Disney stand alone hotels

lt94

New Member
Original Poster
paste above to see Sentinal story

"I really think about Disney as being a brand more than just a place. And that brand can be portable — it doesn't just have to exist in a handful of locations around the globe," he said. "It's just a question of when. And right now, I don't think it's the best time."
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
A cleaner link.

Disney's vision of standalone hotels fades for now

Nearly five years after it outlined an ambitious vision of standalone hotels, niche parks and retail centers built in outposts far beyond its world-famous theme-park resorts, the Walt Disney Co. today has no such projects in its public development pipeline.

That's the case after the company late last week abandoned plans to build a roughly 500-room, Disney-branded hotel near Washington, D.C. Disney, which spent $11 million to buy land in the area in early 2009, said the timing simply wasn't right for the project.

The move follows an early stumble at Disney's first big foray into standalone resorts: Aulani, the roughly $850 million hotel and time share that opened Aug. 29 on the Hawaiian island of Oahu. Disney was forced to suspend sales in the project for two months this summer after it realized it had underestimated the annual fees needed to cover the resort's operating costs; Disney will now have to subsidize the fees paid by early time-share buyers for the next 50 years.

At the same time, Disney Co. executives have pledged to investors to reduce capital spending once the company completes a current slate of projects that includes the Hawaiian resort, two new cruise ships, and park expansions around the world. Capital spending at Disney's theme-park division nearly doubled during the company's 2011 fiscal year — from $1.5 billion to $2.7 billion — and is expected to approach $3 billion in 2012.

"They have more than enough to chew on for the next three to four years," said Tony Wible, a media-and-entertainment equities analyst at Janney Capital Markets. "And the early headwinds in Hawaii — to put it politely — probably lead them to be less confident."

Disney says it may yet build more hotels outside of Central Florida and Southern California, where it operates its massive Walt Disney World and Disneyland resorts.

"We have seen tremendous enthusiasm for Aulani, and all of our key sales locations for Aulani are performing well. Based on our experience to date, additional standalone resorts in the future are a very real possibility," Disney spokeswoman Tasia Filippatos said Tuesday.

Disney said the decision to back out of Washington was entirely unrelated to Aulani's time-share problems; the company says it never planned to include a time-share component in the D.C. project.

To be sure, there was always an element of uncertainty for Disney's presence in Washington. Even when the company announced it had bought 15 acres along the Potomac River in May 2009, it said only that it was "considering" using the site for a hotel.

And other, more-pressing projects subsequently supplanted it on Disney's priority list. For instance, seven months after buying the Washington property, Disney, after years of negotiations, signed a framework deal to build its first theme-park resort on mainland China. The first phase of Shanghai Disneyland, along with two hotels and a retail district, will cost roughly $4.4 billion, though more than half of that pricetag will be borne by the Chinese government.

In addition, Disney this fall acquired the theme-park rights to James Cameron's "Avatar" film franchise. As part of the deal, Disney will build Avatar-themed "lands" in multiple theme parks around the world, beginning with a roughly $500 million project in Disney's Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World.

But analysts say the decision to scrap the Washington project also reflects just how challenging it could be for Disney to sustain standalone hotels, which, after all, can't bank on theme-park visitors to drive occupancy. They are a particularly heavy lift in a still-moribund real-estate environment in which Disney can't bank on quick time-share sales to help sustain a resort.

Disney doesn't expect Aulani to achieve sustained occupancy levels until January 2015, according to documents submitted to state time-share regulators in Hawaii. The project is expected to be fully built by 2013.

"When they started planning these one-off hotels and other projects, it was a different environment," said Hal Vogel, a stock analyst who follows the leisure industry. "My guess is that this will not be revived anytime soon."

Also worth noting: Several senior managers in place when Disney first articulated the standalone-resort strategy are no longer with the company's parks division.

