Disney Parks misconceptions

[Tim_4]

I don't post around here very much but I get annoyed with a lot of the posters who think they know what they're talking about but really have no clue. Here are a few misconceptions that I'd like to clear up. I'm sure this well get buried but how do we change hearts and minds if we don't try?

1) "Team Disney Orlando" is a building, not a group of people. You can see it on your right hand side when driving past Downtown Disney, directly opposite the AMC theater.

2) Major decisions about construction and new projects are made almost exclusively in California, not Orlando.

3) The Parks and Resorts segment is spending more on capital (new stuff) than it has in decades. People who won't be satisfied with anything short of Beastly Kingdom or a 5th gate are delusional. Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

4) Projects that get shut down are usually because WDI can't stay on budget. It's easy to look at Joe Rohde as a rock star and the "bean counters" as the bad guys, but if WDI has a $1,000,000 budget for concept design and they spend $10,000,000 and still can't get the technology for a Monsters door coaster to work, there's no chance that project is getting the green light.

 

[unkadug]

Well, you lost my attention on number one! :lol:

Nice try though. :wave:

 

[menamechris]

1) "Team Disney Orlando" is a building, not a group of people. You can see it on your right hand side when driving past Downtown Disney, directly opposite the AMC theater.

2) Major decisions about construction and new projects are made almost exclusively in California, not Orlando.

3) The Parks and Resorts segment is spending more on capital (new stuff) than it has in decades. People who won't be satisfied with anything short of Beastly Kingdom or a 5th gate are delusional. Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

4) Projects that get shut down are usually because WDI can't stay on budget. It's easy to look at Joe Rohde as a rock star and the "bean counters" as the bad guys, but if WDI has a $1,000,000 budget for concept design and they spend $10,000,000 and still can't get the technology for a Monsters door coaster to work, there's no chance that project is getting the green light.

1) TDO is a term used internally in Orlando. It represents "the suits" collectively as you described. I guess kinda like politically people refer to "Washington" or "DC". They aren't actually talking about geography....

2) Umm....I think you mean that the only projects that come to fruition typically are FORCED through by CA. Doesn't mean they couldn't take on various projects if they were so motivated.

3) They are spending a lot of money- but let's not forget that, oh, a billion dollars of that is correcting a screw up. Does that really count? As far as the cruise ships, DVCs, etc., those are for their own selfish reasons. Don't think for a second that if the ROI wasn't practically immediate we would be seeing those either. Just sayin...

4) Interesting observation. I don't agree with you though, because WDW hasn't been interesting in plussing or maintaining many of their own show standards for a number of years. Quite frankly, they just don't like spending money. Not spending money means bigger bonuses at the end of the year and better numbers for shareholders.....

 

[cowanfamily]

You had me at "Disney", you lost me at "misconceptions"!

 

[Lee]

1) "Team Disney Orlando" is a building, not a group of people. You can see it on your right hand side when driving past Downtown Disney, directly opposite the AMC theater.

Technically true, though as Menamechris stated, it is also used as a generic term to refer to the power structure in Orlando. Same way TDA is used in Anaheim.

2) Major decisions about construction and new projects are made almost exclusively in California, not Orlando.

Yes and no. Some projects are spearheaded out of Burbank, sure.
Some projects are also shot down by execs in Orlando who have other ideas for how to use their budgets. (Hows that new fireworks show coming, Phil?)

3) The Parks and Resorts segment is spending more on capital (new stuff) than it has in decades. People who won't be satisfied with anything short of Beastly Kingdom or a 5th gate are delusional. Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

Also true. They are spending a ton, as they should be.
The old adage about having to spend money to make money still holds true.
However, an argument could be made that they aren't spending it in the right way.
Which brings us to...

4) Projects that get shut down are usually because WDI can't stay on budget. It's easy to look at Joe Rohde as a rock star and the "bean counters" as the bad guys, but if WDI has a $1,000,000 budget for concept design and they spend $10,000,000 and still can't get the technology for a Monsters door coaster to work, there's no chance that project is getting the green light.

True, to a point.
WDI has money-wasting down to a science for sure. But sometimes the bean-counters do wind up with blood on their hands. (Hello, Space Mountain!)

I don't know if those figures for the Monsters ride are completely accurate, but I can believe they aren't too far off. WDI spent a lot of time and money working with Barton Mallow on that concept and it went nowhere (unless it ends up in Shanghai).

I could segue into how WDI needs to convert to a Uni Creative business model, but I'll leave that for later.







dy wastes more money than WDI looking to bill hours.

WWoHP cost less than FLE. Which project would best illustrate a company geting the most "bang for their buck".

