Disney, Family Settle Death Lawsuit

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
Of course it would be hard to enforce the 6 year old limit. But it would also be nearly impossible to successfully sue if they knowingly disobey the rule.

No, there is no guarantee that a 6 year old will have exposed these health problems. I know several pediatricians, and I have heard many stories about health problems being exposed because Johnny can't keep up on the soccer field or in gym class. Such opportunities, in general, are less likely to be diagnosed before the age of 5 or 6. It is far likelier that the problem would have turned up at soccer league or gym class before he died at Disney World.

Certainly it would not be any less tragic for the family if he had died on the soccer field, but it would not be in any way Disney's fault. Disney does not want deaths at their parks, so it is in their interest to prevent them from happening on property. Legitimate rules to minimize accidents (not eliminate accidents entirely through overlybroad and strict rules) may be a logical step.

As I have already said, no attraction is 100% safe 100% of the time. Going to a ridiculous logical extreme of ubiquitous defibrillators and 24 year old age limits is moronic. Nobody is advocating for that. However, the line should be drawn somewhere, and the 6 year old line makes sense to me. Feel free to disagree, but I bet that Disney's lawyers and insurers would be far happier riight now if such a rule for the thrilliest rides had been in existence.
but there's no point in that rule if you can't enforce it. That is why the height limit is put in place. The height limit at least can try to get a higher aged person on it.

If there was a rule of 6 and over...and no way to enforce it...it doesn't make sense. At least the way that it is now...people can't get around the rules.
 

brisem

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
but there's no point in that rule if you can't enforce it. That is why the height limit is put in place. The height limit at least can try to get a higher aged person on it.

If there was a rule of 6 and over...and no way to enforce it...it doesn't make sense. At least the way that it is now...people can't get around the rules.

True, you may not be able to enforce it but it gives Disney legal protection if this happens again.
 
I think it's kinda extreme to to ask for certain ages for certain rides if they start putting to many restrictions on the rides no one will be able to ride then

then they will stop making new rides and because of liability issues or being sued by everyone.
dinner shows only no fun with that.
john
 

I3olTz

Active Member
was the kid(4 years old) really big enuf to get past the height requirement? or did anybody even check. if he wasnt tell enuf its disneys fault.....
 

polarboi

Member
3. When possible, have a green version. For example, use the bottom row on Soarin', use the back row on Tower of Terror.

Uhh... Ralph... maybe I'm just being obtuse, but how exactly could you have a "green version" in the back row of Tower of Terror?

And as for Soarin'... Soarin' is its own green version. There are no forces to contend with on Soarin', just a fear of heights. In fact, the only ride I can think of where a green version would make sense is M:S, and it has one now.

-p.b. :cool:

ETA: I can, however, think of a few rides that could use an Orange version! ;) Who wants to ride Haunted Mansion Orange with me? Feel the ghosts!
 

Fried Chicken

New Member
was the kid(4 years old) really big enuf to get past the height requirement? or did anybody even check. if he wasnt tell enuf its disneys fault.....
I do not think that is the case at all. If it was, Disney would be in much bigger trouble than that. Whenever I'm in the parks, I always see cast members measuring anyone close to the height requirement. If this was the case as well, it would have been plastered all over the news.
 

socalkdg

Active Member
I'll be there in May and my daughter is 5 and 46 1/2" tall. I'm thinking of letting her go on the green(this is the mellower one, yes?). She loves Star Tours, BTMR, Splash, etc. and thinks going in a rocket ship would be neat. I was on it a year ago and enjoyed it immensely, but I'm not ready for her to try orange yet.

Thoughts?
 

disneygoof1

New Member
I really don't understand what the family is talking about, no warning signs. They show you like five times before you go on that its not for people with heart conditions. I think the family should blame themselves because they didn't know he had this condition, leave Disney alone.
 

goofntink

Member
The case was dismissed with prejudice, legal term basically saying the defendent[Disney] was not at fault,and that both parties pay their respective legal fees. This ruling also bars both parties from discussing the case and the plaintiff [Family] from bringing any further legal action against the Defendent [Disney] in the future.

Just wanted to add, this means they got NO money from Disney.
 

tigsmom

Well-Known Member
I really don't understand what the family is talking about, no warning signs. They show you like five times before you go on that its not for people with heart conditions. I think the family should blame themselves because they didn't know he had this condition, leave Disney alone.

There is no way to know about a pre-existing condition until it causes problems. Unfortunately for this child that problem irreversible. :(
 

Empress Room

Active Member
The case was dismissed with prejudice, legal term basically saying the defendent[Disney] was not at fault,and that both parties pay their respective legal fees. This ruling also bars both parties from discussing the case and the plaintiff [Family] from bringing any further legal action against the Defendent [Disney] in the future.

