Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

We'll see.
At present there still is not enough to do in Orlando to occupy the average vacationing family for 5-6 days without spending time at Disney. While the Potter expansion to IOA certainly boosted their numbers, Disney's attendance rose during the same period, albeit at a much slower rate. In fact, Epcot and the Magic Kingdom's attendance rose about the same as IOA did since Potter opened, not proportionally, but in terms of total head. Sea World's attendance, meanwhile, has actually been dropping steadily since Potter opened, despite building several very nice new attractions. Now either that means that everyone has seen and is disgusted by Blackfish, or the Disney vs. Orlando turnaround you see coming just isn't happening.

Given that they're both going to be fairly limited, standalone attractions that can be done in an evening, I'll be surprised if the Eye and Skyscraper have a significant impact.
Can't wait to ride them, though.

I maintain my point- until Universal has enough offerings to present a complete alternative to Disney World, and not just enough to qualify as a 1-2 day diversion in a week-long vacation, their relationship to Disney World will continue to be mostly mutually beneficial.

The only real place Disney is getting stung by Universal is in merchandise dollars.

That is pretty false..

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

My opinion is competition is great for the fans. It's your money, spend it where you want to spend it.
Universal has an epic land in Potter. They did an excellent job in taking a risk and building out a huge themed world. It worked and fans have flocked in. Good for us, good for Universal and it's a great blue print for Disney to follow as they have with Avatar: Land of Pandora.

Comcast has now thrown down the gauntlet. You now must book a day at Universal if you are traveling to Florida...you would be crazy not to explore an amazingly themed area after spending so much money to get to Florida for a family vacation. You might never go back...why would you skip the latest and greatest in theme park entertainment. Heck, wear a Disney shirt if it makes you feel better.

It's like someone not wanting to see the big tent pole movie of the summer because it's distributed by a rival studio.

Don't worry Disney fans, hope is on the way and soon. (Soon for me is a 5 year window)
Disney has the ammunition to match the size and scope of Potter.

1.Star Wars has 4 movies in the top 20 all time domestic box office (adjusted for inflation)
It has 2 movies in the top 10 domestic of all time. World Wide box office wasn't that big a deal back in the 70's-80's.

2. Pirates of the Caribbean. Really surprised Disney hasn't stepped up and created a mini world around this ride turned franchise. 3 Movies in the top 22 of world wide grosses. (Harry Potter has 3 in the top 23)
Disney Should be building this somewhere in Orlando...(Animal Kingdom, DHS, MagicKingdom?)
Link: Pirates of the Caribbean: Battle of the Sunken Treasure ride, Treasure Cove land announced for Shanghai Disneyland

4. Marvel...can't be done in Orlando, but is a great idea for Disneyland.
5. Frozen...and all other Pixar/ recent Disney animated films. There is enough material to make a second animated land in DHS. Incredibles, Monster Inc., Frozen, Tangled. You get the idea.

6. Indiana Jones. How is he not in the Orlando area in the way of an d/e ticket style ride?

Disney has tons of material to make amazing areas themed to your favorite films. Truly remarkable they haven't been on their toes doing this.
That is until now. I do believe Disney is back in the saddle and being more creative with their theme park ideas. I have said I like what they have done with New Fantasyland. We are in for a treat with Avatar...you will love it. Trust me, and the night show will be fantastic at AK. Star Wars, have no idea what is on the table but I'm sure Disney wants to make this the Jewel of DHS. I believe we will be happy at Disney in 2020. Unreal...but that isn't that far away.

I believe without Universal getting Potter's rights in 2007. Disney isn't buying Marvel in 2009, isn't buying Lucasfilm, isn't creating Avatar in AK. Disney's hand has been forced. They have to start building bigger and better now. They will.

We the fans are in for a real treat in the coming years. Fun lands are going to be created for us to explore. So instead of going again to DHS after your Magic Kingdom visit. Stop by Universal for some new state of the art entertainment, again, where your Disney shirt if you have to. You have seen what's at DHS, you haven't seen what's at Universal.
We are in it for the latest and greatest rides, the thrill of something new. There isn't anything new at DHS. It's your money, go where you please but I'd rather explore the New Potter then ride Tower of Terror for the 22nd time.

We know Disney has amazing IPs at their disposal, but the question is when will we really see Disney step up and really push any of them with immersive lands, and not just one ride?
I'm truly hoping that Avatar is themed well like Cars Land in DL, TDS, or Ratatouille in DLP.
You seem to be really hopefully that Disney will step up soon. We will see...

 

[wdisney9000]

We'll see.
At present there still is not enough to do in Orlando to occupy the average vacationing family for 5-6 days without spending time at Disney. While the Potter expansion to IOA certainly boosted their numbers, Disney's attendance rose during the same period, albeit at a much slower rate. In fact, Epcot and the Magic Kingdom's attendance rose about the same as IOA did since Potter opened, not proportionally, but in terms of total head. Sea World's attendance, meanwhile, has actually been dropping steadily since Potter opened, despite building several very nice new attractions. Now either that means that everyone has seen and is disgusted by Blackfish, or the Disney vs. Orlando turnaround you see coming just isn't happening.

