Disney World Planning is far too complicated (CNBC article)

[Touchdown]

I joined here after my trip.

And officially joined us merry band of Disney Nerds that make up <20% of the park going populous (and I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re <10%)

 

[Riviera Rita]

It's not wrong, they took it way too far.

Personally I still think a good balance would be no park reservations, 1 pre-booked attraction per day and make the rest go back to paper fast passes. It forces you to actually be there, and to go to a physical location to obtain that fastpass. Set it up so its in block sections where fastpasses for opening to noon are offered between opening and 11am, then noon to 4 or 5pm then 5pm to close.

I say this as someone who spends a great deal of my time online, I don't want to have to spend my vacation being online even more, having to screw around on my phone getting up at specific times or refreshing pages in the hope that my day wont be wasted.

Trying to explain Genie+, lightning lanes and park passes to first timers is an awful experience and you can see the look of panic and confusion in their face. It's just a complete mess.

I'm all for making use of technology to improve the experience - but no part of any of what they've implemented does that.

Big no to paper FP, do you remember the mad rush to get to the machines then have one person with a dozen cards to put in and out? Then by the time you get there you'll be lucky to get a FP reservation for 6pm and if you went for that you couldn't have another one until after that, you couldn't even cancel it if you change your mind? The FP+ was ideal, I rarely kept the itinerary that I set up 60 days out, I was always chopping and changing it virtually until I got on the plane. And you could get three FP+ that could be completed by 11am and the world was your oyster for the rest of the day. The FP+ was the best incarnation of the system, it didn't need changing and the park reservation system needs to go too as it is no longer needed, you can keep track of how many guests are coming through the gates and then close them when it gets to capacity and park hopping restrictions need to go too. They are so easy to do and yet, like mousekeepng, Disney wants to keep those things that were relevant during the early days of reopening after Covid, but, are now unnecessary because it benefits Disney way more than it has ever benefitted the guest.
Booking ADRs 60 days out instead of 180 day out I agree with, a lot can change in those 120 extra days and people may not bother to cancel an ADR if their trip is suddenly cancelled and only remember to do so the day before when it could cost them $10 a head, but, meaning others couldn't take that reservation instead.

 

[Riviera Rita]

And officially joined us merry band of Disney Nerds that make up <20% of the park going populous (and I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re <10%)

Been a Disney nerd since 1966.

 

[Touchdown]

Been a Disney nerd since 1966.

Fine Disney Park nerd

 

[esskay]

Big no to paper FP, do you remember the mad rush to get to the machines then have one person with a dozen cards to put in and out? Then by the time you get there you'll be lucky to get a FP reservation for 6pm and if you went for that you couldn't have another one until after that, you couldn't even cancel it if you change your mind? The FP+ was ideal, I rarely kept the itinerary that I set up 60 days out, I was always chopping and changing it virtually until I got on the plane. And you could get three FP+ that could be completed by 11am and the world was your oyster for the rest of the day. The FP+ was the best incarnation of the system, it didn't need changing and the park reservation system needs to go too as it is no longer needed, you can keep track of how many guests are coming through the gates and then close them when it gets to capacity and park hopping restrictions need to go too. They are so easy to do and yet, like mousekeepng, Disney wants to keep those things that were relevant during the early days of reopening after Covid, but, are now unnecessary because it benefits Disney way more than it has ever benefitted the guest.
Booking ADRs 60 days out instead of 180 day out I agree with, a lot can change in those 120 extra days and people may not bother to cancel an ADR if their trip is suddenly cancelled and only remember to do so the day before when it could cost them $10 a head, but, meaning others couldn't take that reservation instead.

I do remember the mad rush and you have a valid point, my thoughts on it were more that because it would be split into time blocks you wouldn't have people rushing all at once (maybe I'm being naive).

Something like this:

At park opening FastPasses are offered for times between now and noon.
At 11am passes are offered from noon to 4pm
At 3pm passes are offered from 4pm to close

At the same time you still allow 1 FastPass+ reservation to be made 60 days out, but only for those staying on-site to keep that incentive in place.

The thinking here is that by offering it as a hybrid system it doesn't massively benefit or screw over one particular group over another. FastPass+ was slightly too powerful as it meant on-site guests took up practically all availability well before offsite guests had a chance.

By moving some of it back to physical tickets you'll no doubt still have the initial rush but theoretically its going to be less of an issue as the FastPass+ part of it, and the spreading of time blocks would in turn spread out the capacity, and thus the time people arrive at the parks.

Also agree on ADR's. 60 days is plenty.