Former parks Chairman Jay Rasulo, the executive most closely associated with the strategy, is now the Disney Co.'s chief financial officer, having swapped jobs with current parks chief Tom Staggs. Meanwhile, Al Weiss, the parks division's former president of worldwide operations, retired this fall. And Jim Lewis, the former president of Disney's time-share business, was fired because of the Aulani error.

In what Disney calls a bullish sign, the company plans to raise its time-share prices at Aulani next week. And Wible said he still thinks the standalone-hotel concept could become a viable growth business for Disney — eventually.

"I really think about Disney as being a brand more than just a place. And that brand can be portable — it doesn't just have to exist in a handful of locations around the globe," he said. "It's just a question of when. And right now, I don't think it's the best time."

jrgarcia@tribune.com or 407-420-5414
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I think it is going to take quite a few stars to line up before Disney builds a stand alone resort again. Like the article stated, there will not be a theme park to drive occupancy. The resort will have to be a destination in its own right and they simply can not put it anywhere. If Aulani is making money once the dust settles in a few years we might see them take a stab at similar projects in similar locations.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
I think it is going to take quite a few stars to line up before Disney builds a stand alone resort again. Like the article stated, there will not be a theme park to drive occupancy. The resort will have to be a destination in its own right and they simply can not put it anywhere. If Aulani is making money once the dust settles in a few years we might see them take a stab at similar projects in similar locations.

I for one would love a Disney themed resort in NYC...
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I for one would love a Disney themed resort in NYC...
What I would not mind seeing is the Aulani model done in other locations. I have always liked somewhat adventurous or exotic locations but have shied away from them simply because you never know what you are going to get. Adding a resort with the Disney name to those locations is like an insurance policy. I would love to see Disney resorts in Alaska, Yosemite, Costa Rica, Mexico, Australia, etc.
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
As I mentioned in the other thread yesterday, Disney CAN do this. They just need to get back to emphasizing service and quality that in no way relies on cartoon characters. They used to do this at their resort hotels, and for a time their great dining experiences and adventurous theming and quality service were landing them on Food Network, Travel Channel, and other shows just as often as for characters. I remember when the Boardwalk opened, and my local radio station (WRVA from Richmond) broadcast live from it, along with other local stations from around the country, for a few days. They marveled over the attention to detail, theming, and magnificent food offerings. Donald Duck did stop by (and interacted with our station's mascot, Millard the Mallard), but that was not their main theme.

Quality and service were the theme.

And Hilton Head island and Vero Beach resorts operate separately. Problem there, though, that I found when I stayed once once at Hilton Head was that it sold merchandise in the stores that said "Walt Disney World" or "Disney Parks." It did not have hardly anything themed after its own name.

Disney can do this. It just needs to pay attention to detail again. And stop this reliance on "one Disney" that relies way too much on characters and generic merchandising.

Paul
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
As I mentioned in the other thread yesterday, Disney CAN do this. They just need to get back to emphasizing service and quality that in no way relies on cartoon characters. They used to do this at their resort hotels, and for a time their great dining experiences and adventurous theming and quality service were landing them on Food Network, Travel Channel, and other shows just as often as for characters. I remember when the Boardwalk opened, and my local radio station (WRVA from Richmond) broadcast live from it, along with other local stations from around the country, for a few days. They marveled over the attention to detail, theming, and magnificent food offerings. Donald Duck did stop by (and interacted with our station's mascot, Millard the Mallard), but that was not their main theme.

Quality and service were the theme.

And Hilton Head island and Vero Beach resorts operate separately. Problem there, though, that I found when I stayed once once at Hilton Head was that it sold merchandise in the stores that said "Walt Disney World" or "Disney Parks." It did not have hardly anything themed after its own name.

Disney can do this. I just needs to pay attention to detail again. And stop this reliance on "one Disney" that relies way too much on characters and generic merchandising.

Paul

Well said. Disney can certainly be successful in opening non theme park hotels, but simply using the Disney name, or characters in an otherwise standard hotel offering will just not work.

