Disney not subject to Anaheim’s ‘living wage’ ballot measure, judge rules - OCR/SCNG

[flynnibus]

I don't really get this idea that is thrown around that Millenials and Gen Z kids are lazy

Are you in a position where you hire people?
Or manage groups of people of that age group?

if you were… you’d understand.

and if you are complaining about pay… don’t show up carrying a $6 cup of coffee

understand that the generation labels may not apply to you… prove it to thise around you by action. But that doesn’t mean the stereotypes aren’t based on anything real… or that there aren’t large issues with so many of that age group.

like i said earlier in the thread… the attitude of the majority of these kids is untenable

 

[mickEblu]

when i went through that i was commuting 1.5hrs each way and had a newborn at home. We rented a townhouse for a year after having the baby. The drive sucked, i woukd stay late at work just trying go minimize it etc. we didn’t live there for friends, closest family was 90mins away.
We dropped the wife’s work that required us to be both in VA and Baltimore (wife commuted an hour in the opposite direction i did) and moved to what was at the time… the edge of the earth.

No friends, family was now over 2hrs away, but it was closer to my work and we could afford a townhouse. You pickup, start new, and make something. Lived in that house for almost 10yrs, made great friends, had more kids, the community and area grew and developed, and liked it so much we held out to buy a sfh in the same neighborhood.

now all my kids have grown up, my closest family is still 2+hrs away, but I’ve now lived in this area longer than what I consider’where i am from’.

life is about choices and sacrifices to push to what you want, or coping with what you are dealt. I’ve been lucky that we haven’t had catastrophic setbacks in my life. But if we never made changes- we’d never benefit from them either. It was hard spending over 60% of my takehome right on a mortgage with a toddler and a second kid on the way. But i pressed to succeed and eventually my earnings grew and it got easier.

i also took a job that was a hourly part time role, fought to full time, multiple promotions, created new roles, and turned it into a 20+ year career. While others around me are still doing the same job they did 10+ years ago.

progress doesn’t come by default. Nk matter how empathetic arguments people make about where peopke ‘should be’… unless we are in a commune everyone doesn’t move forward the same…. And certainly not by just existing

Maybe every few generations, one generation has to sacrifice. My grandparents came here in the 70s from other countries and left everything including their entire families. For that sacrifice however they were blessed with a land of great opportunity. Their kids (my parents, uncles) generation was the “lucky” generation that was easily able to live and purchase homes in the city they grew up in. It seems like I’m facing the same situation my grandfathers were facing except moving to so some crappy and still relatively expensive house far away from everything and everyone where both parents still have to work is hardly the land of milk and honey. Then again, even in Italy and Jordan, they were making it work on one income. So here we are 50 years later and I’m just trying to have what my grandparents escaped from. Lol

 

[flynnibus]

Maybe every few generations, one generation has to sacrifice. My grandparents came here in the 70s from other countries and left everything including their entire families. For that sacrifice however they were blessed with a land of great opportunity. Their kids (my parents, uncles) generation was the “lucky” generation that was easily able to live and purchase homes in the city they grew up in. It seems like I’m facing the same situation my grandfathers were facing except moving to so some crappy and still relatively expensive house far away from everything and everyone where both parents still have to work is hardly the land of milk and honey. Then again, even in Italy and Jordan, they were making it work on one income. So here we are 50 years later and I’m just trying to have what my grandparents escaped from. Lol

Yes some have more opportunity then others - no doubt. As you said, timing is a huge part too. If you were ready to move in 2004… you didn’t create the housing price bubble… but you had to face it it and cope with it. Just like people in the 70s dealt with high lending costs and the economic stall that hurt incomes.
or like I mentioned catastrophic setbacks… like having to support siblings, medical setbacks, etc. But people can do their part to try to be ready for some so they don’t become catastrophic.

all of my kids left home with 6k-10k in their bank account- saving it for a rainy day or to be ready for their first big purchases (car, house,etc). How? We made them work pretty much as soon as they could and we emphasized the importance of frugality and preparation. They knew how to shop, when to spend, when to save, and how to make decisions over worth. Now as they go on in their adult life we will see how they evolve but i tried to do my part to set them up for success through their own work.

No I didn’t charge them rent or make them buy a car at 16… but they got beaters or had to share, not bmws, and when that car was unavailable it was on them to figure out plan b. But all of them worked every week. And they learned the importance of taking advantage the easy times so they will be ready for the harder times.

opportunity is not equal - but its no excuse for lack of initiative or action. Sometimes we get an easy base hit… sometimes you go through a slump. But you can’t expect someone else to hand you a gift wrapped booster pack .

 

[el_super]

Are you in a position where you hire people?
Or manage groups of people of that age group?

if you were… you’d understand.

