoppers if they go to any of the parks outside Disneyland or Magic Kingdom. Spending a full 10 hour plus day at DCA would get really boring for me personally. DCA's purpose for me is to have a few fun rides to do that aren't at Disneyland, it in no way feels like a complete park on its own. Of course, families with kids might find more to do there, but for me, the park offers very little outside the E-Tickets.
DCA is a half day park. I would could spend 2 days or more at Disneyland and never be bored or do everything that is possible to do at Disneyland. DCA I could do a few rides and then get real bored.
 

Sailor310

Well-Known Member
I tour-guided my sister at DCA once some time ago. I bought the WOC dinner package. I worked fast passes and single-rider lines and she was done in 4 hours. I'm like, "but I paid extra so you could see WOC. We could hang out in the GCH lobby if you want a break." Nope. She was done.
On the other hand. One hot day my buddy and I did GRR single-rider five times in a row.
 

SplashGhost

Well-Known Member
DCA is a half day park. I would could spend 2 days or more at Disneyland and never be bored or do everything that is possible to do at Disneyland. DCA I could do a few rides and then get real bored.

Not to mention how DCA is lacking in the atmosphere and charm that Disneyland has. The only really well themed areas are Buena Vista Street, Grizzly Peak, and Cars Land. Most of the other areas of the park feel like lesser Six Flags lands at best(and even that is being generous to DCA), but without the good coasters to compensate for the lack of theming.

At DCA, I pretty much just do Mission: Breakout, Incredicoaster (I know I love to complain about the ridiculously bad theming, but at least the coaster itself is still fun even if the onboard dialogue is awful and almost ruins the ride), and Radiator Springs Racers. I will do Soarin' when it is Over California, and occasionally Grizzly River Run. Out of the flats, I kind of like Golden Zephyr, but most of the rides are just too boring at DCA IMO, and I almost never do anything outside what I just listed as almost none of the other stuff appeals to me.

Disneyland on the other hand has more E-Tickets that are drastically better in terms of quality, but the C and D tickets are actually good and worth doing. Disneyland arguably has the most balanced and robust attraction lineup of quality attractions of any theme park out there.

I tour-guided my sister at DCA once some time ago. I bought the WOC dinner package. I worked fast passes and single-rider lines and she was done in 4 hours. I'm like, "but I paid extra so you could see WOC. We could hang out in the GCH lobby if you want a break." Nope. She was done.
On the other hand. One hot day my buddy and I did GRR single-rider five times in a row.

Sometimes, I love to marathon rides, and that is about the only way that I would spend more than about four hours at DCA in a day. They don't have many rides that are marathon worthy though IMO. I could marathon any of the mountains at Disneyland if the lines were short enough.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
Not to mention how DCA is lacking in the atmosphere and charm that Disneyland has. The only really well themed areas are Buena Vista Street, Grizzly Peak, and Cars Land. Most of the other areas of the park feel like lesser Six Flags lands at best(and even that is being generous to DCA), but without the good coasters to compensate for the lack of theming.

At DCA, I pretty much just do Mission: Breakout, Incredicoaster (I know I love to complain about the ridiculously bad theming, but at least the coaster itself is still fun even if the onboard dialogue is awful and almost ruins the ride), and Radiator Springs Racers. I will do Soarin' when it is Over California, and occasionally Grizzly River Run. Out of the flats, I kind of like Golden Zephyr, but most of the rides are just too boring at DCA IMO, and I almost never do anything outside what I just listed as almost none of the other stuff appeals to me.

Disneyland on the other hand has more E-Tickets that are drastically better in terms of quality, but the C and D tickets are actually good and worth doing. Disneyland arguably has the most balanced and robust attraction lineup of quality attractions of any theme park out there.
Couldn't have said it any better myself. First time I walked around DCA all I COULD think about is how it feels like a generic theme park. Felt nothing like Disneyland. It felt hollow. No charm. No personality. It just existed. With no soul.
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
I am surprised anyone would buy anything but park hoppers if they go to any of the parks outside Disneyland or Magic Kingdom. Spending a full 10 hour plus day at DCA would get really boring for me personally. DCA's purpose for me is to have a few fun rides to do that aren't at Disneyland, it in no way feels like a complete park on its own. Of course, families with kids might find more to do there, but for me, the park offers very little outside the E-Tickets.
And this, right here, is exactly why APs will never go away at DLR! That's what I said in my post and exactly why they will continue to stay until enough people see the park as it's own worth and not just to kill a few hours between visiting DL.

