Disney loses appeal

[SirLink]

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OK, care to elaborate. You seem to know this so what is the truth and how do you know?

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OK, then how long would it take and again, how do you know?

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Then the problem isn't a failing foundation? Because if the thing that the Yeti is attached too, is failing then how could it not be a possible threat to riders especially since it is leaning out toward the track?

I'm not Lee by any stretch of the imagination, but they built the Mountain and then added the Yeti - they didn't build the Mountain around Yeti - so they have to have an easy platform and big doors on the backside of the Mountain to get in don't they...

Like the Mist system was turned off because it was deteriorating the track - WDI had a system, to my limited understanding, that would resolve the errors, but TDO said "no, no,no".

 

[Darth Sidious]

$319 mil may not be enough to do anything to the stock, but it isn't "nothing to Disney". That's an enormous amount of cash that could be generating money in other ways. This is a much bigger deal than some of you would believe.

Look at the minimal loss of John Carter (if it actually lost money at all after video sales were initially so strong) and the impact it had on Disney.

The fact is that the money wouldn't have gone towards anything else. Corporations budget everything, including potential legal settlements. This money while large is not coming out of the budget for P&R. Money is budgeted for potential legal fees just like it is budgeted for WDW CAPEX.

EDIT: I am not trying to argue you or flame you or anything. I am just throwing that out there. I meant to write this earlier in a post but reading your post reminded me of my missed point so I am quoting your post.

 

[traylorc]

$319 mil may not be enough to do anything to the stock, but it isn't "nothing to Disney". That's an enormous amount of cash that could be generating money in other ways. This is a much bigger deal than some of you would believe.

Look at the minimal loss of John Carter (if it actually lost money at all after video sales were initially so strong) and the impact it had on Disney.

I'm not sure I understand how this is "a bigger deal than some of us would believe"? I just checked Disney stock and it's slightly up. If investors felt the $319 million was such a big deal Disney's stock price would have drastically declined as investors dump their shares. Additionally Disney can expense the legal costs involved in disputing this lawsuit (including the appeal) to minimize any taxable liabilities.

Lastly... it is not uncommon for multi-billion dollar corporations have significant insurance policies in place just in case they find themselves on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Therefore it is very likely that little or no cash comes out of Disney's pocket to pay this verdict.

 

[flynnibus]

sounds like an interesting topic... for one of these forums
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/forums/disney-co-news-and-discussion.31/
or
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/forums/animation-movies-tv-video-and-dvd.32/

 

[Lee]

OK, care to elaborate. You seem to know this so what is the truth and how do you know?

This is probably the most-over discussed subject on Magic. Search for it.
The yeti is perfectly accessable inside the mountain. He went in last, and can be pulled out if necessary without doing any major structural work to the mountain.
As I am told, the issue lies with the mechanical structure of the yeti, and the stresses it has put on it's base. All of this is doable without an excess of hassle, just some money and downtime.

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Ok, then how long would it take and again, how do you know?

It could be fixed during a closure (if they didn't want to do it third shift) of maybe a month.

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Then the problem isn't a failing foundation? Because if the thing that the Yeti is attached too, is failing then how could it not be a possible threat to riders especially since it is leaning out toward the track?

There is stress on the figure's base mechanism and it's footing. There is no danger of the figure falling onto the track, it isn't that sort of foundation failure, and is therefore no threat to riders.

That said, Disney's lawyers have become extremely paranoid about the possibility of moving effects (or structures) falling on a guest anywhere on property. That's why the rocks don't move anymore on BTM, the pterodactyl in Dino doesn't move, there are nets at ToL and Splash, etc. The possibility exists that the yeti will never be fixed just because some lawyer is worried that his arm may fall off mid-swing and hit a tourist.

As for how do I know?
Same way I know anything. I am rather well informed.

 

[Darth Sidious]

I'm not sure I understand how this is "a bigger deal than some of us would believe"? I just checked Disney stock and it's slightly up. If investors felt the $319 million was such a big deal Disney's stock price would have drastically declined as investors dump their shares. Additionally Disney can expense the legal costs involved in disputing this lawsuit (including the appeal) to minimize any taxable liabilities.

Lastly... it is not uncommon for multi-billion dollar corporations have significant insurance policies in place just in case they find themselves on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Therefore it is very likely that little or no cash comes out of Disney's pocket to pay this verdict.

Everything you said is pretty accurate but it's worth noting that this lawsuit would have already been factored into the share price. The price fluctuation is for some other reason. You correct on everything you said but the share price wouldn't show us anything on this right now.

 

[zulemara]

Everyone has had a hissy fit with Test Track being shut down for only a few months.

I know Lee already responded, but darnit I am tired of people(not you, but people in general) complaining when Disney temporarily shuts something down for a refurb. People having a hissy fit about TT need to take off their rose colored glasses and see the desperate need of an overhaul to the attraction. I'm sure ppl would throw a fit if they close Splash too, despite the constant reported non working animatronics.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this wouldn't fly at DL because the people visiting look at the betterment of the product over the disappointment of something on their visit. It's because the guests accept a broken yeti, wasteland PI, broken Splash animations, while ticket prices get raised that TDO gets away with this crap! ugh!