Fortunately, the Aulani project looks like it was really done right. A beautiful resort, with great theming and tons of little details. From what I can tell they really went all out with the design of the resort, with just enough little Disney touches to make it fun, but not in your face. It would appeal to Disney fans and non-fans alike. It's expensive, but nearly every resort in Hawaii is outrageously priced, and at least it appears that you will get a wonderful experience staying there.

Using the Aulani model could certainly work in other cities that attract lots of families...but I suspect they will wait a few years and look at the Aulani numbers to see if it is worth it.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Well said. Disney can certainly be successful in opening non theme park hotels, but simply using the Disney name, or characters in an otherwise standard hotel offering will just not work.

Fortunately, the Aulani project looks like it was really done right. A beautiful resort, with great theming and tons of little details. From what I can tell they really went all out with the design of the resort, with just enough little Disney touches to make it fun, but not in your face. It would appeal to Disney fans and non-fans alike. It's expensive, but nearly every resort in Hawaii is outrageously priced, and at least it appears that you will get a wonderful experience staying there.

Using the Aulani model could certainly work in other cities that attract lots of families...but I suspect they will wait a few years and look at the Aulani numbers to see if it is worth it.
This is what I am hoping. Aulani is such a detailed resort and I would love to see what the design team would do in other locations.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
What I would not mind seeing is the Aulani model done in other locations. I have always liked somewhat adventurous or exotic locations but have shied away from them simply because you never know what you are going to get. Adding a resort with the Disney name to those locations is like an insurance policy. I would love to see Disney resorts in Alaska, Yosemite, Costa Rica, Mexico, Australia, etc.

Agreed. Personally, I think they could look at some other tropical locations like maybe Cozumel, Grand Cayman, or maybe even their own little island, Castaway Cay. There is certainly enough room there to build it out and further develop it, but at the moment the infrastructure needs to be further expanded to support something like this. Perhaps they could take their time and build it up and plan for something in maybe 5 years or so. The island already has a (defunct) runway that could be re-furbished, maybe lengthened and built-up. They could charter an airline to fly guests in and out of there and expand on what they've already built for the cruise passengers.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Personally, I think they could look at some other tropical locations like maybe Cozumel, Grand Cayman, or maybe even there own little island, Castaway Cay. There is certainly enough room there to build it out and further develop it, but at the moment the infrastructure needs to be further expanded and built up. Perhaps they could take their time and build it up and plan for something in maybe 5 years or so. The island already has a (defunct) runway that could be re-furbished and built-up. They could charter an airline to fly guests in and out of there and expand on what they've already built for the cruise passengers.

I know I'm in the minority, and living in FL helps me to lose interest, but I don't find the tropical locations to be appealing to me (except Hawaii). Like Yoda, I would love to see Yosemite, Yellowstone, Gatlinburg, Banff, Alaska, or anything of the sort.... A Wilderness Lodge actually in the Wilderness!
 

LuvtheGoof

DVC Guru
Premium Member
This is from the article, not Monty, but I wanted to quote this part.

At the same time, Disney Co. executives have pledged to investors to reduce capital spending once the company completes a current slate of projects that includes the Hawaiian resort, two new cruise ships, and park expansions around the world. Capital spending at Disney's theme-park division nearly doubled during the company's 2011 fiscal year — from $1.5 billion to $2.7 billion — and is expected to approach $3 billion in 2012.

