Disney Springs observations

71jason

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
First time back in a couple months last night. Some random thoughts:

Garage has done nothing to help parking--exiting and entering traffic cross, which creates a mess. I get why--the current garage was designed to cater to I-4 traffic, with the assumption that most surface traffic from 535/Buena Vista will instead turn into the second, as yet unbuilt, garage. So weren't counting on so many first floor entries (I-4 traffic will come in on like the 3d flooe). But until all that construction is done, the smart move is still to park behind HoB/Cirque--still dozens of free spaces even on Friday night.

I'm probably biased because they are a more nautical version of my college colors, but really liking the blue and green color scheme on the Boathouse. Its lighthouse should pair nicely with the Hanger once it's done. Also a fan of the sunken theater--gives the artists more of a performance space without having guests clog up walkways like, say, "the lilypad stage" in front of Fultons.

If anyone got the smelly end of the plunger in the reworking, it's Raglan Road. It looks like the vast majority of guests will walk by its backside. It's a testament to the restaurant's sterling reputation that it had anyone in it at all--have to walk down a dead-end path to get in.

Which brings me to ...

Three Main Concerns for The Landing

1) Granted it's the off-season, but last night, 6:30-7:00ish, despite walkways being so full as to be barely passable, Raglan, Paradiso and Splitsville all had plenty of open tables. Couldn't see into Fultons or Portabello, but no lines outside, so I imagine much the same. That is not a market crying out for four new restaurants, two of them huge. If there were open tables at 7 pm Friday, imagine 9:30 pm Tuesday. Disney Springs needs another T Rex and Earl of Sandwich--the only places I saw lines--more than high end "adult" eateries.

2) Parking. As I said, it should get better with the second garage. But that's years off. And right now the meme is growing among locals that the garage just made a horrible situation worse. Once that idea becomes accepted, hard to dislodge it. Look at Universal--they haven't charged locals to park at CityWalk in years, but I've had to correct plenty of Orlandoites who still think they'll have to pay to eat there.

3) The 10 pm - 2 am market. As King Bob said on the Save PI Blog, this seems to be a major part of keeping the lights on. However the problems that kept PI from being as profitable as it could and should have been are still in place. Namely, the presence of strollers and kids. Unless the Landing adopts an adults only after a certain hour policy (btw, supposedly coming to our Trader Sams, will believe it when I see it), I don't know how successful it will be in drawing the late night drinking crowd.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
First time back in a couple months last night. Some random thoughts:

Garage has done nothing to help parking--exiting and entering traffic cross, which creates a mess. I get why--the current garage was designed to cater to I-4 traffic, with the assumption that most surface traffic from 535/Buena Vista will instead turn into the second, as yet unbuilt, garage. So weren't counting on so many first floor entries (I-4 traffic will come in on like the 3d flooe). But until all that construction is done, the smart move is still to park behind HoB/Cirque--still dozens of free spaces even on Friday night.

I'm probably biased because they are a more nautical version of my college colors, but really liking the blue and green color scheme on the Boathouse. Its lighthouse should pair nicely with the Hanger once it's done. Also a fan of the sunken theater--gives the artists more of a performance space without having guests clog up walkways like, say, "the lilypad stage" in front of Fultons.

If anyone got the smelly end of the plunger in the reworking, it's Raglan Road. It looks like the vast majority of guests will walk by its backside. It's a testament to the restaurant's sterling reputation that it had anyone in it at all--have to walk down a dead-end path to get in.

Which brings me to ...

Three Main Concerns for The Landing

1) Granted it's the off-season, but last night, 6:30-7:00ish, despite walkways being so full as to be barely passable, Raglan, Paradiso and Splitsville all had plenty of open tables. Couldn't see into Fultons or Portabello, but no lines outside, so I imagine much the same. That is not a market crying out for four new restaurants, two of them huge. If there were open tables at 7 pm Friday, imagine 9:30 pm Tuesday. Disney Springs needs another T Rex and Earl of Sandwich--the only places I saw lines--more than high end "adult" eateries.

2) Parking. As I said, it should get better with the second garage. But that's years off. And right now the meme is growing among locals that the garage just made a horrible situation worse. Once that idea becomes accepted, hard to dislodge it. Look at Universal--they haven't charged locals to park at CityWalk in years, but I've had to correct plenty of Orlandoites who still think they'll have to pay to eat there.

3) The 10 pm - 2 am market. As King Bob said on the Save PI Blog, this seems to be a major part of keeping the lights on. However the problems that kept PI from being as profitable as it could and should have been are still in place. Namely, the presence of strollers and kids. Unless the Landing adopts an adults only after a certain hour policy (btw, supposedly coming to our Trader Sams, will believe it when I see it), I don't know how successful it will be in drawing the late night drinking crowd.

