Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[Phil12]

New Disney Skyliners closed as gondola incident investigated

Many passengers describe being stranded for more than three hours aboard the new gondola transportation system at Walt Disney World.

www.clickorlando.com

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

I am glad that happened at night in October. I think it was a good trial for future issues. A good warning too. Can anyone say if, and I know this is a gross question, if it smelled bad in the cabins? People are sweaty, diapers may be dirty. Is there any way to dispose of the body waste bags? I know of at least one passenger who threw up last night. Im not sure if i could take a stuffy, smelly cabin for long without getting sick myself.

Here's a question I have. As I've gotten older I've really developed some pretty severe claustrophobia and I'm curious if people that have that might have really been in a tough spot during this? I've had some pretty severe panic attacks because of claustrophobia and it's a TERRIBLE feeling and my heart would go out to anyone that can't stand cramped spaces that had to spend all that time in there with literally nowhere to go.

 

[Kram Sacul]

I heard some folks got a $200 giftcard and multiple park passes! That would definitely make it worth it a bit, lol

I was just talking to my friend the other day about it. 3 hours in a gondola? Sign me up.

 

[Hawg G]

Which university did you goto again?

Purdue. And they would have taken off 5 points for writing "goto".

Plus, I have over a decade of pretty serious HAZOP/LOPA experience for multi-billion dollar chemical plants.

I know a thing or two about risk assessment and analysis, and IMHO, Disney did a poor job of it. Day 6, and they have a shutdown that takes 3 hours to fix. I doubt they even considered a 3 hour shutdown in any analysis, because barring an absolutely catastrophic failure, there should be ways to get the cable moving again WELL within 3 hours. What happened yesterday should have NEVER caused that long of a shutdown. Because what happened yesterday WILL happen again. Disney dodged a MASSIVE bullet. If heads aren't rolling at 8 am tomorrow, I question the capabilities of Imagineering and Disney.

 

[joelkfla]

I was there last week but didn’t get a chance to ride the Skyliner. I would have if I had the opportunity. This accident/stoppage/whatever it is has scared the heck out of me. I’m sure I’m not alone. They are going to have to demonstrate a long stretch of problem free ops before I get on the thing. “The car failed to properly attach to the tow rope”??? Doesn’t that freak out anybody else? Six days after they opened it? The right thing was to shut it down and dig in. The whole thing. I’m glad they did but wow. What if it was 95 degrees? What if there was a storm? The system broke and Disney was not prepared. They were LUCKY.

There's no indication that the grip failed to operate properly. The eyewitness report says that the cabin failed to advance out of the station to the point where it would have gripped onto the cable. In photos, the cabin appears to be near where it just starts to accelerate to cable speed. IMHO, it may have been a failure of the mechanisms that move the cabins through the station, or the cabin got hung up on something.

 

[Sonconato]

Here's a question I have. As I've gotten older I've really developed some pretty severe claustrophobia and I'm curious if people that have that might have really been in a tough spot during this? I've had some pretty severe panic attacks because of claustrophobia and it's a TERRIBLE feeling and my heart would go out to anyone that can't stand cramped spaces that had to spend all that time in there with literally nowhere to go.

I have found as I get older I have gained claustrophobia myself and I too sympathize with them. As I recall that there is a thread somewhere on here where they discussed this very thing. I can't remember the name of it but people have definitely had similar thoughts as ours.

 

[MrMcDuck]

Here's a question I have. As I've gotten older I've really developed some pretty severe claustrophobia and I'm curious if people that have that might have really been in a tough spot during this? I've had some pretty severe panic attacks because of claustrophobia and it's a TERRIBLE feeling and my heart would go out to anyone that can't stand cramped spaces that had to spend all that time in there with literally nowhere to go.

Someone over at the DIS just shared their experience which included someone in their gondola having a panic attack, hyperventilating, etc. They pressed the emergency button and received a generic reply that they were working to resolve the situation (which cut off mid-sentence because there were some speaker problems) and were never contacted directly again.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Nice strawmen there.
When people get stuck on Space Mountain, they’re in an air conditioned building where cast members can get to their cars and walk them off the ride.
When the skyliner goes down people are hanging high off the ground in an un air conditioned glass and metal box possibly exposed to the full force of the Florida sun with no easy way to get off.
Again, slight difference.