Maybe if it wasn't built in 2001 (or at least built better) the situation would be very different today.
 

James Clifton

Active Member
Get ready to be taken....as in.... $$$$$$$$!No matter how much Disney charges & how loud people scream & threaten NO WAY!!I'm done with DISNEY....upper management will laugh & say.....give it time ....we will get what we want....as always!! Remember when they started charging for PARKING....even if you were staying in the resorts!Heard members saying....I'm done ! Then members rationalized..."it isn't soooo bad'! I used to go every yr.(35yrs.) & stay at Deluxe!Haven't been in 3 yrs....first yr.I really missed it......then saw what was happening & realized the WDW I loved is becoming a thing of the past! Interested to see how this all works out....
 

Tamandua

Well-Known Member
Using our California 3 day tickets, wondering if we'd want Magic Key passes if we stay in the area. Yesterday's visit to Disneyland reminded me of how far the current experience is from what it was in March 2020. Everyone was amazed at how low the prices are with these passes (compared to expectations), but I'm of the opinion that you're getting much, much less for it. I really felt the lack of fastpass. We used to get a fastpass and then go enjoy a show, or eat, or shop, or do something outside of wait in line, but now you feel like you have to wait in lines all the time if you want to make the most of your trip.

I think the fact that they're trying to pressure people into buying these passes within 66 days to get a special trinket says a lot. Gotta get people locked in before they think too hard about it.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
Everyone was amazed at how low the prices are with these passes (compared to expectations), but I'm of the opinion that you're getting much, much less for it.
It's interesting that we can talk about these amazing "low" prices, that are really just about the same prices as before with - as you said - fewer actual benefits attached.

But, offering less for more is definitely not new. They'd slowly been raising prices and hacking away at benefits for years even before the pandemic. Probably the most accurate thing you can say about the "rebrand" is that it's just a moderate acceleration, where the rumors had indicated there might be a more drastic one.
 

shambolicdefending

Well-Known Member
Remember alllll the talk about how Disneyland will now have those vacationers gleefully tripping over themselves to come back to Disneyland? And even more so now that they don't have to worry about those pesky APers clogging up the walkways? Well clearly a lot of them are still not bothering to show up.
The process of devaluing their own park as a tourist attraction has been going on for a decade or so, even though the extent of the damage probably wasn't totally clear until Star Wars opened.

I have to assume that Disney knows any attempt to rebuild that value will take a long time - years, probably. And it especially won't progress very far as long as there are still lingering COVID restrictions and fears in place.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
Get ready to be taken....as in.... $$$$$$$$!No matter how much Disney charges & how loud people scream & threaten NO WAY!!I'm done with DISNEY....upper management will laugh & say.....give it time ....we will get what we want....as always!! Remember when they started charging for PARKING....even if you were staying in the resorts!Heard members saying....I'm done ! Then members rationalized..."it isn't soooo bad'! I used to go every yr.(35yrs.) & stay at Deluxe!Haven't been in 3 yrs....first yr.I really missed it......then saw what was happening & realized the WDW I loved is becoming a thing of the past! Interested to see how this all works out....
Are you really being taken if you willingly give up your money?
 

fctiger

Well-Known Member
The process of devaluing their own park as a tourist attraction has been going on for a decade or so, even though the extent of the damage probably wasn't totally clear until Star Wars opened.

I have to assume that Disney knows any attempt to rebuild that value will take a long time - years, probably. And it especially won't progress very far as long as there are still lingering COVID restrictions and fears in place.

Well DLR was never a true tourist resort like the way WDW is. Sure, it clearly gets tourists (hence all the hotels) but just not at the level, length of stay and most importantly $$$ like it does at WDW. We know that was the whole point of DCA in 2001 but sadly they thought a cheap bare bones park and a new, but small shopping area was going to turn that image around and it really didn't. Twenty years later it's probably still just a place the average non-Californian spend 3-4 nights in versus the 6+ nights people spend at WDW and at a much higher cost to boot.

I do always wonder what would've happened if they went with their original ambitious plan of Westcot before EuroDisney sunk all those plans later?

As for Star Wars, again, if they didn't build two of them on each coast, at least not the same summer, that might've made a big difference as well. At least the first year.
 
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