We visited on a Sunday in early December and saw much of the same thing as far as the restaurants having open tables and no lines with the exception of Earl and T-Rex. (Same night the bar was full of kids I was discussing in 74 thread). Had a drink at Ragland and it was nearly empty. Crowded walkways but not many eating. We actually wound up eating at Uno Pizzeria. Had never been there and now its a new must do for us. Wish we had one in Atlanta.
 

fillerup

Well-Known Member
2) Parking. As I said, it should get better with the second garage. But that's years off. And right now the meme is growing among locals that the garage just made a horrible situation worse. Once that idea becomes accepted, hard to dislodge it. Look at Universal--they haven't charged locals to park at CityWalk in years, but I've had to correct plenty of Orlandoites who still think they'll have to pay to eat there.

Interesting post. But to your point about parking - I'm an Orlandoan and had no idea Citywalk parking was free for Florida residents. That's why I haven't been there in years.

If I read the info correctly - it's free after 6pm. Is that correct?
 

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
Interesting post. But to your point about parking - I'm an Orlandoan and had no idea Citywalk parking was free for Florida residents. That's why I haven't been there in years. If I read the info correctly - it's free after 6pm. Is that correct?

Correct, CityWalk garage is free for Florida residents beginning at 6pm nightly. Except during Halloween Horror Nights. For everyone else, there is a nominal parking charge until 10pm when it becomes free.
 

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
71Jason, it's only been recently that Raglan Road has been impacted much by the Disney Springs construction. And once stores fill the former Pleasure Island parking lot, it will be in the thick of foot traffic again. I think it's really Paradiso 37 that has been impacted the most by DS construction. It seems like every week this past year access to the place has changed as construction walls were moved around and around and around.

I agree with the parking situation. Using the garage is not user friendly at all, at least not currently. I find it much easier to park anywhere but in that garage, even across the road. That has to get better.

I also agree with you about the restaurant situation and I recall you questioning things long before any construction even began. Summer is 15 weeks, Christmas Break is 2 weeks, Spring Break/Easter is another 4 weeks, Thanksgiving is a week. Disney Springs will be packed and the restaurants will do good. That's just 22 weeks but the year has 52. Who is going to fill all those tables the other 30 weeks? CityWalk hasn't stood idly by and I-Drive has gone crazy with offerings.
 

fillerup

Well-Known Member
I have this sneaking suspicion that once the new ramp from I-4 into the garage is completed that dozens, maybe hundreds of cars a day will arrive in the garage by accident.

No matter how well marked or how good the driver, people will wind up in there and just add to the mess and confusion.

I remember many years ago - first trip to the DC area, I thought I knew what I was doing until I discovered I was in a parking lot of the Pentagon.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Looks like the lack of outside experience might have a significant impact based on J's observations, and not in a good way.

Things just dont seem like they were thought through very well.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Three Main Concerns for The Landing

1) Granted it's the off-season, but last night, 6:30-7:00ish, despite walkways being so full as to be barely passable, Raglan, Paradiso and Splitsville all had plenty of open tables. Couldn't see into Fultons or Portabello, but no lines outside, so I imagine much the same. That is not a market crying out for four new restaurants, two of them huge. If there were open tables at 7 pm Friday, imagine 9:30 pm Tuesday. Disney Springs needs another T Rex and Earl of Sandwich--the only places I saw lines--more than high end "adult" eateries.

Point one is valid if looking at The Landing in isolation, but remember it will be surrounded by a lot more. Disney is expecting a lot of extra people with the expansion, and The Landing will serve as the dining district for all those extra guests. We really have to wait for completion to judge this one.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Three Main Concerns for The Landing

1) Granted it's the off-season, but last night, 6:30-7:00ish, despite walkways being so full as to be barely passable, Raglan, Paradiso and Splitsville all had plenty of open tables. Couldn't see into Fultons or Portabello, but no lines outside, so I imagine much the same. That is not a market crying out for four new restaurants, two of them huge. If there were open tables at 7 pm Friday, imagine 9:30 pm Tuesday. Disney Springs needs another T Rex and Earl of Sandwich--the only places I saw lines--more than high end "adult" eateries.
I think there is some thought that the high end "adult" eateries will be an attraction themselves. They will bring in additional adult shoppers who will spend time shopping and eating there. Some tourists will eat there too, but it seems like they are targeting the convention and locals crowd more. It will be interesting to see if that market ever develops.

3) The 10 pm - 2 am market. As King Bob said on the Save PI Blog, this seems to be a major part of keeping the lights on. However the problems that kept PI from being as profitable as it could and should have been are still in place. Namely, the presence of strollers and kids. Unless the Landing adopts an adults only after a certain hour policy (btw, supposedly coming to our Trader Sams, will believe it when I see it), I don't know how successful it will be in drawing the late night drinking crowd.
If all of the venues ban kids after 10PM it should dry up the toddler and stroller crowd. I'm always amazed that so many people actually take pre-school aged kids out that late and then drag them to a theme park the next day, but to each their own.