Except not. They're in a heavily tinted box with open ventilation. Yes, there are easy access points to evac on the break runs, but the point is that things break down, often.

Your love the monorail so much yet that system too went down a few weeks ago, guests were sweltering in there (unlike the gondola, no open ventilation) when the A/C shut off and they had to pop open the emergency hatches for ventilation. Eventually RCID had to get them off the beam with a cherry picker, which is exactly what would have happened here.

 

[note2001]

I have found as I get older I have gained claustrophobia myself and I too sympathize with them. As I recall that there is a thread somewhere on here where they discussed this very thing. I can't remember the name of it but people have definitely had similar thoughts as ours.

Not claustrophobic, but if I were caught up there each little sway with the breeze over the span of 3 hours would be met with involuntary shaking on my part. I think the emergency kits need to pack a bottle or two of wine, preferably white as I'm allergic to red.

 

[WDWTrojan]

That essentially sums it up. It blows my mind how badly this whole system was designed.

From essentially day 1 Disney’s whole attitude towards who brought up the potential hazards of being trapped for hours in an un air conditioned car high off the ground in a state with scorching temperatures and frequent strong thunderstorms has been “Don’t worry about it. It’ll be fine.”

Just as mind blowing are the number of Disney apologists who, despite the fact every piece of evidence has pointed to this being a badly designed system built on the cheap, have constantly defended and echoed Disney’s position that it’ll be fine and things like being stuck in one of these in 100 degree heat is no big deal.

And, now that they’ve had an incident less than a few weeks in, their defenses have changed from “It’ll never happen” to “Oh yeah? What about the Monorail? What about Space Mountain? What about FOP? They break down too.
Of course they completely ignore all the differences in their straw men argument, but whatever.

Gondola systems work all over the world. Nothing about this is unique to Disney. Yes the climate is different but people rode on the Skyway for decades.

 

[Hawg G]

There's no indication that the grip failed to operate properly. The eyewitness report says that the cabin failed to advance out of the station to the point where it would have gripped onto the cable. In photos, the cabin appears to be near where it just starts to accelerate to cable speed. IMHO, it may have been a failure of the mechanisms that move the cabins through the station, or the cabin got hung up on something.

Which is likely why most skyrides at amusement parks use good 'ole reliable gravity to feed cars on to the cable.

Last night had to have included a motor breakdown, or at the very least a motor not running when asked to, PLUS I would think MULTIPLE sensor failures. Honestly, it is a scenario that would perhaps be thrown out of a HAZOP because it required multiple failures.

Anyone really involved in such work should look at this and really wonder about the design of the system. Plus, the baffling issue where such a minor issue brought down the line for 3 hours. Disney decided to do VERY risky gondola rescues. I don't understand why the cable couldn't have still been moved, and gondolas moved to a storage spur. If a simple motor failure leads to this, WOW, this system was built cheaply.

Is there only one storage space on the whole line that all cars MUST make it back to? And the cars can't be manually removed in a station to clear room to empty the incoming cable?

 

[Tuffer-L]

Yeah because the monorail and peoplemover have never had to have been evacuated...

I remember the original gondola system at Disney- I thought it was amazing then, and that was re-affirmed when I rode the new gondola system on the 29th of September...it’s amazing! Glad no one was hurt, but as Movielover correctly pointed out, all of the transportation systems have glitches, hang-ups, and accidents from time to time. I have no doubt that Disney will get this squared away and running smoothly, I just hope it’s before I visit again next month!

 

[Jonathan Wang]

Except not. They're in a heavily tinted box with open ventilation. Yes, there are easy access points to evac on the break runs, but the point is that things break down, often.

Your love the monorail so much yet that system too went down a few weeks ago, guests were sweltering in there (unlike the gondola, no open ventilation) when the A/C shut off and they had to pop open the emergency hatches for ventilation. Eventually RCID had to get them off the beam with a cherry picker, which is exactly what would have happened here.

tbh on the monorail comment, A they took money away from proper maintenance on the monorails and as you can tell are just now putting money back into it. and B they tried to "improve" the monorail with the automation in 2016 and made it worse with more issues lol

 

[Nunu]

Here's a question I have. As I've gotten older I've really developed some pretty severe claustrophobia and I'm curious if people that have that might have really been in a tough spot during this? I've had some pretty severe panic attacks because of claustrophobia and it's a TERRIBLE feeling and my heart would go out to anyone that can't stand cramped spaces that had to spend all that time in there with literally nowhere to go.