Just wanted to add, this means they got NO money from Disney.

Sorry, I have to disagree. A dismissal of a complaint with prejudice simply means that the case has been withdrawn from the court's docket (either by the parties or by the judge) and cannot be refiled (that's what "with prejudice" means).

The dismissal of a case with prejudice does not necessarily mean that Disney was not at fault or that (necessarily) each party paid its respective legal fees. Similarly, such a dismissal does not (necessarily) bar the parties from discussing the matter or for the plaintiff family from suing Disney in the future (for a reason not addressed in the dismissed complaint).

It certainly does NOT mean that the family didn't receive money from Disney. (Just the opposite, in fact. Parties to litigation typically do not voluntarily dismiss complaints with prejudice prior to trial unless some form of financial settlement was agreed upon.)

In short, the public will likely never know the terms and conditions of the dismissal. Those would be found in a separate, likely confidential, settlement agreement addressing the settlement amount, non-disclosure, release and waiver and other material terms. A dismissal of a complaint with prejudice tells us nothing more than the complaint being dismissed and the matter finalized.
 

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
Well, quite a debate, and that's good.

"With prejudice" simply means that the family and Disney cannot have another lawsuit about this same issue. It means the case has settled, and neither party can sue each other again over this boy's death unless one or the other fails to abide by the settlement terms. For example, if Disney doesn't pay, or the family breaches a secrecy provision, the lawsuit could start up again against the breaching party only. By the way, I assume the case settled for something between $500,000 and $5 million, but I may be way off on that. I seriously doubt it exceeded $10 million. If I were to bet, I would say $ 1.25 million.

When I suggested my 6 year old rule, I was thinking as an insurance company and lawyer would think. No, I would not require birth certificates or a great deal of enforcement by CMs. Signage and a polite "Is your child over 6?" by the same CMs who check for height is all that I anticipate. If the parents say "yes", that's the end of it. Perhaps a simple sign that says, "Disney does not recommend that guests under the age of 6 ride this attraction". Believe me, even that could have prevented this death or avoided the lawsuit. Perhaps every attraction would have an age rating like toys and movies already have.

Yes, many children under 6 will easily tolerate the most thrilling of rides, but the height requirement shows that Disney indeed recognizes that some rides are not appropriate for smaller (younger) children. Of course, the height requirement discriminates against little people and stunted children. Some taller kindergarteners can ride anything while some tough but shorter 3rd graders are limited to less thrilling attractions. This isn't perfect, but the method is widely used even though it is not perfectly fair to everyone. Of course, height becomes an issue with seat design and straps on some rides, but that is another subject for debate.

When I mentioned green versions, I did not literally mean that alternate rides go side by side on every attraction. That would be absurdly cost-prohibitive. I merely advocated for the less intense areas of existing attractions, such as back rows or less bumpy areas. Fewer bumps and less volume night be doable when certain cars ride through Dinosaur, for example, but it might mean a major cost-prohibitive overhaul. I assume the greening of Mission Space was relatively inexpensive by comparison--just stop the centrifuge and make other relatively minor adjustments.

By the way, I believe having less intense versions, when fiscally and physically possible, enhances the usage and enjoyment of an attraction. Until this year, my wife and son refused to even try Mission Space. This year, they rode the green version at least a dozen times; it was my son's favorite ride by far. Neither of them rode the orange version, but they didn't need that degree of intensity to thoroughly enjoy the experience.

In my opinion, future attractions may even be designed with green versions. Can you imagine an Everest green line that goes through the mountain on a less intense route, doesn't go backward for any extensive period, and sees a less scary yeti, or the same yeti but from a distance? Green versions may be the future. Adding such a track to any of the coasters would be nearly impossible now, but future designers might put this in. My son wouild love a less intense version of the roller coasters I bet. Just a thought.
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
Well, quite a debate, and that's good.


In my opinion, future attractions may even be designed with green versions. Can you imagine an Everest green line that goes through the mountain on a less intense route, doesn't go backward for any extensive period, and sees a less scary yeti, or the same yeti but from a distance? Green versions may be the future. Adding such a track to any of the coasters would be nearly impossible now, but future designers might put this in. My son wouild love a less intense version of the roller coasters I bet. Just a thought.


Ralph.. you had me for most of your reasoning... but the thoughts on greening future attractions like coasters is in itself very cost prohibitive and absurd. Say we go back in time to the design of EE and build in a second track that spurs off of the loading area to go a different route. This would force the footprint of the ride (or mountain to be expanded to accomodate an additional passing track that would not intersect the current version and a likely a separate ride system that gives people a different experience... speed and sights and sounds from the full version.

