Disney Purists vs. Disney Traditionalists

JustinTheClaw

JustinTheClaw

Member
Original Poster
In reading the "Jungle Cruise: What's The Point" thread, I was reminded of a conclusion I came to a few months ago.

There are Disney Fanatics all over the place. They may be fans of the parks, the movies, the animation, what have you, but they all share an appreciation for the legacy left to us by the late, great dreamer. But they share it in different ways.

I got into a debate with a friend of mine about the refurbishment of Pirates of the Caribbean. His stance was Pirates the Attraction was there first and people needed to learn that the movie came years after the ride. He believed that changing the ride was an insult to the legacy. Though I saw his point, I am of the persuasion that the Pirates update is a good thing and will enhance Guests' enjoyment of the Attraction; that most people nowadays have come to know of Pirates of the Caribbean primarily through the movie(s) and will expect the same experience from the ride of the same name.

The conclusion I came to was that there are two major divisions of Disney Fanatics: the Disney Purists and the Disney Traditionalists. The Disney Purists see Disney's world as a place of constant change and reimagining; that Walt would not have let his creations or ideas get old and neither should we. We should constantly keep his world fresh and new and up-to-date. On the other side are the Disney Traditionalists, who believe that Walt was the ultimate Imagineer and that the way he left his world is the way it should remain, free of change, to maintain his legacy. Dispite the changing world around it, Walt's world should stay the same, safe, magical haven it always has been.

I am in the former category. I believe that Walt would not have set still and, for example, let a movie come out based on a Disneyland Attraction and not have any plans to, as he called it, "plus" his Attraction. I also believe that Walt would have set aside cel animation long ago and beaten Pixar to the draw (if you'll pardon the pun) at CG-Animation.

I am interested in what others think about these and other similar debates. What side are you on? Are you a Purist or a Traditionalist?
 
Hakunamatata

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
Its a perplexing subject. On the one hand, I would like to see the classics remain like Toad, 20k, etc. I dont have as much of a problem with the updating of an attraction like the way they are doing Pirates. I think it will be a happy mix of the old and new. Likewise, I dont see them being able to do that with Haunted Mansion. The movie was more of a comedy and I dont see that in the actual attraction.

When it comes to EPCOT, I am more of a traditionalist, but thats because I dont mind the educational aspect of the orriginal attractions. I do realize that our society is becoming more thrill oriented, short attention span, and not so concerned with the historical and scientific aspect of things. Disney has to change to be able to attract the highest number of guests.

I do think that Disney has basically stunk when it comes to animation. I think that the last really good animation production was The Lion King. I thought Brother Bear came close to being a traditional animation classic, and it may do so in years to come. I like the computer generated animation, but it seams that so much goes into the animation that alot is left out of the story. I would rather see old school animation with great story lines and sound tracks than really cool animation special effects and no story.
 
JustinTheClaw

JustinTheClaw

Member
Original Poster
I do share your feelings about Epcot. I've also come to the conclusion that thrill rides are a temporary fix to an on-going problem, and are subject to a variation of Moore's Law. To put it more specifically, within five years something will come out that is twice as thrilling and make the original obsolete. That's why I like Disney's approach to thrill rides. It's a matter of quality over quantity...But that's a discussion for another post.

I will say that I ride Spaceship Earth more than either Test Track or Mission: Space, because it's a classic, and I've only set foot in the Enchanted Tiki Room a handful of times since Iago and Zazu took over, whereas I've listened to my CD/MP3 of the entire original show dozens of times.

For the most part, however, I think Walt would have rather seen the Imagineers take chances on updated, or even replacing Attractions and fail occasionally than to let the whole place grow stagnant and predictable.
 
JustinTheClaw

JustinTheClaw

Member
Original Poster
On the other hand, I find I get a lot more out of Ellen's Energy Adventure than I remember retaining from the original Universe of Energy.
 
Hakunamatata

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
I think Walt would have been more forgiving with a failed attraction because for him, it was more about the magic and creativity and not about the bottom line. Most do not realize, but Walt wanted to go with EPCOT first when they started the Florida project, but his brother Roy talked him into putting a Magic Kingdom in Florida first to help generate income and get people to coming to the property first.

Would have definately been interesting to see what would have happened differently if Walt had been around for the opening.
 
Buford

Buford

New Member
JustinTheClaw said:
Do you know who said it?
Click to expand...
well, I believe it was originally said by D i c k Nunis, but I need to verify that..... if so, I heard it said by Dave Vermeulen, who was quoting him.
 
ReallyBigKid

ReallyBigKid

Member
Using the logic of plussing (is that a word) the ride to fit the movie....
We should now plus haunted mansion to match the movie.....