Yesterday I thought about my dad regarding this scenario, he's over 70 years old and has become claustrophobic too. He also has high blood pressure and gets very anxious about the unexpected. I noticed this changes in him last time we visited WDW.
If this happened to us, I'd be very worried about him.

 

[disney4life2008]

The

Yesterday I thought about my dad regarding this scenario, he's over 70 years old and has become claustrophobic too. He also has high blood pressure and gets very anxious about the unexpected. I noticed this changes in him last time we visited WDW.
If this happened to us, I'd be very worried about him.

Not to be mean but he shouldn't ride this anyway from the health conditions you described.

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

Here’s what I can confirm after speaking with a close source:

Shortly after the Skyliner stopped due to the incident at the station, a guest or someone else onboard with them in one of the vehicles called 911. The guest was patched through to Reedy Creek as they were claustrophobic, hyperventilating, and had a history of seizures in the past. The maintenance team that was dispatched to assess what happened was stopped from doing any work until the guest was emergency evacuated as a result of emergency services in the ride path. Reedy Creek had major challenges locating the specific Guest since the vehicle identification number is only printed on the side of each cabin - not on the bottom. The vehicle itself was in a position that obstructed the view of the number as well as the low light conditions. Reportedly the operators also do not have a system in place to determine how many guests are onboard or if the vehicle is occupied at all.

As a result of the delayed evacuation, other guests on board were overloading the emergency call button as well as the 911 operator if they had cell phones. My source is unsure how many other vehicles were evacuated by Reedy Creek, but I’m sure that each minute they were up there and seen doing so elicited more responses from other guests that may not have necessarily required it. People who were in no physical danger - just the many who were exhausted, hot, scared, hungry, needed a restroom, and some who did not speak English.

Once the maintenance team resolved the issue and deemed it safe to do so, they slowly cycled out the Skyliner as this is the most efficient way to get people off any ride.

From my source, it’s been a shared that the emergency kits on board some of the vehicles were previously opened or taken by guests earlier in the day who knew of their existence. Disney would have no way of knowing as It would be an operational nightmare to continuously check the contents of each vehicle throughout the day. They also would have had to come up with some way of locking them that did not impede proper usage. If the kits were not tampered with, they often did not have enough to supply the entire cabin.

- - - - - - -
The following is completely speculatory:

I’m not aware of the failures that happened when the gondola transitions from the station at Rivera back to the main line which resulted in a “trains ahead” collision that caused the Skyliner to emergency stop. I would very much like to know if this was something that the ride system monitors with sensors.

I will say that it’s concerning how fast, to me, the vehicles enter into the station echoing some concerns expressed earlier. If for some reason a group of unaccompanied teenagers or heavy drinkers from one of Epcot’s many festivals decided to forcibly rock the vehicle they were riding in as it enters the station, I fear it would be up to the Cast Members recognize the danger to the vehicles in between and to e-stop it. I’m sure that this has been thought of, but I’m concerned that they are relying too much on the operators in the station or control tower to stop the Skyliner given that there was nothing that preemptively stopped the collision of the vehicle last night.

I would also like to throw my hat into the ring regarding the heat discussion. If you’ve ever been stopped on the PeopleMover in one of the interior tunnels, excluding Space Mountain, it’s completely shielded from the outside elements. However it is not air conditioned and there is absolutely no breeze unless the vehicles are moving. It’s super hot, even in cooler days. Getting evacuated from there takes much less time than being cherry picked or zip lined down by Reedy Creek up in the sky.

The Skyliner is not the Monorail. Both traverse high-in-the-sky above roadways, parking lots, and buildings. While the monorail’s vehicles are condensed into separate trains, the Skyliner’s vehicles are stretched out over a vast space. There’s no towing option either. Logistically it’s a much bigger beast to evacuate the Skyliner.

Time and time again Disney likes to do things on the cheap, but put a fancy dress on it. They are more concerned on appearances and how it goes into the story versus the comfort of the people who actually utilize it. In many cases too, the designers are building with California in mind instead of super intolerable Florida weather. Hell, they even screwed up with Disneyland’s most recent monorail makeover and their lack of cabin ventilation.