But this also goes back to park design.... most theme parks are created with attractions for different audiences those that like thrill rides and those who want a relaxing experience. Disney has those attractions that appeal to those less willing to ride thrills. (JIYI, Nemo, UoE, DinoLand, The Land, Dumbo, Peter Pan, WtP, etc...) Actually, Disney has been roundly critcized for having too few thrills for the modern thrill park hopping guests. Many even say Yeti is not thrilling enough because of its brevity and lack of a super drop.
Bottom line... it would be more cost productive for Disney to put in another type of kiddie coaster like Goofy's Barnstormer... than it would to design a mega attraction with two tracks for different experiences.

Its possible to green something that doesn't move like a simulator with reprograming that is cost effective... but coasters that move on tracks would really hurt returns on investment.

Speaking of which... they really need to have a green pod on Body Wars. I almost lost my lunch on that thing in December because of the violent movements of the ride. :hurl: :hurl: :hurl:
 

MickeyBodyguard

New Member
After reading this post I had to respond to you Ralphlaw. I understand where you're coming from with the whole "6 year old age limit" but it's just not the right way to go. The height requirements are there for two purposes, 1, like you said, for certain seat and safety issues, and 2, they loosely monitor age requirements. Now, not everyone grows the same and there are tall 4 year olds(and this one had to be tall in order to ride M:S) but then again, not everyone with hidden heart problems have that revealed at age 6. Now, I'm 18 and have been going to WDW since I was 8 weeks old and remember having to wait to ride certain rides. When I finally hit 48 inches(I believe that height requirement for Splash Mountain) I was 6 years old and I think on average children grow around that rate, although there are exceptions, there always is. It's not incredibly hard for a lawyer to make the jury see Disney as an evil corprate giant beacuse that's how they do it. Big evil vs. innocent family so whatever Disney did, it's still a good chance the family would get money. Also, having a sign that reads, "Children under 6 suggested not to ride" sounds like a good idea and I thought that would be ok, but it adds unnecessary stress to the park guests. If a perfectably healthy 5 year old who meets the height requirement wants to ride and the parents read that sign, then they start to worry about whether or not they should take him. He's perfectly healthy as far as they know. They already suggest not to ride with heart conditions, back problems, etc. Unfortunately, this was a freak accident that noone could forsee. It was no ones fault and it could have happened anywhere. Like I said, it doesn't take a fantastic lawyer to persuade to the jury that Disney is a bad evil bent on taking peoples money because and small family vs. big corprate entity looks that way already at first glance. No matter what Disney does, they're still going to be sued.
 

bladerunner

Member
I strongly believe Disney should build more attractions and rides that are safe for everyone at any age. I have 3 children all under 9 years old who are Disney fanatics their favorite ride at Epcot is the Rio del Tiempo in the Mexico pavillion. The reality is that as a PAP holder the only park we go on most of the rides is at MK. Many other rides at other parks are skipped or my wife and I end up having to go alone. Regardless of the height requirements there is some parental logic and responsibility that has to go into what ride you let you children go on. It is a shame that several of Disney's newest rides can't be enjoyed by all - this doesn't go with original concept of the place.
 

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
No doubt that greening new attractions will be expensive, and possibly cost-prohibitive. If you notice, I say "may even be designed" not "will be designed". I am sure you've seen the lone adult with the younger kids waiting outside the thrill rides for the rest of the family. A green version would certainly be welcomed by many of those people as well as people who would otherwise completely avoid attractions that they perceive of as too intense.

Yes, MickeyBodyGuard, you make some very good points about the extra stress for guests. A sign that instead reads, "This attraction may be too intense for children under _____" would be helpful and probably not as scary for parents. Would Disney still get sued after tragedies? Yes, but probably not as often, and certainly not as successfully.

I still stand by my opinion on the 6 year old rule for those attractions that truly cause appreciable physical stress to the body. For me, Mission Space and Rock & Roller Coaster are the only two that fit this category. (Never been on Body Wars, but maybe there too.) And I seriously doubt that implementing this rule on these few attractions would lead to the absurd slippery slope of such rules on every attraction; only for those that reach a certain level of physical stress.

Any lawyer worth his/her salt can try to portray Disney as greedy, but Disney can counter many such arguments with ad nauseum testimony from their technical and guest relations people about the realities of running a theme park. Who would win that argument? Sometimes Disney, and sometimes the injured people. That uncertainty, as well as the horrible publicity for both sides, leads to settlements. However, having the best potential arguments and evidence guides settlements into certain directions. That is why rules and precautions are helpful when the inevitable lawsuits arise.
 

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