I don't see them ever barricading the Landing area although it would be pretty easy to do. The best we can hope for is the individual venues agree to a ban.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Interesting post. But to your point about parking - I'm an Orlandoan and had no idea Citywalk parking was free for Florida residents. That's why I haven't been there in years.

If I read the info correctly - it's free after 6pm. Is that correct?

Yes it is, for Florida residents. Just show your driver's license.

And that's exactly my point, it's hardly just you, I know a lot of Orlandoians who didn't realize that, even though I think it's been free longer than they charged at night. Once people get an idea in their head--"I have to pay to park at CityWalk", "Downtown Disney parking is a mess"--it takes years to correct that.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
71Jason, it's only been recently that Raglan Road has been impacted much by the Disney Springs construction. And once stores fill the former Pleasure Island parking lot, it will be in the thick of foot traffic again. I think it's really Paradiso 37 that has been impacted the most by DS construction. It seems like every week this past year access to the place has changed as construction walls were moved around and around and around.

Paradiso no doubt took the biggest hit from construction, but they should be ok once the "lake bypass" closes again (it was temporary, correct?). Raglan's issues are only starting. Coming from Marketplace, the flow of pedestrians combined with that lighthouse weenie and the music from the sunken stage is going to pull people right, toward Boathouse. Raglan was clearly designed to front toward the parking lot/Mannequins, catching people as they walked in the main PI entrance. It almost needs to do a 180 on its entrance to entice passers-by.

I agree with the parking situation. Using the garage is not user friendly at all, at least not currently. I find it much easier to park anywhere but in that garage, even across the road. That has to get better.
Again, I think it will with garage #2. But that's years of building up a bad rep until that happens.

I also agree with you about the restaurant situation and I recall you questioning things long before any construction even began. Summer is 15 weeks, Christmas Break is 2 weeks, Spring Break/Easter is another 4 weeks, Thanksgiving is a week. Disney Springs will be packed and the restaurants will do good. That's just 22 weeks but the year has 52. Who is going to fill all those tables the other 30 weeks? CityWalk hasn't stood idly by and I-Drive has gone crazy with offerings.

And if you can't fill tables at dinner, how many will be left after 10 to have a few drinks. Again to paraphrase King Bob, that's 4 hours every night, that time needs to be profitable.

(Also, quibbling here, not sure how busy DTD gets on Summer weeknights, when parks are open until 1 or 2; I know most of the resort restaurants/bars take a hit. Which just means a smaller window. 10 - 12 weeks may be more like it.)
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think there is some thought that the high end "adult" eateries will be an attraction themselves. They will bring in additional adult shoppers who will spend time shopping and eating there. Some tourists will eat there too, but it seems like they are targeting the convention and locals crowd more. It will be interesting to see if that market ever develops.

Interesting theory on shoppers, but not borne out by real world experience in Orlando. Millenia--the high end mall beloved by international guests with money--supports a PF Changs, a Cheescake Factory and a Fridays. Higher end casual chains, but nothing on the level of a Morimoto or STK. Florida Mall, also a major shopping mecca, has a Buca de Beppo. Premium Outlets North doesn't have much of anything in terms of table service; a few places tried and failed in Festival Bay. Premium South has an Outback and a Dicks Last Resort.

The comparable restaurants to Disney Springs in Orlando are on Sand Lake Road or in Pointe Orlando--they cater to the convention crowd, not shoppers. That's the real market for DS. Unless the DS restaurants plan on adopting the DDP and offering salmon, flank steak and a burger.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Interesting theory on shoppers, but not borne out by real world experience in Orlando. Millenia--the high end mall beloved by international guests with money--supports a PF Changs, a Cheescake Factory and a Fridays. Higher end casual chains, but nothing on the level of a Morimoto or STK. Florida Mall, also a major shopping mecca, has a Buca de Beppo. Premium Outlets North doesn't have much of anything in terms of table service; a few places tried and failed in Festival Bay. Premium South has an Outback and a Dicks Last Resort.

The comparable restaurants to Disney Springs in Orlando are on Sand Lake Road or in Pointe Orlando--they cater to the convention crowd, not shoppers. That's the real market for DS. Unless the DS restaurants plan on adopting the DDP and offering salmon, flank steak and a burger.
Good points. The convention business is pretty large and with a large portion of people being there for work paying with a corporate CC the cost isn't prohibitive. If these places end up taking DDP I can't see a way they make it. There is plenty for the tourist crowd already there. People with kids would probably prefer T-Rex or RFC anyway. Well the kids will anyway. To be successful they have to differentiate themselves and keep a high end feel. As you point out there isn't a place where you can currently go to shop at high end stores and eat in a high end restaurant.

