News Disney plans to include a black Santa Claus at Walt Disney World this year as the company continues its diversity and inclusion program

[Vegas Disney Fan]

After the last 28 pages of (mostly polite) back and forth I’m starting to think Disneys is taking the wrong approach with this one.

Adding Tiana as a Disney Princess is a perfect example of inclusion, they not only made Princesses more diverse but did it through a unique story that people love… what they’re doing with Santa feels lazy, rather than going through the process of creating a new, unique, black Christmas character they just took a traditionally white character and made them black. No creativity involved, no work involved, doesn’t really change anything … just the status quo but with a different colored face.

Similar to how previous movies with black Princesses, Cinderella for example, didn’t change the mainstream perception of Princesses as white, i don’t think this will have a lasting impression either. it wasn’t until Tiana that the perception of what a Disney Princess was was changed, and that was because she was her own person rather than simply a black version of a previously white princess. I think this will be the same, it won’t change the idea of Santa as a old jolly white man, most people will simply see this as a black version of a jolly old white man.

Seems like a missed opportunity to create something special and lasting.

 

[celluloid]

It doesn’t have to be a case of either/or. There’s great power, too, in reimagine existing characters.

Just to clarify as your post could make it sound like such. Magenta did not state an "instead" nor an "either or". The poster said best achieved. I would agree. Is the color of someone's skin changing really reimagination? If all you did was change the color of the skin, I don't think that is a reimagined character as the color of the skin never seems to be a defining trait. After all, is not that the point? I think that is just more open casting. Which is good, but not reimagining a character.


To sum it up again...

If you "Plan" on being inclusive, you are not really being inclusive. It means you are hoping it comes across that way because you know your company at an executive decision level is not.

 

[LittleBuford]

If you "Plan" on being inclusive, you are not really being inclusive.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Last night, I watched The Jungle Cruise for the first time and was tickled pink (no pun intended) when Lily’s brother revealed himself to be gay. This detail surely didn’t come about spontaneously; it was planned to be inclusive. And, on me at least, it worked.

It seems to me that the majority of people in this thread who have any issue with black Santa are white. They should stop to consider why that is.

 

[RobWDW1971]

You're really bad at debate. So many straw men it's dizzying.

Except I'm not debating. I'm simply trying to clarify a person's position.

I've clarified mine - I have no issue, without exception, of colorblind casting of historical figures.

If the poster is unwilling to clarify their position, that is fine with me, but I'm not debating a point here, just asking for clarity of what seems to be conflicting points of view.

Their reluctance to clarify their position is telling, however.

 

[celluloid]

I have to respectfully disagree.

Last night, I watched The Jungle Cruise for the first time and was tickled pink (no pun intended) when Lily’s brother revealed himself to be gay. This detail surely didn’t come about spontaneously; it was planned to be inclusive. And, on me at least, it worked.

It seems to me that the majority of people in this thread who have any issue with black Santa are white. They should stop to consider why that is.

Well a movie typically does have a script if it hopes to be funny. There are also adlibs but it was known that the character was to be a homosexual while the movie was in production. That was one of the funnier parts in the way the joke was done to Naïve Dwayne the Rock Johnson, and the time period made his obliviousness funny and work with the interests laying elsewhere line. I think you are confusing representation with inclusiveness as there is bleed over and even companies, like this move by Disney seem to be confused by the differences.

Interesting to the example your brought up. There was also backlash when casting originally had the idea that the homosexual character would not be played by an actual homosexual. So that is not without its own struggles and splitting the audience even more. The representation and inclusiveness concept clashes into different things sometimes which is interesting because the entire point of an actor is that they should be able to play different traits than the ones they actually have. It never bothers me, or really does not seem to bother others when Neil Patrick Harris played a deplorable but deep down well meaning womanizer on How I Met Your Mother. People sure are funny.

 

[BuddyThomas]

You know, it's possible for people to have a different opinion without them being a racist, homophobe, or other slurs hurled by insecure people...

You know, it’s possible for people to recognize thinly veiled racism, homophobia, and not veiled at all muppetphobia. That’s all.

 

[LittleBuford]

Well a movie typically does have a script if it hopes to be funny. There are also adlibs but it was known that the character was to be a homosexual while the movie was in production. That was one of the funnier parts in the way the joke was done to Naïve Dwayne the Rock Johnson, and the time period made his obliviousness funny and work with the interests laying elsewhere line. I think you are confusing representation with inclusiveness as there is bleed over and even companies, like this move by Disney seem to be confused by the differences.

Interesting to the example your brought up. There was also backlash when casting originally had the idea that the homosexual character would not be played by an actual homosexual. So that is not without its own struggles and splitting the audience even more. The representation and inclusiveness concept clashes into different things sometimes which is interesting because the entire point of an actor is that they should be able to play different traits than the ones they actually have. It never bothers me, or really does not seem to bother others when Neil Patrick Harris played a deplorable but deep down well meaning womanizer on How I Met Your Mother. People sure are funny.

We have completely different readings of the scene. Why it touched me so is that Frank (played by Dwayne Johnson) fully understood what McGregor was saying and even saluted him for it. He was in no way oblivious.

For what it’s worth, this homosexual prefers the label “gay”.

 

[celluloid]

For what it’s worth, this homosexual prefers the label “gay”.

Noted. I know at one time the word's meaning included "showy" as well as joyful and cheerful in etymology so I avoid it as I don't want someone to automatically think of effete males or flamboyance. Homosexuality seems to come with less connotations. No offense was intended.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It doesn’t have to be a case of either/or. There’s great power, too, in reimagining existing characters.