This all being said, FastPass+ alone was leaps and bounds better than Genie+ / LL so I'd be more than happy to go back to that! I just think it needs a few tweaks to prevent the overly harsh penalty on off-site guests, which a lot of first timers will be (especially in this climate).

 

[AndyS2992]

LOL, come on. You say it's not complex because you put together SPREADSHEETS that tell you exactly where you should visit when? I'm assuming you also research on when the add ons would be worth it and factor those into the calculations? Even visiting other theme parks, I don't need to have the insane planning. Planning is just "Will it be busy" and "Should I buy the fast lanes" which is a one time charge with no other planning needed (like, looking for reservations for each attraction, booking, coming back at specific times, working that around dining, making dining reservations, etc.).

Well, it’s not exactly a spreadsheet, more of a list but no, it’s not complicated at all.

 

[Ayla]

Explaining to someone they have to book a hotel and park ticket package and then select which day they want to go to which park is easy (if not a pain in the butt). Booking is easier than ever because you don't have a 30 or 60 day FP+ selection on top of your ADR window.

Explaining to someone that you have to wake up at 6:59AM to buy G+ and then select a LL, ILL, VQ and then every two hours OR after it's use you can use another LL. Then if you have park hoppers you can't go until 2pm, but then you can't book a LL until after.

Also you can modify if you like but that doesn't change the 2 hour rule.

Then once you explain that, they'll ask what the difference between a Lightning Lane and a Individual Lightning Lane is.

Once you use it, it's not too bad, but explaining that to someone who hasn't been to WDW since 2019 as they are preparing to spend 1000s of dollars? Yeah that'll turn people off.

To be honest, I stopped explaining it to people and tell anyone that asks me to go somewhere else.

 

[Bocabear]

It has become somewhat of a chore... We used to run up to WDW for an impromptu trip, run the parks and get on everything...then Fastpass Plus arrived and all of that became impossible...not with having to get park reservations, plus the new lightning lane and digital assistant, it has truly become too difficult...It is no longer fun...it becomes work. We spend more time on our phones arranging things and making sure we can have lunch or dinner... This is going to be a year we pass on attending our annual June Disney trip sadly...

 

[LSLS]

Well, it’s not exactly a spreadsheet, more of a list but no, it’s not complicated at all.

It is not for you, someone who has been multiple times, knows spreadsheets, and enjoys making them. Honestly I'm not sure how you can say it's not that complex, the process to go through a day at the park is something like this (and yes, I'm sure I'm missing stuff):

1. Make your reservation for the hotel and buy tickets for a specific date.
2. Make dining reservations if you know what places you want to eat.
3. Travel to Orlando
4. Wake up at midnight for Genie +
5. Wake up at 7AM to buy ILL
6. Make your first reservation.
7. Head to the park (make sure it's the correct park for the correct day, no switching)
8. Do some things
9. Go to your first genie reservation
10. Make another reservation
11. Shoot, run to your ILL, that time is now
12. Do some things
13. Go to your next genie reservation
14. Make another reservation
15. Do some things
16. Arrive at your dining reservation
17. Do you still have Genie plus availability? If so, make another.
18. Do some things
19. Go to Genie plus reservation
20. Do some things
21. Head to your hotel to relax

Now, do like Cedar Point:

1. Buy some tickets and reserve a hotel
2. Travel to Sandusky
3. Head to the park
4. Buy lightning lane (if you think you will need it)
5. Do stuff
6. Head to hotel.

 

[AndyS2992]

It is not for you, someone who has been multiple times, knows spreadsheets, and enjoys making them. Honestly I'm not sure how you can say it's not that complex, the process to go through a day at the park is something like this (and yes, I'm sure I'm missing stuff):

1. Make your reservation for the hotel and buy tickets for a specific date.
2. Make dining reservations if you know what places you want to eat.
3. Travel to Orlando
4. Wake up at midnight for Genie +
5. Wake up at 7AM to buy ILL
6. Make your first reservation.
7. Head to the park (make sure it's the correct park for the correct day, no switching)
8. Do some things
9. Go to your first genie reservation
10. Make another reservation
11. Shoot, run to your ILL, that time is now
12. Do some things
13. Go to your next genie reservation
14. Make another reservation
15. Do some things
16. Arrive at your dining reservation
17. Do you still have Genie plus availability? If so, make another.
18. Do some things
19. Go to Genie plus reservation
20. Do some things
21. Head to your hotel to relax

Now, do like Cedar Point:

1. Buy some tickets and reserve a hotel
2. Travel to Sandusky
3. Head to the park
4. Buy lightning lane (if you think you will need it)
5. Do stuff
6. Head to hotel.