The trick is getting people to think of The Landing as the place to go. While the issues with parking are troubling now once it's all done they will need to focus on drawing in those customers. I think the effort will be made to get it done...the question is do they have the dedication and desire to keep it that way 5 or 10 years down the road when the newness is worn off.
 

Bolt

Well-Known Member
First time back in a couple months last night. Some random thoughts:

Garage has done nothing to help parking--exiting and entering traffic cross, which creates a mess. I get why--the current garage was designed to cater to I-4 traffic, with the assumption that most surface traffic from 535/Buena Vista will instead turn into the second, as yet unbuilt, garage. So weren't counting on so many first floor entries (I-4 traffic will come in on like the 3d flooe). But until all that construction is done, the smart move is still to park behind HoB/Cirque--still dozens of free spaces even on Friday night.

I'm probably biased because they are a more nautical version of my college colors, but really liking the blue and green color scheme on the Boathouse. Its lighthouse should pair nicely with the Hanger once it's done. Also a fan of the sunken theater--gives the artists more of a performance space without having guests clog up walkways like, say, "the lilypad stage" in front of Fultons.

If anyone got the smelly end of the plunger in the reworking, it's Raglan Road. It looks like the vast majority of guests will walk by its backside. It's a testament to the restaurant's sterling reputation that it had anyone in it at all--have to walk down a dead-end path to get in.

Which brings me to ...

Three Main Concerns for The Landing

1) Granted it's the off-season, but last night, 6:30-7:00ish, despite walkways being so full as to be barely passable, Raglan, Paradiso and Splitsville all had plenty of open tables. Couldn't see into Fultons or Portabello, but no lines outside, so I imagine much the same. That is not a market crying out for four new restaurants, two of them huge. If there were open tables at 7 pm Friday, imagine 9:30 pm Tuesday. Disney Springs needs another T Rex and Earl of Sandwich--the only places I saw lines--more than high end "adult" eateries.

2) Parking. As I said, it should get better with the second garage. But that's years off. And right now the meme is growing among locals that the garage just made a horrible situation worse. Once that idea becomes accepted, hard to dislodge it. Look at Universal--they haven't charged locals to park at CityWalk in years, but I've had to correct plenty of Orlandoites who still think they'll have to pay to eat there.

3) The 10 pm - 2 am market. As King Bob said on the Save PI Blog, this seems to be a major part of keeping the lights on. However the problems that kept PI from being as profitable as it could and should have been are still in place. Namely, the presence of strollers and kids. Unless the Landing adopts an adults only after a certain hour policy (btw, supposedly coming to our Trader Sams, will believe it when I see it), I don't know how successful it will be in drawing the late night drinking crowd.
I don't believe the second garage is 'years' away as it has already started.
 

Mouse Detective

Well-Known Member
[COUNTDOWN=][/COUNTDOWN]
this is a little of topic but has anyone else noticed the old man with the Ferrari hat dancing at DTD? I swear he is there every single time I go, usually at night. Just wondering if in the only one that has spotted him frequently.
Yes, that's Eddy Maserati, the owner of the local Ferrari and Maserati car dealerships and part of the Maserati family. The Orlando Sentinel recently did an article about him. We see him at CityWalk too. He's a legend!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/os-most-fascinating-eddy-maserati-20140912-story.html
 

TestTrack Dummy

Well-Known Member

SnarkyMonkey

Well-Known Member
I think the observation that Disney Springs will be a draw for the convention crowd is correct. And, as stated, they have their meals paid for through expense accounts, etc. So, they will be looking for higher end establishments.

I really don't think they are depending on locals. Between conventioneers and tourists, I think they are good.
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
Paradiso no doubt took the biggest hit from construction, but they should be ok once the "lake bypass" closes again (it was temporary, correct?). Raglan's issues are only starting. Coming from Marketplace, the flow of pedestrians combined with that lighthouse weenie and the music from the sunken stage is going to pull people right, toward Boathouse. Raglan was clearly designed to front toward the parking lot/Mannequins, catching people as they walked in the main PI entrance. It almost needs to do a 180 on its entrance to entice passers-by.

If you look at the full model of Disney Springs, you can see the Raglan is still right in the heart of everything.

Watch the video and pause it at the 1:00 mark.


You can see the octagonal roof of Raglan in the background. The fastest route from all of the new things in the foreground (to be built where the PI lot was) to the "beacon" that is the lighthouse at the rear is to go right past Raglan. Otherwise you'd loop around past Lego or the far end of PI.

-Rob
 

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