I basically said it all here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/indiana-jones-5-now-pushed-back-to-2021.911396/post-10634158
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Disney is a struggling company. I don’t see an end in sight.
- Thread starter CinematicFusion
- Start date
BlakeW39
Well-Known Member
sure, but the political climate of 1996 was very different from today. Are politics the most important issue affecting TWDC right now, no, but to say it isn't a factor at all is kind of silly. It's definitely an issue some people have with the company
Yes, but Eisner and his board capitulated to the Catholic League and the Southern Baptists by cancelling Ellen's sitcom and creating the narrative that the show was "too gay," and they offloaded Kevin Smith's Dogma. It was all a bluff, as we know now, but they didn't. They took these cretins seriously.
Epcot81Fan
Well-Known Member
To add some data to the conversation, the 2023 Axios/Harris Corporate Reputation poll has been released. A respected poll that Disney used to herald in their employment and investor communications before their collapse in the ratings.
Historically, Disney had always been in the top of the poll and, as recently as 2019, Disney was ranked #5.
This year, they have have continued their descent all the way down to #77 with some of their lowest rankings in Trust, Ethics, Citizenship, Character, and Culture.
When the core of your brand built over 100 years is based on those exact characteristics, that should be a concern.
Historically, Disney had always been in the top of the poll and, as recently as 2019, Disney was ranked #5.
This year, they have have continued their descent all the way down to #77 with some of their lowest rankings in Trust, Ethics, Citizenship, Character, and Culture.
When the core of your brand built over 100 years is based on those exact characteristics, that should be a concern.
Stripes
Premium Member
Disney is hardly alone in the position they’ve taken. The vast majority of corporate America has taken the same position as Disney. Universal Orlando is selling Pride merch. And Universal Studios Hollywood is hosting an after-hours Pride event featuring drag performances.
Even Fox News is supporting LGBTQ Pride.
LGBTQ+ Pride | America Together
Celebrate diversity with FOX News Media in a special cross-platform editorial series, profiling those with unique backgrounds and success in entertainment, science, business, and their communities.
www.foxnews.com
Stripes
Premium Member
Disney has been slandered by a particular politician for his own political gain. That said, there is something wrong with that poll. Just look at the top 10 and tell me this poll doesn’t need a change in methodology.
But, let’s take the poll at it’s word. Nike, embroiled in controversy a couple years ago, is up 35 spots in this year’s poll.
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Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
I still think this was about how it was said more than what was being said, had Iger or Eisner (or a PR minded CEO) made a carefully crafted statement regarding it they’d just be one of the crowd and forgotten, unfortunately for Disney Chapeks early missteps turned into employees protesting, which made the news, which turned into Chapek very publicly condemning it, which made the news, which turned into the ire of the Governor, which made the news… and now they are at the center of a culture war rather than being safely in the midst of companies who made well crafted statements at the beginning and then disappeared into the crowd.Disney is hardly alone in the position they’ve taken. The vast majority of corporate America has taken the same position as Disney. Universal Orlando is selling Pride merch. And Universal Studios Hollywood is hosting an after-hours Pride event featuring drag performances.
Even Fox News is supporting LGBTQ Pride.
LGBTQ+ Pride | America Together
Celebrate diversity with FOX News Media in a special cross-platform editorial series, profiling those with unique backgrounds and success in entertainment, science, business, and their communities.
Stripes
Premium Member
I agree. Chapek put out a very aggressive statement which was an overreaction to his prior silence. His statement basically attacked the legislature directly, which was ill-advised.
Epcot81Fan
Well-Known Member
Apparently, Disney was supportive of the methodology and credibility of the poll as they touted it to investors back in 2019:
"The Walt Disney Company ranks high on The Axios Harris Poll 100 for 2019, holding the No. 5 spot for the second consecutive year. The annual study uses proprietary research from The Harris Poll Reputation Quotient to measure the reputations of the 100 most visible companies in the U.S. and determine how people perceive these prominent businesses right now.
To build the 2019 list, consumers were first asked to identify companies they believe to have excelled in society over the past year. Then, during the study’s second phase, a nationally representative sample of 18,228 Americans was asked to rank these 100 “most visible” companies across key dimensions of corporate reputation attributes. Disney earned high marks in a variety of categories, including Vision (No. 4), Trajectory (No. 5), Growth (No. 6), Products/Service (No. 7) and Citizenship (No. 9)."