Well the difference there is that a trip to Orlando usually lasts a week or two (even three or four weeks for us Europeans) of doing either just Disney or going all out and throwing Universal, SeaWorld, Busch Gardens, Legoland, Kennedy Space Centre, a day at the beach, the malls, water parks etc in to the mix and that takes planning and coordination to make the most out of this super $$$$ vacation.


A trip to Cedar Point, Six Flags etc is a mindless cheap day trip that yes, does not require planning. You drive up in the morning and drive home at the end of the day. So cheap of a day trip that if you don't get much done it doesn't really matter. You'll probably get the chance to go again whereas for a lot of people, Disney World/Orlando is a once in lifetime trip. There's the difference here.

 

[Andrew25]

I've loved theme parks all my life, do research when I have downtime, and keep up to date with information/rumors on a daily basis. I have an AP to WDW and yet I still don't know how everything works.

The only planning you should be doing is travel, accommodations, and park tickets.

Lightning Lane (which should revert to the Fastpass name since everyone, including CMs, still call it that and would at least reduce some complexity) should convert into a one-time "all-inclusive" purchase.

If the parks had been updated to accommodate the attendance they receive, there would be no need to worry about rope dropping, waking up at 7 am for boarding groups, etc.

 

[Riviera Rita]

Fine Disney Park nerd

Eh?

 

[scottieRoss]

Planning for Disney is not complicated or stressful if .... You realize you are making a multi thousand dollar purchase. Just like you would not do some research before buying a car, Disney requires some research.
Conversely, if you decide to not do the research before purchase, you will probably pay more or not get as much car as you wanted. Same goes for a Disney vacation, do a little research and you will get more for your money and be less likely to be disappointed.
Finally, comparing a Disney trip to a local theme park is apples and oranges. You do not do all the planning for a few hour trip to Six Flags. Because you are going for a few hours. Disney is a multi-day experience and Thousands of Dollars more

 

[Andrew25]

Planning for Disney is not complicated or stressful if .... You realize you are making a multi thousand dollar purchase. Just like you would not do some research before buying a car, Disney requires some research.
Conversely, if you decide to not do the research before purchase, you will probably pay more or not get as much car as you wanted. Same goes for a Disney vacation, do a little research and you will get more for your money and be less likely to be disappointed.
Finally, comparing a Disney trip to a local theme park is apples and oranges. You do not do all the planning for a few hour trip to Six Flags. Because you are going for a few hours. Disney is a multi-day experience and Thousands of Dollars more

It shouldn't be like that. Going, or thinking of, to Disney should be fun and free from stress. You should not be worrying about waking up at 7am to get a boarding group that you or may not get, etc.

 

[scottieRoss]

I've loved theme parks all my life, do research when I have downtime, and keep up to date with information/rumors on a daily basis. I have an AP to WDW and yet I still don't know how everything works.

The only planning you should be doing is travel, accommodations, and park tickets.

Lightning Lane (which should revert to the Fastpass name since everyone, including CMs, still call it that and would at least reduce some complexity) should convert into a one-time "all-inclusive" purchase.

If the parks had been updated to accommodate the attendance they receive, there would be no need to worry about rope dropping, waking up at 7 am for boarding groups, etc.

@Andrew25
Park Reservations are a necessity. It can be seen this week. If not for Park Reservations, guests would drive to WDW and not know if they could get in. This is clear since Magic Kingdom is sold out all week.
Disney can never change to an all inclusive Line Skip pass. The crowds are so much higher at Disney so to make it work, then it would have to be priced higher even than Universal. And there is no way they could do deluxe resorts get it free, Disney has almost 5 times the deluxe rooms. The rooms alone would fill the Front of the Line queue all day long. It just is not feasible.

 

[Touchdown]

@Andrew25
Park Reservations are a necessity. It can be seen this week. If not for Park Reservations, guests would drive to WDW and not know if they could get in. This is clear since Magic Kingdom is sold out all week.
Disney can never change to an all inclusive Line Skip pass. The crowds are so much higher at Disney so to make it work, then it would have to be priced higher even than Universal. And there is no way they could do deluxe resorts get it free, Disney has almost 5 times the deluxe rooms. The rooms alone would fill the Front of the Line queue all day long. It just is not feasible.

Which is odd because:

if I could choose I would want to be at MK right now.