 

[the.dreamfinder]

That said, Disney's lawyers have become extremely paranoid about the possibility of moving effects (or structures) falling on a guest anywhere on property. That's why the rocks don't move anymore on BTM, the pterodactyl in Dino doesn't move, there are nets at ToL and Splash, etc. The possibility exists that the yeti will never be fixed just because some lawyer is worried that his arm may fall off mid-swing and hit a tourist.

Shouldn't they be more ... um... worried about a poorly maintained ride system failing and killing/injuring guests...

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm not Lee by any stretch of the imagination, but they built the Mountain and then added the Yeti - they didn't build the Mountain around Yeti - so they have to have an easy platform and big doors on the backside of the Mountain to get in don't they...

Like the Mist system was turned off because it was deteriorating the track - WDI had a system, to my limited understanding, that would resolve the errors, but TDO said "no, no,no".

This is probably the most-over discussed subject on Magic. Search for it.
The yeti is perfectly accessable inside the mountain. He went in last, and can be pulled out if necessary without doing any major structural work to the mountain.
As I am told, the issue lies with the mechanical structure of the yeti, and the stresses it has put on it's base. All of this is doable without an excess of hassle, just some money and downtime.

​

It could be fixed during a closure (if they didn't want to do it third shift) of maybe a month.

​

There is stress on the figure's base mechanism and it's footing. There is no danger of the figure falling onto the track, it isn't that sort of foundation failure, and is therefore no threat to riders.

That said, Disney's lawyers have become extremely paranoid about the possibility of moving effects (or structures) falling on a guest anywhere on property. That's why the rocks don't move anymore on BTM, the pterodactyl in Dino doesn't move, there are nets at ToL and Splash, etc. The possibility exists that the yeti will never be fixed just because some lawyer is worried that his arm may fall off mid-swing and hit a tourist.

As for how do I know?
Same way I know anything. I am rather well informed.

So then, what you are saying is the Joe was a major liar when he publicly said that the Mountain, Ride and Yeti were built in unison therefore implying that after construction is was all one locked system that was integrated in place during construction. That things couldn't get in or out after a certain phase. I may have misunderstood that whole spiel, but that is what I got out of it.

Thanks for the descriptive information. Maybe I just like to think that there is more reason for it not being repaired then "They just don't wanna!"

Remember that some of you folks have a tightly knit little group that most of us don't know. You could be spouting more BS then the Chicago Stock Yard for all I know. Since you don't identify how you are well informed then we (me) are just taking your word for it. I have no reason to doubt you, but I have no reason to always feel confident that your knowledge isn't just manufactured. Heck, even I could do that!

 

[Darth Sidious]

$319 MILLION (see, I said 'it', oh no, I said 'it', oh, I said 'it' again ... ) is not a drop in the the bucket to TWDC. How do I know?

Because it's 10 times Bob Iger's average compensation over the last 6 years!

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2012/12/ceo-compensation-12_Robert-A-Iger_WM6O.html

To be fair the justification for insane CEO compensation has been that its small relative to the company and they've managed growth that deserves the compensation.

Maybe Iger's compensation is just a drop in the ocean then? Haha sorry I had to.

 

[nytimez]

Remember that some of you folks have a tightly knit little group that most of us don't know. You could be spouting more BS then the Chicago Stock Yard for all I know. Since you don't identify how you are well informed then we (me) are just taking your word for it. I have no reason to doubt you, but I have no reason to always feel confident that your knowledge isn't just manufactured. Heck, even I could do that!

If you've been on this board since 2003 and think there's any chance at all that Lee could be "spouting more BS than the Chicago Stock Yard," then you're spouting plenty yourself.

 

[Lee]

So then, what you are saying is the Joe was a major liar when he publicly said that the Mountain, Ride and Yeti were built in unison therefore implying that after construction is was all one locked system that was integrated in place during construction.

The mountain structure and ride support system are entwined like a giant puzzle.
The yeti is housed in his own part of the show building, accessable via the large doors in the back of the mountain. The mountain wasn't built around him, he was installed after the mountain and ride were almost finished.

Joe sometimes...embelishes...

 

[DisneyparkFreak]

They were all built at the same time. The mountain and ride system in FL and the Yeti in CA. They didnt wait until after the mountain was built to start construction on the Yeti. So in all actuality Joe wasn't lying, and all locks have keys somewhere.

 

[Ignohippo]

I'm not sure I understand how this is "a bigger deal than some of us would believe"? I just checked Disney stock and it's slightly up. If investors felt the $319 million was such a big deal Disney's stock price would have drastically declined as investors dump their shares. Additionally Disney can expense the legal costs involved in disputing this lawsuit (including the appeal) to minimize any taxable liabilities.