Note Disney has also fallen in this poll from #3 to #37.
"Disney also rose to No. 3 on Reputation Institute’s Global RepTrak® 100 for 2019, moving up two spots from last year. The annual ranking studies public perception toward the top companies around the globe, surveying 230,000 individuals in 15 countries to determine which are believed to be the world’s most reputable."
"The Walt Disney Company ranks high on The Axios Harris Poll 100 for 2019, holding the No. 5 spot for the second consecutive year. The annual study uses proprietary research from The Harris Poll Reputation Quotient to measure the reputations of the 100 most visible companies in the U.S. and determine how people perceive these prominent businesses right now.
To build the 2019 list, consumers were first asked to identify companies they believe to have excelled in society over the past year. Then, during the study’s second phase, a nationally representative sample of 18,228 Americans was asked to rank these 100 “most visible” companies across key dimensions of corporate reputation attributes. Disney earned high marks in a variety of categories, including Vision (No. 4), Trajectory (No. 5), Growth (No. 6), Products/Service (No. 7) and Citizenship (No. 9)."
Note Disney has also fallen in this poll from #3 to #37.
"Disney also rose to No. 3 on Reputation Institute’s Global RepTrak® 100 for 2019, moving up two spots from last year. The annual ranking studies public perception toward the top companies around the globe, surveying 230,000 individuals in 15 countries to determine which are believed to be the world’s most reputable."
Stripes
Premium Member
Of course Disney was going to march out a positive result to investors.
Companies make drastic moves on that poll all the time. During the pandemic, The Clorox Company was ranked above every single company. And then it fell off. It’s not a good poll to judge the long-term value and stability of a brand.
In any case, the company behind the poll stated that Disney’s ranking fell because of their about face when it came to their decision to address the bill. Chapek’s about face was seen as being calculating rather than being clear and firm in the company’s values. Essentially, the company should have taken a position and stuck with it.
BlakeW39
Well-Known Member
Disney is hardly alone in the position they’ve taken. The vast majority of corporate America has taken the same position as Disney. Universal Orlando is selling Pride merch. And Universal Studios Hollywood is hosting an after-hours Pride event featuring drag performances.
Even Fox News is supporting LGBTQ Pride.
LGBTQ+ Pride | America Together
Celebrate diversity with FOX News Media in a special cross-platform editorial series, profiling those with unique backgrounds and success in entertainment, science, business, and their communities.
do you think the backlash those companies have recieved is equal to what Disney's seen?
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
not yet
Those companies don't have a Harvard educated loudmouth retaliating against them.
Stripes
Premium Member
I think the backlash is overblown, with the exception of Bud Light. Bud Light’s entire existence is supported by marketing and they blew it. All these other companies have far more substance. Of course, Bud Light has been struggling for nearly a decade. Their existing customer base was in decline so they tried to pivot to a new one. Clearly their attempt was unsuccessful which will merely fuel the brand’s demise. But, I think there‘s a misconception that Bud Light was doing well before this controversy. They were not.
Many members of my extended family are conservative and watch Fox News like no tomorrow. My aunt and uncle, who fit this bill, just booked a vacation to WDW for their entire family (themselves, their daughters, son-in-laws, and grandkids). They haven’t been to Disney World in 30 years so it’s not like they’re big fans that simply can’t resist. One of the daughters and her family took a trip to Disneyland a month ago. The kids and the parents loved it, hence the trip to WDW.
Nike saw a big public backlash a couple years ago. Now they’re doing just fine and nobody cares. I think the important facts are:
1. Disney offers a compelling, highly differentiated product.
2. The vast majority of Americans do not care much at all about this controversy and even fewer care so much that they will attempt to boycott the company.
3. A majority of the American people (especially Disney’s target audience, millennials) and the vast majority of American companies support the same positions that Disney does which will eventually fatigue those attempting to boycott the company.