 

[Andrew25]

@Andrew25
Park Reservations are a necessity. It can be seen this week. If not for Park Reservations, guests would drive to WDW and not know if they could get in. This is clear since Magic Kingdom is sold out all week.
Disney can never change to an all inclusive Line Skip pass. The crowds are so much higher at Disney so to make it work, then it would have to be priced higher even than Universal. And there is no way they could do deluxe resorts get it free, Disney has almost 5 times the deluxe rooms. The rooms alone would fill the Front of the Line queue all day long. It just is not feasible.

Park reservations/Genie have done nothing to reduce crowding. The parks are still busy, you are still getting shoved inside a monorail, you are being asked to essentially stand face to face during preshows to fill in all the available space. The park experience has not gotten any better.

My idea of a "Universal Express" style system at WDW would be for purchase only - not given for free for deluxe resorts.

Which is odd because:

if I could choose I would want to be at MK right now.

Almost like having a lot of attractions to accommodate capacity in one park... helps reduce crowding? I am shocked by this revelation!

 

[LSLS]

Planning for Disney is not complicated or stressful if .... You realize you are making a multi thousand dollar purchase. Just like you would not do some research before buying a car, Disney requires some research.
Conversely, if you decide to not do the research before purchase, you will probably pay more or not get as much car as you wanted. Same goes for a Disney vacation, do a little research and you will get more for your money and be less likely to be disappointed.
Finally, comparing a Disney trip to a local theme park is apples and oranges. You do not do all the planning for a few hour trip to Six Flags. Because you are going for a few hours. Disney is a multi-day experience and Thousands of Dollars more

So comparing to other theme parks that have 2 or so parks is apples and oranges, not apples to apples like comparing a vacation to a theme park to buying a car.

 

[dfisher9]

I do remember the mad rush and you have a valid point, my thoughts on it were more that because it would be split into time blocks you wouldn't have people rushing all at once (maybe I'm being naive).

Something like this:

At park opening FastPasses are offered for times between now and noon.
At 11am passes are offered from noon to 4pm
At 3pm passes are offered from 4pm to close

This has even more of an opportunity to be chaos. Imagine joining the rush to get the first set of Fastpasses for Slinky Dog Dash. Get there, and "OH NO" they are sold out until 12. Go do Runaway Railroad and then Tower of Terror/Rock 'n' Roller Coaster. Go all the way to Slinky Dog Dash only to find a line forming waiting for Fastpass. "OH NO" they are sold out until 3. Do the rest of Toy Story Land, get lunch, and head over to Galaxy's Edge. Leave earlier this time so you can get a Fastpass. "Success!", you get a Fastpass for 745, at which time you get to make your 4th trip to Toy Story Land to ride.

 

[Riviera Rita]

I do remember the mad rush and you have a valid point, my thoughts on it were more that because it would be split into time blocks you wouldn't have people rushing all at once (maybe I'm being naive).

Something like this:

At park opening FastPasses are offered for times between now and noon.
At 11am passes are offered from noon to 4pm
At 3pm passes are offered from 4pm to close

At the same time you still allow 1 FastPass+ reservation to be made 60 days out, but only for those staying on-site to keep that incentive in place.

The thinking here is that by offering it as a hybrid system it doesn't massively benefit or screw over one particular group over another. FastPass+ was slightly too powerful as it meant on-site guests took up practically all availability well before offsite guests had a chance.

By moving some of it back to physical tickets you'll no doubt still have the initial rush but theoretically its going to be less of an issue as the FastPass+ part of it, and the spreading of time blocks would in turn spread out the capacity, and thus the time people arrive at the parks.

Also agree on ADR's. 60 days is plenty.

This all being said, FastPass+ alone was leaps and bounds better than Genie+ / LL so I'd be more than happy to go back to that! I just think it needs a few tweaks to prevent the overly harsh penalty on off-site guests, which a lot of first timers will be (especially in this climate).

The blocks would mean you would have to work your day around these blocks and make sure you walked to Slinky at midday to find either find it's only the 4pm slots are left or that they have all gone, so what do you do, wander over there and join the queue that will inevitably be there at 11.30, sending the most patient person to do it? Resort guests already have lost a lot of the perks of paying the extra, so let them have that perk of FP+ 60 days out, but, holding back 10-20% to be released 30 days out for the most popular rides for everyone else, including those who have booked a last minute trip to stay at a resort. It would not add to the payroll on site to do this and would be safer all around because there will always be guests who joined the paper FP line half an hour before release and all the FP are still all gone or too late for them by the time they get to the front of the line and who do they take it out on? That's right, the CM stood by the machine.