Given that they're both going to be fairly limited, standalone attractions that can be done in an evening, I'll be surprised if the Eye and Skyscraper have a significant impact.
Can't wait to ride them, though.

I maintain my point- until Universal has enough offerings to present a complete alternative to Disney World, and not just enough to qualify as a 1-2 day diversion in a week-long vacation, their relationship to Disney World will continue to be mostly mutually beneficial.

The only real place Disney is getting stung by Universal is in merchandise dollars.

Your not accounting for how many families just wont pay Disneys high prices. I know two families that visited Orlando in the last year, one family did 5 days, the other did 6 days. They each only visited Disney for one day. These are good friends of mine who both make very good money and could easily afford to visit Disney but just refused to pay the extreme high prices out of principle. They didnt visit Uni either but mostly because they both have very young children. One day at Disney was enough for them and the rest they lounged at the pool or hit city walk to shop and dine. My only point is that families can visit Orlando and find PLENTY to do without visiting WDW... or UNI for that matter.

 

[Bairstow]

Your not accounting for how many families just wont pay Disneys high prices. I know two families that visited Orlando in the last year, one family did 5 days, the other did 6 days. They each only visited Disney for one day. These are good friends of mine who both make very good money and could easily afford to visit Disney but just refused to pay the extreme high prices out of principle. They didnt visit Uni either but mostly because they both have very young children. One day at Disney was enough for them and the rest they lounged at the pool or hit city walk to shop and dine. My only point is that families can visit Orlando and find PLENTY to do without visiting WDW... or UNI for that matter.

Sure, you can.
Most Don't, at least not if we're talking about the 5-6+ day range.

As far as pricing, the only park in Orlando that is signficantly cheaper than the others is Sea World.
If anything, Universal will be more expensive than the others once the Alley is open.

 

[mahnamahna101]

We'll see.
At present there still is not enough to do in Orlando to occupy the average vacationing family for 5-6 days without spending time at Disney. While the Potter expansion to IOA certainly boosted their numbers, Disney's attendance rose during the same period, albeit at a much slower rate. In fact, Epcot and the Magic Kingdom's attendance rose about the same as IOA did since Potter opened, not proportionally, but in terms of total head. Sea World's attendance, meanwhile, has actually been dropping steadily since Potter opened, despite building several very nice new attractions. Now either that means that everyone has seen and is disgusted by Blackfish, or the Disney vs. Orlando turnaround you see coming just isn't happening.

Given that they're both going to be fairly limited, standalone attractions that can be done in an evening, I'll be surprised if the Eye and Skyscraper have a significant impact.
Can't wait to ride them, though.

I maintain my point- until Universal has enough offerings to present a complete alternative to Disney World, and not just enough to qualify as a 1-2 day diversion in a week-long vacation, their relationship to Disney World will continue to be mostly mutually beneficial.

The only real place Disney is getting stung by Universal is in merchandise dollars.

Day 1 - USF
Day 2 - IOA
Day 3 - Wet n Wild
Day 4 - SeaWorld
Day 5 - Aquatica
Day 6 - I Drive Live/CityWalk

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

And a new member has reached the ignore status... Am i the only one who thinks Thick is posting here again undera new "crafty" handle? Same arguments, almost word for word.

I thought Seascape was Jimmy? Just because I refuse to be amongest the cattle being pulled around by the nose ring doesn't make me someone else. Sorry I can think for myself.

 

[Bairstow]

Day 1 - USF
Day 2 - IOA
Day 3 - Wet n Wild
Day 4 - SeaWorld
Day 5 - Aquatica
Day 6 - I Drive Live/CityWalk

Well sure it's possible. I've done something similar to that myself.
My point is that the average family isn't going to carefully vacation around Disney.

The thing is, the numbers for Wet n Wild are stagnant and Sea World is losing attendance, so it's not as if Potter has changed the landscape in favor of non-Disney activities.

 

[wdisney9000]

We know Disney has amazing IP at their disposal, but the question is when will we really see Disney step up and really push any of them with immersive lands, and not just one ride?
I'm truly hoping that Avatar is themed well like Cars Land in DL, TDS, or Ratatouille in DLP.
You seem to be really hopefully that Disney will step up soon. We will see...

My only fear now is that Disney will sink so much into Avatar that SW Land will either get pushed back or scaled down. I think its obvious that SW is the way to go to compete with Potter. Avatar only has ONE movie so far and who knows what the other 2 will be like. Star wars has SIX movies to work with and is a PROVEN popular IP. Why they are not starting on SW Land RIGHT NOW is beyond me, aside from what 74 dropped last night about execs being worried about the demographic that Star Wars attracts. Thats the exact kind of moronic thinking that has held them back for years. Worried about the wrong thing. I watched Avatar once and that was enough. Ive watched Star Wars movies about ten times this year alone and will watch them again.

 

[flynnibus]

Any other proof or is Google all you have? If thats all I rest my case.

The link was to say I'm not your research dog. If you want those answers, do your own research. Your 'case' is not a counter to my statement you jumped on. So I'm not interested in retorting what you injected into the conversation.. because its not necessary to backup my statement on the importance of spending instead of attendance.