I do, and this has not been my experience at all.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yes some have more opportunity then others - no doubt. As you said, timing is a huge part too. If you were ready to move in 2004… you didn’t create the housing price bubble… but you had to face it it and cope with it. Just like people in the 70s dealt with high lending costs and the economic stall that hurt incomes.
or like I mentioned catastrophic setbacks… like having to support siblings, medical setbacks, etc. But people can do their part to try to be ready for some so they don’t become catastrophic.

Timing is definitely a big part, expectations are also a big part.

The idea that everyone should be able to afford a home in their 20s is odd to me. I didn’t buy my first home (on a single income) until I was in my 30s, and even that was only possible because of the crash in 2007, prior to that I technically could have afforded a house but I would have been very housepoor.

I work with a lot of 20 somethings and the vast majority are hard workers, many even working multiple jobs, so in my experience it’s not a work ethic issue… most want everything now though, fancy cars, nice home, nice furniture, etc, I think the concept of becoming established and paying your dues in your 20s has been somewhat lost. (Which isn’t surprising given we live in a world we’re everything is available nearly instantaneously now.)

 

[flynnibus]

I don't really care what age people decide to 'settle down' at and establish a home base, etc.. nor do I think it has any reflection on attitudes. Heck, in hindsight I wish I could have spent 7 more years living year to year at the beach. But my life events didn't let that happen. I had three kids by age 29... while most of my friends were living the NJ Shore life and living like 18yr olds until their mid thirties.

My best friend was making great money as an optometrist and basically just living in the bar every night... I didn't frown on his choice, but I did frown on the fact he was only working 3 days a week. Telling him this was the time where he could be banking so much while he had no bills and no cares.. and then could even set himself up to do things like retire early, or live a bigger life. Instead, he was just happy to work the least amount possible. Now? He works 5 or 6 days and really has no outlook for an exit nor nest egg to be able to do what he'd really like to do. That's on him.

Where I have issue is where people complain about their situation and can't show what they are doing about it. It's always excuses or someone else's fault while other choices hold them back.

"my job sucks" - what are you doing about it?
"wages are too low" - what are you doing to change your line of work?
"everything is too expensive here" - if it's dragging you down that much, why are you still choosing to be there?

You can't control what life throws at you - but you can control your choices and what you try to do going forward. If something is holding you back that much - make a change.

If your borderline homeless because you work at Disneyland... why on gods green earth are you still working at Disneyland?

 

[RobWDW1971]

I have a genuine question, do you think Millenials and GenZ'ers don't work? Do you think all we do is take Ubers to go get overpriced coffee or whatever "Instagram worthy snacks" are nearby and don't also work? When you were young and worked tough jobs did you not do anything outside of work for fun? I don't really get this idea that is thrown around that Millenials and Gen Z kids are lazy, we have advancements like Uber and Doordash sure but we also work. I have worked full work weeks at restaurants and retail jobs while taking 5 classes at community college to save money on going to a 4 year immediately, I am lucky now to work in an office job part time but all year round that I have been a temporary intern at for the last 5-6 years during summers and winters to secure myself a job while finishing my degree to work there full time out of college. I am very lucky but I have also had my share of **** jobs working long hours busting my *** while also going to school full time (and even had band rehearsals multiple times a week) and still found time to go out with friends. I lived and still live at home (housing here is ridiculously expensive on top of school costs) but then again a very very large percent of young people now live at home due to the rising housing costs and everything else discussed here.

Sure, I agree there are entitled lazy people in this generation who just get money from their parents to do whatever they want, but that has been a thing in every generation. You just see it now because we have social media and your generation didn't. I like to **** on terminally online Instagram "influencers" as much as anyone else, I don't care about social media at all personally, but at times the older people on here seem to be really disconnected from how hard younger people do work. I don't know anyone my age who hasn't had ****ty jobs who just sits back and gets free money from their parents to go do whatever they want while they "build their brand" on Instagram to become an influencer. Just because you see those people online does not mean they're the majority. I do think there are a lot of young entitled people but quite frankly there are a lot of middle aged and old entitled people too, I think that is a consequence of a lot of things aside from just social media. Some of the most entitled people I have met are older people who think everything has to go their way and get angry when they don't get 100% what they want. I don't mean to attack you in specific, I just see this sentiment a lot in this thread and it really bothers me how little credit you give the large, vast majority of young people who are working their butts off to afford to live. Yes people talk about their mental health and stuff now and it can be a bit excessive but hey mental health is important and I'm glad my generation talks about it and doesn't believe in a work culture that works people to their bone and doesn't give them time to decompress, it will make people much happier if they think of themselves and take care of themselves.