Choosing a gondola based transit system that spans long distances in Florida weather, in my opinion, shows how out of touch the powers that control expenditures are at Disney. During normal operation it’s semi-practical, but once it stops for any long period of time it’s logistically going to be a huge problem like we saw.

 

[wombat]

Cheapest. Really. Im pretty sure a horse and wagon would be cheaper.

Well that didn’t last long.

Disney takes the cheapest way out for providing some new type of transportation and here we go. This is going to be horrible press for them. What if folks stop using them. Then what. Waste

Hope there are no injuries

So using your logic, building the whole Skyliner system was cheaper than running extra buses

 

[Mjt5126]

Epcot line was slowly moving cars when we got back to Caribbean Beach from the party at 1215 and were continuing to do so as we got on the magical express at 330

 

[sndral]

...
Any word if outside fire and rescue companies being deployed and how many?

The Orlando Sentinal had a statement from Reedy Creek referencing LE providing mutual aid, since there was no reference to other FDs being deployed, I assume no other FDs deployed.
I would hope that if this were a mid day summer incident and they were unable to clear the line that the resources deployed through mutual aid would have been far greater.

Here’s what I can confirm after speaking with a close source:

Shortly after the Skyliner stopped due to the incident at the station, a guest or someone else onboard with them in one of the vehicles called 911. The guest was patched through to Reedy Creek as they were claustrophobic, hyperventilating, and had a history of seizures in the past. The maintenance team that was dispatched to assess what happened was stopped from doing any work until the guest was emergency evacuated as a result of emergency services in the ride path. Reedy Creek had major challenges locating the specific Guest since the vehicle identification number is only printed on the side of each cabin - not on the bottom. The vehicle itself was in a position that obstructed the view of the number as well as the low light conditions. Reportedly the operators also do not have a system in place to determine how many guests are onboard or if the vehicle is occupied at all.

As a result of the delayed evacuation, other guests on board were overloading the emergency call button as well as the 911 operator if they had cell phones. My source is unsure how many other vehicles were evacuated by Reedy Creek, but I’m sure that each minute they were up there and seen doing so elicited more responses from other guests that may not have necessarily required it. People who were in no physical danger - just the many who were exhausted, hot, scared, hungry, needed a restroom, and some who did not speak English.

Once the maintenance team resolved the issue and deemed it safe to do so, they slowly cycled out the Skyliner as this is the most efficient way to get people off any ride.

From my source, it’s been a shared that the emergency kits on board some of the vehicles were previously opened or taken by guests earlier in the day who knew of their existence. Disney would have no way of knowing as It would be an operational nightmare to continuously check the contents of each vehicle throughout the day. They also would have had to come up with some way of locking them that did not impede proper usage. If the kits were not tampered with, they often did not have enough to supply the entire cabin.
...

Reedy Creek FD’s stated they evacuated 6 cabins.
Well, that explains part of the long delay. I wonder how long it took to get the stuck teal/blue cabin moved out of the way after the people who were needed to be at the Riviera station managed to get there? Or where they there, but couldn’t do anything because Reedy Creek was searching for someone to rescue in one of a hundred plus gondolas?
I’ve only seen photos of one woman being wheeled away in a stretcher, I assume that is the panic attack/seizure lady that they spent all of that time searching for?
Going forward perhaps it would be better to let the people who need to get to the station get to the station, or if they are there at least get an ETA of how long before they can get the system moving. Once that’s known, then the decision can be made whether you should spend vast amounts of time trying to rescue one person thus delaying the safe evacuation of hundreds or more.
So I see three issues:
What caused the crash?
Possibly poor decision making in how to handle recovery, with the focus on one passenger unnecessarily delaying deploying the quickest evacuation method?
Tampering with the rescue kits - maybe a friendly legislator can sponsor a law to up the consequences for that?

 

[MonorailCoral]

So using your logic, building the whole Skyliner system was cheaper than running extra buses

Penny wise, pound foolish.

As we can safely infer from the post above yours, all it will take during any (*even remotely brief) stoppage is that first single, fatigued 911 caller among 300 gondolas to cause the system to go into a cascading mayhem.

And it didn't even take a sweltering July afternoon.

We've all heard the stories about the tragic results of even brief heat waves upon those more susceptible who cannot escape them.

I expect warning cards such as those handed out at Mission: Space to shortly make an appearance at all Skyliner entrances.