You can debate with yourself.

 

[GLaDOS]

Sure, you can.
Most Don't, at least not if we're talking about the 5-6+ day range.

As far as pricing, the only park in Orlando that is signficantly cheaper than the others is Sea World.
If anything, Universal will be more expensive than the others once the Alley is open.

If they were going to raise prices for the Diagon Alley opening, they would have done it before announcing an opening date, one would think

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

My only fear now is that Disney will sink so much into Avatar that SW Land will either get pushed back or scaled down. I think its obvious that SW is the way to go to compete with Potter. Avatar only has ONE movie so far and who knows what the other 2 will be like. Star wars has SIX movies to work with and is a PROVEN popular IP. Why they are not starting on SW Land RIGHT NOW is beyond me, aside from what 74 dropped last night about execs being worried about the demographic that Star Wars attracts. Thats the exact kind of moronic thinking that has held them back for years. Worried about the wrong thing. I watched Avatar once and that was enough. Ive watched Star Wars movies about ten times this year alone and will watch them again.

Yeah, I watched it once, couldn't finish the movie.
Personally, I would just love to see a truly immersive land anywhere in Disney World. I don't care for Avatar and I'm not super into Star Wars but as long as it is well done, I'd pay to see it. WDW doesn't have anything close to Cars Land, TDS, or Ratatouille!
Not going against 74 but if Disney was concerned about the SW demographic then why have SW weekends?

 

[FrankLapidus]

And a new member has reached the ignore status... Am i the only one who thinks Thick is posting here again under a new "crafty" handle? Same arguments, almost word for word.

You're definitely not the only one.

 

[Bairstow]

If they were going to raise prices for the Diagon Alley opening, they would have done it before announcing an opening date, one would think

I was referring to the near-necessity to purchase Universal's hopper option.

 

[GLaDOS]

I was referring to the near-necessity to purchase Universal's hopper option.

No one is forcing you to buy a one day park hopper.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Sure, you can.
Most Don't, at least not if we're talking about the 5-6+ day range.

As far as pricing, the only park in Orlando that is signficantly cheaper than the others is Sea World.
If anything, Universal will be more expensive than the others once the Alley is open.

That was the fastest I seen someone switch positions...
you just said there wasn't enough to do in Orlando for 5 - 6 days without disney.
I have a co-worker whose family rent houses in Orlando/Kissimmee for a week and never step foot in Disney or Universal.
Just because you don't know families who do that, doesn't mean that people don't do it.
I know DVC members who stay on Disney property but never go to the parks.

 

[flynnibus]

And has more parks which could dilute certain figures, like guest spending.

So in no uncertain terms there is really no way to tell where guests spend more in Florida. One would simply have to logically assume the park with the most guests wins? SEC filings be damned. I hope this puts to rest another silly unfounded crutch the Universal faithful desperately try to stand on. At least there is Potter.

One - you've made your own strawman with 'who spends more' - that wasn't the conversation.
Two - you might want to go back and do some basic deduction when you look at Universal's revenue growth after WWoHP opened.. and compare it to their attendance growth. Do the rough math... the gain in revenue didn't all come from gate clicks. Spending grew faster than attendance. And UNI's revenue gains outpaced WWoHP's total cost in under 2 years.

Which is exactly why UNI's plan for merch and food was copied for Carslands and Fantasyland.

The numbers that matter are the revenues - not the gate clicks. Clicks are scalers, not indicators of conversion or margins. That's the discussion. Catch up or get off the bus.

 

[tirian]

Has Disney ever put out, or licensed a model kit for the Nautilus? I don't remember one. I'd buy one now if they did. As for non Disney merch, didn't Disneyland have a Wonderbra store on Main St. USA?

Yes, the bra store existed.

I don't think they ever sold model kits, but that's a great idea. Of course, the prices would have to be reasonable.

 

[Bairstow]

No one is forcing you to buy a one day park hopper.

No, but... c'mon.
Are you going to skip out on the Hogwarts Express just to save a couple bucks?

 

[FrankLapidus]

One - you've made your own strawman with 'who spends more' - that wasn't the conversation.
Two - you might want to go back and do some basic deduction when you look at Universal's revenue growth after WWoHP opened.. and compare it to their attendance growth. Do the rough math... the gain in revenue didn't all come from gate clicks. Spending grew faster than attendance. And UNI's revenue gains outpaced WWoHP's total cost in under 2 years.

Which is exactly why UNI's plan for merch and food was copied for Carslands and Fantasyland.

The numbers that matter are the revenues - not the gate clicks. Clicks are scalers, not indicators of conversion or margins. That's the discussion. Catch up or get off the bus.

As much as I enjoy your posts I don't know why you're bothering in this instance, you're banging your head repeatedly against a very sturdy brick wall.

 

[Claretstevo]

Being from the UK I don't get all bitterness between Disney and Universal.

We come over for three weeks and spend two at Disney and one week at Universal. We love all the parks and could spend any amount of time at both.

I don't understand the people who say a family could not spent many days at uni? I will spend 7 days just between the main two uni parks.