Oh, and I forgot to add:

- Complete lack of sense of humor and ability to laugh at oneself

- Insufferable earnestness

 

[TP2000]

"Keep in mind she has had that same job in that same lounge since 1988."
" How much do you think she should get?"
The same wage as 1988 adjusted to inflation.

Glyndanna claims in the video that when she started at Disneyland in 1988 she was making $8 per hour.

Adjusted for inflation, her $8 per hour wage in 1988 adjusted for inflation would be $17.75 per hour today.

The Inflation Calculator

westegg.com

There.. WAS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Uh... I don't think that was the argument you were trying to make, was it? You want Glyndanna to make the same rate today as she was in 1988, adjusted for inflation?

I mean, that's my argument too. Any 18 year old with no skills and no job experience can wander in off the street and after 3 days of training also put out muffins and juice for $17 or $18 bucks per hour. Alongside Glyndanna.

 

[TP2000]

Minimum wage in 1988 was $3.35, that’s the equivalent of $8.01 today according to inflation calculators.

According to that logic she is overpaid, factor in CAs insane housing and we know that’s not true but simply looking at inflation she makes a lot more now than she did then.

To be fair to Glyndanna, she claims she started at Disneyland as a "cashier" and was making well over minimum wage in 1988. It was an $8 per hour wage to cashier according to her. Three years later, in 1991, she transferred from her cashier job to become a hostess in the hotel lounge where she works today.

Which seems rather suspicious that Disneyland was hiring in teenage cashiers at $5 over the minimum wage in 1988, but we'll just go with it.

(I could believe a buck or two over minimum in '88, but $5 over the '88 minimum wage of $3.35? I think Glyndanna's memory banks are failing a bit, which happens to us all.)

Her $8 starting wage in 1988 becomes a $17.75 per hour wage in today's money, adjusted for inflation.

 

[Sailor310]

One CM actually DID quit after 3 years:

“I loved the work I did for the Disneyland Resort. It was one of the best, most fun, and rewarding (personally) jobs I’ve had. But making magic doesn’t pay the bills. It doesn’t feed my children, keep a roof over their heads, put clothes on their back, or keep the electricity on. How are we supposed to make magic when we can’t even afford to live?”

- Former employee who worked at the park for 3 years

 

[TP2000]

Thank you!!!!
Thats what I have been trying to say. But the twisting here of words is insane.

There's no twisting of words. I asked a simple question.

What should Glyndanna Shevlin be paid per hour to be a hostess in the Disneyland Hotel lounge?

I think she should get $18 per hour.

You apparently think she should only get $17.75 per hour?

The same wage as 1988 adjusted to inflation.

Why is it so hard to just put a dollar figure on that job? If you think $18 per hour is too low, what is the hourly wage you want then? $20 per hour? $25 per hour? $45 per hour?

I'm honestly just baffled why anyone who makes the "Living Wage!" argument can never actually say what that means as a wage per hour.

 

[TP2000]

Oh, and I forgot to add:

- Complete lack of sense of humor and ability to laugh at oneself

- Insufferable earnestness

Thank you for saying that! I thought that I (and my friends) were the only ones who noticed that!

You see it here in the messages, and you see it on their faces out in real life. So many young people today just don't laugh. They seem just miserable. They seem afraid to laugh at themselves, much less others. It's almost like there's a section of their personality that went missing about 15 years ago.

I'm constantly laughing out loud, alone in my home, at myself and the stupid or silly stuff I do. Today I got laughing with a random lady in line at Ralph's Fresh Fare when I commented to her on a 70 year old Cher on the cover of a magazine.

I'm going to a dinner party tonight, and I plan on laughing the whole evening. I already have three funny stories to tell some specific people at the party who I know will burst into hilarity.

I laugh at the world, because the world can be a very funny place. And I especially laugh with humans; they're often hysterical creatures! The biggest laughs are reserved for laughing at myself, because I do ridiculously stupid and funny things sometimes.

Why are these kids today so.... boring and silent? They never laugh.

 

[RobWDW1971]

There's no twisting of words. I asked a simple question.

What should Glyndanna Shevlin be paid per hour to be a hostess in the Disneyland Hotel lounge?

I think she should get $18 per hour.

You apparently think she should only get $17.75 per hour?
.

Sold! And Cesar obviously agrees! Moving on!

Oh, and her benefits have almost assuredly grown faster than inflation over that time so she's making out like a bandit for putting out the same muffins on the same table since before Adele was born.

 

[RobWDW1971]

Thank you for saying that! I thought that I (and my friends) were the only ones who noticed that!

You see it here in the messages, and you see it on their faces out in real life. So many young people today just don't laugh. They seem just miserable. They seem afraid to laugh at themselves, much less others. It's almost like there's a section of their personality that went missing about 15 years ago.