4. America has a strong history of collective amnesia.
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BlakeW39
Well-Known Member
I'd really caution against using anecdotes like that
But maybe we can find a way to measure this. Personally, although I don't think politics are the main reason Disney is struggling right now, I do think they are a contributing factor. I think the main issue though is just brand fatigue and oversaturation of their product in the marketplace. They're also consistently anti-fan so all their 'core' fan bases that would normally be their strongest supporters are now frequently their harshest detractors. Hopefully I'm not projecting with that one. But fan sentiment among Marvel, Lucasfilm, & Disney Parks has never been lower imo. And WDAS and Pixar have blended together to the point where the two are almost indistinguishable to me. They have lost their distinct brand identities imo. Then you have the live action studios which are just the remakes really and no one likes those. And ooohh boy the price gouging. Kicking us while we were down during COVID, taking advantage of a pandemic to overexploit its customers or whatever. So in terms of Disney's product quality, value proposition, and public relations (of which politics are unfortunately a part)?? why are we questioning DIS stock falling?
Stripes
Premium Member
I agree that many fans are not happy with the company right now, but I do think it’s headed in the right direction. We’ll have to wait a year or two to be sure. I don’t think there’s brand fatigue. I think if Disney makes a good product, people will be delighted regardless of brand. Lucasfilm has been turning out a lot of garbage. Marvel has put out some decent shows, but their movies have declined recently. Pixar’s story quality has been sagging since 2018, imo. The Parks are still very popular and the primary fan complaint has been rising prices and the reservation system. I’d caution Disney about making more remakes. While they are nice to look at, there is a clear trend of the movies lacking the magic of their animated counterparts. Not to mention I think it’s hard to get people excited about telling a story they already know by heart. There’s no excitement.
As for the stock drop, I think investors are concerned about streaming and the declines in cable revenue. I’m optimistic about streaming becoming a strong revenue source for the company, but there is a fair amount of uncertainty.
BlakeW39
Well-Known Member
Mmmm.... the parks are a very very different type of product from a movie, video game, tv show, etc. The fact that the parks still have high attendance doesn't contradict the fact that fan sentiment is at an all time low, for innumerable reasons. The parks have high attendance but are still a marginally worse product being sold at a substantially higher price. And I'm being generous with the word "marginally."
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erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
100% agreed. That's by far Disneys biggest issue in my opinion. There's always been an anti Disney sentiment out there. The difference between then and now, is a big chunk of fans is no longer trying to change the narrative for them. I know I would always defend the parks when someone would say it's not worth it... Now, I can only nod and say yea, it's crazy expensive and the quality isn't what it used to be. I can't really defend star wars, my all time, number one franchise for as long as I can remember. I can look past the sequels being completely disjointed and not great. But what I can't look past, is being told by the person in charge that my fandom is no longer important or needed.
BlakeW39
Well-Known Member
For sure... and the thing is, I actually used to be a pretty strong supporter for Disney and extremely optimistic for the company's future. I mean, I've always had a problem with some of the creative decisions they've made in the parks, and obviously I still have those concerns (@ my profile picture) but nowadays everything Disneys does or says seems to be to spite their most loyal fanbase. When Marvel Studios came out and said, someone who loves the comics pitching them a movie is a red flag. How Taika Waititi said he made Thor Love & Blunder to literally pi$$ off Thor fans (he actually said this). How Kathy treats OG Star Wars fans, and I'm not even a SW superfan but I see that how she behaves is unacceptable. Iger and what he said about "nondescript" Expedition Everest (original attraction) vs Frozen (crappy IP overlay). Genie+ and how they took advantage of parks guests in order to support their unprofitable streaming service. It's like everything Disney does now is specifically tailored to
give us the middle finger.
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That's not what Lucasfilm has ever said. Don't pretend otherwise. The problem is not Lucas, Rick McCallum, Kathleen Kennedy, J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson, Gareth Edwards, Ron Howard, Dave Filoni, Jon Favreau, or Robert Rodriguez. The problem is that you've always had a misinterpretation of what Star Wars is or means, what these characters are, and rather than admit you were wrong, you say "I'm right, THEY'RE wrong, THEY ruined it."
Newsflash, the original trilogy is not the holy text in the cathedral of St. Gary Kurtz. Kurtz didn't even do that much. It was always Lucas who did it in the beginning, and his HANDPICKED successor knows what fits Lucas's vision. Stop pretending you know better, because you simply don't. And you never will.
If that's what you mean by "(your) fandom is no longer important or needed," then that's certainly a valid point, because that kind of toxic energy is not needed whatsoever. But words like that have never come out from Lucasfilm in the first place.