Especially when done, as in Hamilton, as commentary/satire on the original source.

 

[celluloid]

Especially when done, as in Hamilton, as commentary/satire on the original source.

Indeed. That was done with more than just skin color though. There were many clever uses of musical differences, nuances and character changes.

 

[Magenta Panther]

You know, it’s possible for people to recognize thinly veiled racism, homophobia, and not veiled at all muppetphobia. That’s all.

You know, it's impossible to take someone seriously who puts a disinterested dislike for the Muppets on the same level as homophobia and racism. That's all.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I have to respectfully disagree.

Last night, I watched The Jungle Cruise for the first time and was tickled pink (no pun intended) when Lily’s brother revealed himself to be gay. This detail surely didn’t come about spontaneously; it was planned to be inclusive. And, on me at least, it worked.

It seems to me that the majority of people in this thread who have any issue with black Santa are white. They should stop to consider why that is.

Agreed. As a parent of a child with a disability, I personally witness on a daily basis the need for planning and intentionality in inclusion.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Indeed. That was done with more than just skin color though. There were many clever uses of musical differences, nuances and character changes.

Yes, agreed, it went well beyond the cast.

 

[celluloid]

Yes, agreed, it went well beyond the cast.

My favorite is the fact that King George's music was in the style of 60s British Invasion tunes.

 

[Quinnmac000]

Well, and then there's folklore. John Henry is a mythical black American folkhero. But if he were played on film or elsewhere by a white man, that'd be cultural appropriation, at the very least...funny how "cultural appropriation" is never applied when a white character is played by a POC...as if white people don't have their own culture (many cultures, actually), and their own white heroes, and aren't necessarily being racist if they prefer that their white heroes be portrayed as originally conceived...

I will bite on this one.

There was a key statement you made that I bolded. The erasure of that cultural identity came from the desire to have everyone assimilate thus taking the ownership from it being white culture to American culture. When you strip someone and have people adapt to your culture, you can't get mad when it evolves and changes from the original roots.

When it comes down to content that is consumed majority of it is done by white America and there is somewhat a cultural line in how media is consumed. Certain shows that were popularity with white communities were not popular with POCs (Seinfeld, Everybody loves Raymond) whereas some shows that were popular with POCs were not popular with white people (Moesha, Living Single).

Usually taking a fictional role that is white and giving it to someone of a different ethnicity is done to expand the audience and reach communities who were not attracted to it in the beginning. Another reason is to showcase a new side of a story that may not be understood. King George is the only white role in Hamilton whose actions were oppressive to those in the US which adds to the point of the POCs rising up to the tyranny. So in that sense, Hamilton being a POC cast makes sense.

Everyone forgets Robert Downey Jr got zero complaints for wearing Black face because they did it in a way that was well done and made sense. Similarly a white person can play a traditionally black role if it is done in a proper way without it being seen as cultural appropriation.

 

[Cliff]

Wow some are still triggered Black Santa is coming to WDW to greet all guests and a comment referring to a white black panther. Really?

I'm 10000% OK with Black Santa. In fact, I welcome it just for the purpose of studying how people react to it. The concept is quite facinating to watch from BOTH sides.

"Triggers"....woah, not me. I have very few anxieties in this world and I'm pretty immune to the whole "trigger" concept thar is gaining popularity. I dont get the whole "trigger" thing. I dunno,....maybe I'm just too relaxed about life and I need a few good underlying anxiety topics to hide in my brain. Maybe then I can learn how to have these "triggers" that people are supposed to have.

 

[BuddyThomas]

You know, it's impossible to take someone seriously who puts a disinterested dislike for the Muppets on the same level as homophobia and racism. That's all.

I was not equating the two and you know it but thanks again for never failing to disappoint in your responses.

 

[celluloid]

Similarly a white person can play a traditionally black role if it is done in a proper way without it being seen as cultural appropriation.

I enjoyed reading your response.

Also, in Hamilton, your specific notes there was so we could all see how the colonists felt and were treated by The British of the time as it is easy to forget that colonists were seen as a race. Colonists as a whole were an oppressed group of people.

I don't doubt that your last point I quoted could happen, but I can't think of a specific example of a main character. Could you share one?

 

[Quinnmac000]

I enjoyed reading your response.

Also, in Hamilton, your specific notes there was so we could all see how the colonists felt and were treated by The British of the time as it is easy to forget that colonists were seen as a race. Colonists as a whole were an oppressed group of people.

I don't doubt that your last point I quoted could happen, but I can't think of a specific example. Could you share one?

One that could work off the top of my head would be Papa Legba.

Papa Legba is a deity in what is commonly known in vondou known in America as Voodoo as well as Santeria who has the ability to speak all languages and says where you get to go. Because he is a trickster in some aspects, I don't think it is a necessity for him to be black as since he is also considered the god of understanding human nature...it could be a unique interpretation to see.

 

[celluloid]

One that could work off the top of my head would be Papa Legba.

Papa Legba is a deity in what is commonly known in vondou known in America as Voodoo as well as Santeria who has the ability to speak all languages and says where you get to go. Because he is a trickster in some aspects, I don't think it is a necessity for him to be black as since he is also considered the god of understanding human nature...it could be a unique interpretation to see.

I guess I should have been more specific. I mean one where that has been done with a main character. I can't think of a case where that happened without backlash.