I'm constantly laughing out loud, alone in my home, at myself and the stupid or silly stuff I do. Today I got laughing with a random lady in line at Ralph's Fresh Fare when I commented to her on a 70 year old Cher on the cover of a magazine.

I'm going to a dinner party tonight, and I plan on laughing the whole evening. I already have three funny stories to tell some specific people at the party who I know will burst into hilarity.

I laugh at the world, because the world can be a very funny place. And I especially laugh with humans; they're often hysterical creatures! The biggest laughs are reserved for laughing at myself, because I do ridiculously stupid and funny things sometimes.

Why are these kids today so.... boring and silent? They never laugh.

It's hard to have a sense of humor when you are saving the world, Grandpa!!!

Just because being a gay man in the 80's was so easy and widely accepted, you don't understand what they are dealing with!!!

They are simultaneously solving global warming, racism, economic equity, bullying, sexual assault, #metoo, and the endless violence and shaming of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ community!!!

All of that AND trying to maintain an online brand on multiple social media platforms!!!

You just don't get how important, amazing, and world-changing they are!!!

Sarcasm, a sense of humor, self-deprecation, and fun is for those maintaining the oppressive social order!!!

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I'm honestly just baffled why anyone who makes the "Living Wage!" argument can never actually say what that means as a wage per hour.

This is similar to asking what “paying their fair share” is regarding taxes, it’s always “more than they pay now“ but it’s very hard to get an actual answer to the question.

 

[SuddenStorm]

This is similar to asking what “paying their fair share” is regarding taxes, it’s always “more than they pay now“ but it’s very hard to get an actual answer to the question.

Anyone that has a net worth that is $.01 higher than my own needs to be paying their fair share of taxes!

 

[TP2000]

It's hard to have a sense of humor when you are saving the world, Grandpa!!!

Just because being a gay man in the 80's was so easy and widely accepted, you don't understand what they are dealing with!!!

You think the 80's was fun, what with AIDS and everything?!? You should have seen the 1970's, when even an old queen like Paul Lynde had to talk in code on The Hollywood Squares.

Wait, it's all coming back to me now, I can even top that... try being an enlisted man in the service at a time when practicing homosexuals were not just illegal, they were national security concerns just waiting to be exploited by Soviet spies. There's where the real fun was at!

They are simultaneously solving global warming, racism, economic equity, bullying, sexual assault, #metoo, and the endless violence and shaming of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ community!!!

All of that AND trying to maintain an online brand on multiple social media platforms!!!

You just don't get how important, amazing, and world-changing they are!!!

The word "amazing" is an entire thread unto itself. I just want to understand, are they literally amazed by that pumpkin spice latte, or do they honestly only know three adjectives?

Sarcasm, a sense of humor, self-deprecation, and fun is for those maintaining the oppressive social order!!!

Oh. That actually explains it.

It also explains why at the party tonight, by the time the dessert was served, my side hurt from laughing.

 

[October82]

This is similar to asking what “paying their fair share” is regarding taxes, it’s always “more than they pay now“ but it’s very hard to get an actual answer to the question.

Public policy polling consistently shows what people mean by that. It's basically favoring something like the left graph (below) over the right. That doesn't mean that the left tax rates are what people prefer, but that people generally want marginal tax brackets to change according to these curves.

 

[October82]

It's hard to have a sense of humor when you are saving the world, Grandpa!!!

Just because being a gay man in the 80's was so easy and widely accepted, you don't understand what they are dealing with!!!

They are simultaneously solving global warming, racism, economic equity, bullying, sexual assault, #metoo, and the endless violence and shaming of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ community!!!

All of that AND trying to maintain an online brand on multiple social media platforms!!!

You just don't get how important, amazing, and world-changing they are!!!

Sarcasm, a sense of humor, self-deprecation, and fun is for those maintaining the oppressive social order!!!

Yes, it's terrible that young people are concerned with solving these problems instead of leaving them for future generations.

 

[TP2000]

Yes, it's terrible that young people are concerned with solving these problems instead of leaving them for future generations.

Soylent Green is people!!!!

Which reminds me. This fabulous Charleton Heston movie from 1973 was set in the year 2022. That's in six weeks.

Back in the early 1970's all the "experts" just knew the population explosion would destroy us all, we'd all be starving to death by now and all the oil would be gone, and that all human advancement and technological progress would stop circa 1972.

Because... "experts" never lie! They also never apologize when they get it all so very wrong.

But if any of you kids are looking for a fun movie night in front of your giant 4K screen, you can't do better than the 50 year old Big Hollywood classic Soylent Green. All the "experts" just knew this was our future. It was common knowledge back in the 1970's that this is what the 2020's would be like. They're experts!