Radiator Springs Racers' budget is drawing frighteningly close to $400mil. That should never happen.

The example about the Monsters ride is a good example. WDI blows a considerable amount working with Barton Mallow on the thing and it ends up going nowhere. Should it have? Yes, DHS needs a new ride. But at any cost?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

My vacation money isn't spend on a six month tour of two cruise ships and DCA and Hawaii and Orlando. I think you'll find it commonly isn't.

People visit one of these options. So the only investments of relevance are the ones in Orlando, this being a WDW site.
So no, if I pay $20000 for a holiday in Orlando, and the kids ask what's new, I do not reply by pointing out to them that the other kids are enjoying cool new stuff ten thousand miles away. Uh-uh. I respond by taking them an extra day to Universal to check out the exciting new stuff there.

 

[ParentsOf4]

3) The Parks and Resorts segment is spending more on capital (new stuff) than it has in decades. People who won't be satisfied with anything short of Beastly Kingdom or a 5th gate are delusional. Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

I respect most of your points but am not sure I agree with this one. If I correctly understand Disney's Annual Report, most of the money being investigated is at other locations, not WDW. As others have pointed out, money spent at other destinations has no impact on making WDW a more enjoyable experience.

WDW opened 4 major theme parks from 1971 to 1998, as well as 3 water parks, DQ, and DTD. It's now been 14 years since WDW's last major expansion, by far the longest period WDW has gone without a major expansion. (I appreciate FLE and Avatarland but IMHO these do not represent major expansions.)

 

[captainkidd]

Way to make friends.

 

[powlessfamily4]

I get so tired of reading this garbage. Can you please just try to enjoy WDW and not constantly pick it apart??

 

[Sans Souci]

I get so tired of reading this garbage. Can you please just try to enjoy WDW and not constantly pick it apart??

Instead of telling people how or what they should post, closing a thread you don't like and departing without comment is always possible.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I went over today to the Trilobyte Collectors Site and posted there that I find trilobytes boring and that I don't want to read about them.

 

[rsoxguy]

I like trilobites, but my problem with them is that they always get stuck between my teeth.

 

[G00fyDad]

There's 15 minutes of my time I won't be getting back.

 

[devoy1701]

I don't post around here very much but I get annoyed with a lot of the posters who think they know what they're talking about but really have no clue. Here are a few misconceptions that I'd like to clear up. I'm sure this well get buried but how do we change hearts and minds if we don't try?

1) "Team Disney Orlando" is a building, not a group of people. You can see it on your right hand side when driving past Downtown Disney, directly opposite the AMC theater.

2) Major decisions about construction and new projects are made almost exclusively in California, not Orlando.

3) The Parks and Resorts segment is spending more on capital (new stuff) than it has in decades. People who won't be satisfied with anything short of Beastly Kingdom or a 5th gate are delusional. Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

4) Projects that get shut down are usually because WDI can't stay on budget. It's easy to look at Joe Rohde as a rock star and the "bean counters" as the bad guys, but if WDI has a $1,000,000 budget for concept design and they spend $10,000,000 and still can't get the technology for a Monsters door coaster to work, there's no chance that project is getting the green light.

I stand corrected...




Moving along...

 

[MichWolv]

I don't post around here very much but I get annoyed with a lot of the posters who think they know what they're talking about but really have no clue. Here are a few misconceptions that I'd like to clear up. I'm sure this well get buried but how do we change hearts and minds if we don't try?

1) "Team Disney Orlando" is a building, not a group of people. You can see it on your right hand side when driving past Downtown Disney, directly opposite the AMC theater.

2) Major decisions about construction and new projects are made almost exclusively in California, not Orlando.

3) The Parks and Resorts segment is spending more on capital (new stuff) than it has in decades. People who won't be satisfied with anything short of Beastly Kingdom or a 5th gate are delusional. Two new cruise ships, major expansions at DCA and Magic Kingdom, a resort in Hawai'i, and many other active projects get overlooked by Little Johnny Fanboy who's gonna throw a fit until he gets Tron in Tomorrowland.

4) Projects that get shut down are usually because WDI can't stay on budget. It's easy to look at Joe Rohde as a rock star and the "bean counters" as the bad guys, but if WDI has a $1,000,000 budget for concept design and they spend $10,000,000 and still can't get the technology for a Monsters door coaster to work, there's no chance that project is getting the green light.

Actually I don't think we are "misconceived" on any of those points. My points in response:

1) Of course we know that. Ever watch the news and hear of a decision made by "The Pentagon" or that word has come from "The White House". Boy those reporters are dumb, saying that a building is making a decision. Of course, you know that what the reporter is saying is that the people who work in the Pentagon made the decision, or that the President's staff has issued something. Same thing applies when we toss around TDO.