Lastly... it is not uncommon for multi-billion dollar corporations have significant insurance policies in place just in case they find themselves on the wrong end of a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Therefore it is very likely that little or no cash comes out of Disney's pocket to pay this verdict.

The very first sentence of my statement said:
"$319 mil may not be enough to do anything to the stock"

This isn't a big enough issue to effect the stock, but it isn't a "drop in the bucket" either.

Also, as I understand it, there is no insurance policy. Disney is self-insured. Certainly the funds to pay the judgement have been factored into the budget for the last few years, but that doesn't mean Disney is happy to pay it. Disney will be paying for this themselves.

 

[WED99]

If $319 mil is nothing to Disney, 'splain to me again why we're still gettin' down with Disco Yeti???

My guess is that Everest is a major component in AK and the only reason some people go. If they closed it down for the time needed to fix the Yeti, they would lose money. They will probably wait until a new E-Ticket arrives (maybe Avatar) so they can fix it.

 

[Darth Sidious]

The very first sentence of my statement said:
"$319 mil may not be enough to do anything to the stock"

This isn't a big enough issue to effect the stock, but it isn't a "drop in the bucket" either.

Also, as I understand it, there is no insurance policy. Disney is self-insured. Certainly the funds to pay the judgement have been factored into the budget for the last few years, but that doesn't mean Disney is happy to pay it. Disney will be paying for this themselves.

Keep in mind they knew of this case years ago... This was just appealed now but they have likely accounted for the settlement already even aside from their budgeting. That being said they likely have insurance. There was a case on the early 2000s where Disney's insurance company had to pay around $250m for 'stealing' the idea of Disney's Wide World of Sports. I'd find it hard to imagine they don't have insurance still.... Ill check their 10k quick to see if they show it on the books.

Edit: they do in fact have insurance as per the 10k... I'd be shocked if a company didn't because that's way too much risk to take on your own dime.

 

[Goofyernmost]

If you've been on this board since 2003 and think there's any chance at all that Lee could be "spouting more BS than the Chicago Stock Yard," then you're spouting plenty yourself.

I joined in 2003 but was never active until recently. I don't know who these people are and the only one I have any knowledge of is "74" and that is from a completely different board. So, since I have no knowledge of Lee, it is quite possible for me to think he might be "spouting". Just because someone says they know something isn't an automatic OK with me. I need more information before that becomes a mind set.

That's not saying anything against Lee, hell he might be Mr. Iger for all I know. But I do get upset with the attitude that someone can make a statement like I did, which is based on what I had heard, not what I had witnessed and then just get a flippant answer like "Nope!" with no explanation or effort to tell me why. That does not get my respect or admiration. It's just me, probably, but I am not easily awestruck.

So I asked for further explanation and wanted to know how Lee knew all that. So far the answer to that has been..."because I'm informed". Not impressed, but since I have nothing vested in this little adventure in daily entertainment, it doesn't have to impress me, just inform me. And yes, I am quite capable of spouting BS as well, perhaps that is why I'm skeptical at times.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The mountain structure and ride support system are entwined like a giant puzzle.
The yeti is housed in his own part of the show building, accessable via the large doors in the back of the mountain. The mountain wasn't built around him, he was installed after the mountain and ride were almost finished.

Joe sometimes...embelishes...

Thanks for the information. I will be sure, in the future, to spend less time mesmerized by his earring and pay more attention.

 

[SirLink]

Remember that some of you folks have a tightly knit little group that most of us don't know. You could be spouting more BS then the Chicago Stock Yard for all I know. Since you don't identify how you are well informed then we (me) are just taking your word for it. I have no reason to doubt you, but I have no reason to always feel confident that your knowledge isn't just manufactured. Heck, even I could do that!

I see you quoted my post, I can categorically state - I'm no insider, never claimed to be - but I remember @Lee talking about it on a defunct 'Kingdom message board. Oh yeah whatever happened to that owner?

 

[traylorc]

The very first sentence of my statement said:
"$319 mil may not be enough to do anything to the stock"

This isn't a big enough issue to effect the stock, but it isn't a "drop in the bucket" either.

Also, as I understand it, there is no insurance policy. Disney is self-insured. Certainly the funds to pay the judgement have been factored into the budget for the last few years, but that doesn't mean Disney is happy to pay it. Disney will be paying for this themselves.

IMHO when dealing with Fortune 500 / publicly traded companies...if something doesn't negatively impact the stock price...it is a "drop in the bucket". Assuming that Disney does have to pay this verdict themselves, it's simply the cost of doing business for a multi billion company. So the lawsuit has not negatively impacted Disney's stock price, Disney currently has a market cap of $88 billion dollars, Disney still possesses billions of dollars in cash and cash equivalents...so I'm trying to understand your statement that Disney losing this appeal is "a bigger deal than some of us would believe". I did not understand the basis of that assertion.

At the end of the day, maybe we will have to agree to disagree.

Lastly..no offense...but could I ask how you know that Disney is self insured for all forms of liability? Perhaps you work for Disney or read that information in one of their annual reports??? I'm curious....