Muhahahaha, I want Eddie Murphy and a horrible storyline/movie to ruin one of my favorite attractions, c'mon imagineers give it to me.


But really, I think the Pirates refurb is a great thing. I used to be upset about JIYI, then I went back and watched the old ride on video (I know vids don't do a ride justice) but I don't think they ruined it with the update. Yeah Pooh, is a poor replacement for MTWR but hey, I never knew where Mr. Toad came from it was just an awesome ride. Now closing 20k to turn it into a field is just disgusting, especially seeing that DL is getting a whole new ride put into their lagoon, where we get Pooh's playland. Yes, I'm ready to grab a shovel and start digging the lagoon back out, I want my sub ride.
 
yazmin182

yazmin182

New Member
First of all this is a great thread.
I think I'm def. a bit of both and I'm sure many people feel like this. Ofcourse they need to keep changing and inventing to keep people interested. Especially when people go multiple times, they need something new to experience. But there are def. some classics out there that should just be left alone for us to enjoy time and time again. And for our kids to enjoy them too!

I am only a recently crazed Disney fan ever since my first time at Disneyworld in Jan 2006. I went to Disneyland about 10 times but mostly when I was a kid but Disneyworld is truly beyond anything anyone can imagine. After that, I started watching all those Disney classics over again.
Which brings up the fact that you're so right, there have been no really good Disney classics for a long time, Lion King, Aladdin, Pinocchio, etc. and some of those were the early 90's!

But back to the theme park, when I went in Januray, and I saw a ride called Pirates of the Caribbean I was really excited but when I went on, i realized its the same ride I love at disneyland and that it had nothing to do with the movie. this i have a problem with! They only renamed it to get more ppl to ride it b/c they think its part of the movie, but its not, its an old ride with a new name. Now,however, i hear they are adding a new feature to it that is from the movie, and i think this makes more sense. Now this i totally agree with but lets say for example the Haunted Mansion ride was called something else, and they renamed it "Haunted Mansion" just cuz of the movie, I dont think thats great at all cuz it really has nothing to do with it.
What do you think?
 
JustinTheClaw

JustinTheClaw

Member
Original Poster
yazmin182 said:
First of all this is a great thread.
I think I'm def. a bit of both and I'm sure many people feel like this. Ofcourse they need to keep changing and inventing to keep people interested. Especially when people go multiple times, they need something new to experience. But there are def. some classics out there that should just be left alone for us to enjoy time and time again. And for our kids to enjoy them too!

I am only a recently crazed Disney fan ever since my first time at Disneyworld in Jan 2006. I went to Disneyland about 10 times but mostly when I was a kid but Disneyworld is truly beyond anything anyone can imagine. After that, I started watching all those Disney classics over again.
Which brings up the fact that you're so right, there have been no really good Disney classics for a long time, Lion King, Aladdin, Pinocchio, etc. and some of those were the early 90's!

But back to the theme park, when I went in Januray, and I saw a ride called Pirates of the Caribbean I was really excited but when I went on, i realized its the same ride I love at disneyland and that it had nothing to do with the movie. this i have a problem with! They only renamed it to get more ppl to ride it b/c they think its part of the movie, but its not, its an old ride with a new name. Now,however, i hear they are adding a new feature to it that is from the movie, and i think this makes more sense. Now this i totally agree with but lets say for example the Haunted Mansion ride was called something else, and they renamed it "Haunted Mansion" just cuz of the movie, I dont think thats great at all cuz it really has nothing to do with it.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
I think you need to do your homework. Both Pirates of the Caribbean and The Haunted Mansion, in any of their incarnations (with the exception of Disneyland Paris' Phantom Manor) have always been known as those exact names, before and after the movies. Pirates of the Caribbean in WDW has been there since 1973 and has remained basically unchanged until its recent refurbishment which began in March of this year.
 
S

Sledge

Account Suspended
yazmin182 said:
They only renamed it to get more ppl to ride it b/c they think its part of the movie, but its not, its an old ride with a new name.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! STOP! Pet peeve. People that state Disney "facts" and are completely wrong. Stop. Stop. No. Never again. :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
yazmin182

yazmin182

New Member
Sorry!! I totally thought it had a different name! my bad
Please don't shun me from this website! I will leeearrrn!

Ok I got it! What confused me was it had the picture of the Pirates of the Caribbean movie when i went to go for the ride, and so i assumed they changed the name too. I will def. do my hw next time tho!
 
P

patricia27

Member
It's good to see changes as it attracts guests who might say "oh I`ve
done Disney there's nothing new".
However there are some special rides which I never want to lose--
Carousel of Progress.
Someone mentioned "Toad"-- well my son boycots "Pooh"
in support of "Toad".
Finally I'm pleased to see that there will be a milder version of
Mission Space as I was too scared to go on the main ride.
 

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