2) I don't think anybody ever doubted this. Are you saying the folks in Orlando don't even weigh in on what they think of plans, or that they have no influence in the matter at all. I'd be surprised were that the case.

3) Absolutely. And that's obvious. More new P&R stuff opening around the world all the time. But we tend to focus around here on spending at WDW, which, I would suggest, has not grown consistent with overall P&R spending. Indeed, the big P&R stuff the past few years, other than FLE and DVC, has been everywhere but WDW. P&R is spending a lot, but they aren't spending it at WDW, and I think it's fair to say that most of us wish that WDW spending would be more on the parks vs. the resorts.

4) Perhaps there is a difference here. I'd be surprised if the majority of the projects that get shut down ever even get to the place where WDI has a chance to overrun a budget. Then again, that is as it is in any company, and so not a surprise.

 

[Tim_4]

1) TDO is a term used internally in Orlando.

That just isn't true. I assume your info is from Front Line CMs or CPs but it's just plain false.

2) Umm....I think you mean that the only projects that come to fruition typically are FORCED through by CA. Doesn't mean they couldn't take on various projects if they were so motivated.

Also incorrect. That's just not how it works.

I don't know if those figures for the Monsters ride are completely accurate, but I can believe they aren't too far off. WDI spent a lot of time and money working with Barton Mallow on that concept and it went nowhere (unless it ends up in Shanghai).







dy wastes more money than WDI looking to bill hours.

WWoHP cost less than FLE. Which project would best illustrate a company geting the most "bang for their buck."

The Monsters numbers were NOT accurate but the point on that bit remains. I'm cool with people saying "they spend on the wrong stuff" but the prevailing opinion that they're not investing in the Segment is incorrect.

I respect most of your points but am not sure I agree with this one. If I correctly understand Disney's Annual Report, most of the money being investigated is at other locations, not WDW. As others have pointed out, money spent at other destinations has no impact on making WDW a more enjoyable experience.

You're reading the numbers correctly but misunderstanding the model. The money spent ultimately comes out of the same coffers so dollars spent on "A" means those dollars can't be spent on B. We can have the A vs B debate all day long but WDW can't just go around spending money without the permission of Segment and Corporate leadership.

I intended to say more but this forum is rough on a smartphone. My main point is that I think people should give TWDC a break and realize that the investments are being made for long term growth and guest enjoyment.

 

[wm49rs]

I intended to say more but this forum is rough on a smartphone. My main point is that I think people should give TWDC a break and realize that the investments are being made for long term growth and guest enjoyment.

Well, insulting and being condescending to them is certainly the best way to go about that. Original, to boot.....

 

[devoy1701]

That just isn't true. I assume your info is from Front Line CMs or CPs but it's just plain false.



Also incorrect. That's just not how it works.



The Monsters numbers were NOT accurate but the point on that bit remains. I'm cool with people saying "they spend on the wrong stuff" but the prevailing opinion that they're not investing in the Segment is incorrect.



You're reading the numbers correctly but misunderstanding the model. The money spent ultimately comes out of the same coffers so dollars spent on "A" means those dollars can't be spent on B. We can have the A vs B debate all day long but WDW can't just go around spending money without the permission of Segment and Corporate leadership.

I intended to say more but this forum is rough on a smartphone. My main point is that I think people should give TWDC a break and realize that the investments are being made for long term growth and guest enjoyment.

You seem to be forgetting that WDW has it's own operating budget as well that TDO can decide to use for expansions/refurbs, etc...they don't just have to wait for the go-ahead or idea to come from Burbank.

see what I did there?

 

[Lee]

My main point is that I think people should give TWDC a break and realize that the investments are being made for long term growth and guest enjoyment.

That should make for an interesting debate.

 

[Tim_4]

You seem to be forgetting that WDW has it's own operating budget as well that TDO can decide to use for expansions/refurbs, etc...they don't just have to wait for the go-ahead or idea to come from Burbank.

see what I did there?

That belief is the heart of the misconception. Operating budgets and Capital planning are completely unrelated. They're two entirely independent pots of money that don't get mixed. I'm not sure the exact cutoff but any project over a certain amount needs to be approved by Iger and the Board.

WDI projects are also independent of Facilities projects. WDW is free to replace curtains, paint ride vehicles, etc pretty much on their own, but anything expansion related comes from above. I'm sure Lee can confirm this since he's on the short list of people who are believed around here.