[RANT] I absolutely DETEST that Disney is kowtowing to the stupid "investors". This is NOT something that Walt would EVER do. He was about quality, quality, quality. He was constantly looking to make changes, and, it costs money to keep things fresh. Looks like we need a new batch of executives, if all they are thinking about is the bottom line with investors, instead of making the parks, ships, and resorts the best that they can be. I think MORE capital spending (especially in the parks) is needed, not less.[/RANT]
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
[RANT] I absolutely DETEST that Disney is kowtowing to the stupid "investors". This is NOT something that Walt would EVER do. He was about quality, quality, quality. He was constantly looking to make changes, and, it costs money to keep things fresh. Looks like we need a new batch of executives, if all they are thinking about is the bottom line with investors, instead of making the parks, ships, and resorts the best that they can be. I think MORE capital spending (especially in the parks) is needed, not less.[/RANT]

Actually Walt and Roy regularly "kowtowed" to their investors. The difference was that Walt and Roy could really "sell" their visions to the investors and convince them with ease that pouring more money, or extending the credit lines or renegotiating the current terms of whatever agreements they had was in everybody's best interest. They didn't have to go. "Ok, ok, ok...we'll stop spending for awhile..."
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
I for one would love a Disney themed resort in NYC...

You might get a kick out of this then. In a sense, a Disney-designed resort in New York was actually built!

As I mentioned in the other thread yesterday, Disney CAN do this. They just need to get back to emphasizing service and quality that in no way relies on cartoon characters. They used to do this at their resort hotels, and for a time their great dining experiences and adventurous theming and quality service were landing them on Food Network, Travel Channel, and other shows just as often as for characters. I remember when the Boardwalk opened, and my local radio station (WRVA from Richmond) broadcast live from it, along with other local stations from around the country, for a few days. They marveled over the attention to detail, theming, and magnificent food offerings. Donald Duck did stop by (and interacted with our station's mascot, Millard the Mallard), but that was not their main theme.

Quality and service were the theme.

And Hilton Head island and Vero Beach resorts operate separately. Problem there, though, that I found when I stayed once once at Hilton Head was that it sold merchandise in the stores that said "Walt Disney World" or "Disney Parks." It did not have hardly anything themed after its own name.

Disney can do this. It just needs to pay attention to detail again. And stop this reliance on "one Disney" that relies way too much on characters and generic merchandising.

Paul

Good post. But I think we are at least starting to see a turnaround with Aulani. The level of theming and design there is incredible, and there's not a character to be found anywhere, save a solitary sculpture of Stitch and the occasional walkaround Goofy in a Hawaiian shirt. The details to be found there are also amazing, with the touches to native Hawaiian culture, the intricately sculpted rockworrk, and the hidden Menehune sculptures found in the resort. I will agree from what I've heard in reviews though, that it sounds as if they need to step up their game in the cuisine department.
 

lt94

New Member
Original Poster
I understood this article as Disney needs to cut back on spending and curb some of these ideas and as Aulani is a well detailed resort. We all will be paying more I think this is the 2nd or 3rd increse and the resort is still new.
Seems like Disney was a little mis-guided on this one

See this quoat

"In what Disney calls a bullish sign, the company plans to raise its time-share prices at Aulani next week. And Wible said he still thinks the standalone-hotel concept could become a viable growth business for Disney — eventually".
 

majortom1981

Active Member
Disney really should open up a hotel in manhattan. It is now a port for their cruise line and they have their plays on broadway . They can sell packages.

At one point on manhattan real estate sites it was rumored that disney bought property in manhattan but the rumored died .

I think a disney hotel in manhattan would go over real well .Just look at the disney store in times square always packed.
 

Texas84

Well-Known Member
It's been 2-3 years, but there was plenty of Hilton Head merch when we were there last. I have an awesome pullover wind breaker I wear all the time. And a Shadow magnet! Even without, it's an awesome place with plenty of special touches. Highly recommended.
 

Steve31

New Member
Disney always makes nice resorts but the main problem in recent years is keeping the place nice. The past 3 or 4 times i went to Disney World I stayed at the Wilderness Lodge and I personally felt they the way it was kept up get worse but I could be wrong and my experience was an exception. But anyway my point is they have to build something that is really cool to start with, and personally i think it will work better in exotic places, and then after they build it they must continue to make it look really cool. I only hope they do this in Hawaii.
 

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