News Disney Park Pass System announced for Walt Disney World theme park reservations

[Goofyernmost]

Well, you've lost @Sirwalterraleigh with that last sentence.

There is no arguing with the fact that Disney is way more expensive than it used to be. However, there are over 50 million people who visit Walt Disney World each year and it is still the most popular vacation resort in the world. Either it's still more affordable overall than folks here like to admit or there are way more rich people around than I thought.

It's not more popular in the seeable future. Right now the wealthy or those willing to get deeply in debt are going. But the overall sustainable business is gone. I went to WDW 48 times in 35 years. I even brought or convinced others to go. Now I am priced out just when I was able to visit anytime the mood struck me. Believe me the wealthy will quickly find some other toy to send their money on and the indebted will run out of credit. The business model sucks. The management have their golden parachutes and just plain don't give a damn.

 

[Touchdown]

This whole economy is being driven by the top 20% of income or net worth (>130k salary, >500k net worth) those are the only people spending discretionary right now due to the increasing cost of basic goods and stagnant wages. The only thing that hasn’t stagnated is the stock market which of course, these people have significant holdings (if you had 500k invested in a S&P index fund with your dividends factored in you’ve made $73,650 this year or almost half the salary needed to be in the top 20) or enough room to spend on non essentials (not saving properly for retirement can be viewed as future debt.) When the stock market falters again (and it will because it always falters at least for a little while) these people will feel differently.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I stayed in the Waldorf Astoria (or the Marriott Marquis, or the New Yorker, or any of a dozen higher-end hotels) in NYC even 15 years ago, for less than some people pay for moderates today. Never mind deluxes.

Who cares what the price of those places were 15 years ago?

The Marriot Marquis in NY right now is about $650-$700 per night, at normal times, excluding special events or the insane Christmas/NYE prices.

The Alqonquin in NY is $850 per night.

The various Marriots in Boston, range from $700--800 per night. You aren't finding anything like you are describing for less than moderate Disney prices, unless you are using a time machine.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Probably a decent time to remind - The attendance figures each year are unique taps at the entrance to one of the four theme parks. There aren't 50 million unique visitors to WDW every year.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Dollar for dollar…”moderates”
Have always been the least bang for your buck…

Kinda depends on what you want - I’ll take Port Orleans Riverside over most of the deluxe properties any day.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Kinda depends on what you want - I’ll take Port Orleans Riverside over most of the deluxe properties any day.

Hmmmm…

I hear that alot. I think it’s a bit more complicated.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Hmmmm…

I hear that alot. I think it’s a bit more complicated.

Ok…. What makes it more complicated?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ok…. What makes it more complicated?

It’s usually tied into a dvc discussion why its “smart” to have missed that but dump $5000 a year on port Orleans or Caribbean…

That’s kinda transference. The math was never mathing.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It’s usually tied into a dvc discussion why its “smart” to have missed that but dump $5000 a year on port Orleans or Caribbean…

That’s kinda transference. The math was never mathing.

This wasn’t a discussion about DVC.

But tell me… does $5k a year get you 20+ nights at DVC?

 

[Biff215]

People borrowing to pay for vacations is not exactly a new phenomenon though. I always remember a scene from an I Love Lucy episode -- "Visitor from Italy" to be specific, which originally aired in 1956. The dialogue goes:

MARIO: No, no, I'm sorry. Borrowing is no way to start a vacation in America.
LUCY: Well, why not? That's the way Americans always start their vacations.

Definitely not new, but more common than ever and at a much higher amount. Plus “borrowing” looked much different in previous generations. Today it means interest rates of 20%+ on a credit card that may never get paid off.

 

[Biff215]

Anyone paying rack rate for any Disney resort is misguided. It’s not much different than healthcare or college (both also broken). Price everything high and hope to get the highest percentage of that. No resort is worth the rates that Disney prices their deluxe resorts at, and they know it. There’s just no turning back now (in my best HM voice).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This wasn’t a discussion about DVC.

But tell me… does $5k a year get you 20+ nights at DVC?

Prorated for an upfront purchase amount That was a good deal (prior to 2010 at least) and with the dues factored in?…it can get you quite a lot.

But unfortunately 20 nights at port turn into a pumpkin after the nights are over. There is no longterm value/benefit that offsets the normal inflation factors. You start over again next year and all subsequent years.
Dvc is far from perfect…but you do get a tad more return in the big picture. Not even factoring that beach club is better than Dixie landings…it just is. Not that either are bad…but the prices were originally set as a reflection of access and quality of amenity…even if they have tried to say that doesn’t matter for 20 years.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Anyone paying rack rate for any Disney resort is misguided. It’s not much different than healthcare or college (both also broken). Price everything high and hope to get the highest percentage of that. No resort is worth the rates that Disney prices their deluxe resorts at, and they know it. There’s just no turning back now (in my best HM voice).

I think we all know this…

Or at least we all know this and only some admit it.

Truth is the “discount” rates are above the line as well…they just don’t advertise it. Kohls pricing at its finest

 

[Touchdown]

You get locked into doing the same thing year after year, have arbitrary caps on when and where you can book, get reduced service, and still have to pay dues and the opportunity cost of your purchase price. It also has an expiration date, it’s just 20-30 years. Vacations are not investments I don’t expect my movie ticket to give me anything else once the credits roll, why should my hotel stay be any different.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Anyone paying rack rate for any Disney resort is misguided. It’s not much different than healthcare or college (both also broken). Price everything high and hope to get the highest percentage of that. No resort is worth the rates that Disney prices their deluxe resorts at, and they know it. There’s just no turning back now (in my best HM voice).

Well folks pay rack rate when the get free dining.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Definitely not new, but more common than ever and at a much higher amount. Plus “borrowing” looked much different in previous generations. Today it means interest rates of 20%+ on a credit card that may never get paid off.

Los Estados unidos is more leveraged than you can imagine at this point.

It’s not the concept of leverage that’s a problem…is the scale.

 

[Biff215]

Well folks pay rack rate when the get free dining.

Which proves what a terrible value it is. Disney loves that promotion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well folks pay rack rate when the get free dining.

That whole dining plan isn’t really a “thing” anymore.

The biggest positive of Covid is it ended That era…which almost destroyed the place but unfortunately still caused longterm damage

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You get locked into doing the same thing year after year, have arbitrary caps on when and where you can book, get reduced service, and still have to pay dues and the opportunity cost of your purchase price. It also has an expiration date, it’s just 20-30 years. Vacations are not investments I don’t expect my movie ticket to give me anything else once the credits roll, why should my hotel stay be any different.

Didn’t buy it in like 1999, did you?

That’s rhetorical…the “splaining” kinda locks it in

 

[Touchdown]

Didn’t buy it in like 1999, did you?

That’s rhetorical…the “splaining” kinda locks it in

I was 16 years old so no. It’s still not an investment, money invested in the S&P in 1999, despite the dotcom and great recession crashes gained 812%, if you spent 25k on your purchase price you already lost 203k, and that’s before you factor in your dues payments. You willingly traded your free cash to Disney up front to get a discounted room (provided you pay dues every year) for some extra hassle. It works for some, but don’t ever think it’s an investment.