Disney doing buisness

lt94

New Member
Original Poster
Orlando Sentinel
Sat Jan 14 2012 7:01 PM
Walt Disney World and International Speedway Corp. are lobbying Florida lawmakers for a package of tax breaks that could save the two companies millions of dollars in state taxes during the next 20 years.

The first draft of the proposal — written by lobbyists for the two Central Florida businesses — was so broad and contained such a generous assortment of tax breaks that legislative analysts estimated it would cost the state at least $20 million a year and potentially much more.

Lobbying by the giant theme-park operator and the owner of NASCAR racetracks comes as the Legislature, which convened last week for its 2012 session, tries to close a budget gap of as much as $2 billion. It is the fifth consecutive year in which the state has faced a shortfall.

Representatives for Disney and ISC called the proposal an economic-development tool that would give them and other companies added incentive to build sports-tourism facilities, which ultimately could draw more visitors to Florida. Both companies noted that the legislation they have written obligates them to spend millions of dollars on construction before they realize any tax savings.

Disney said the incentives would help revive plans for a 100-lane bowling stadium on its property that were first announced nearly four years ago but which stalled when the developer was unable to obtain financing. ISC said incentives would both motivate it to spend more money upgrading its two Florida racetracks and help resurrect plans for a 71-acre entertainment complex next to its Daytona International Speedway that have languished since the real-estate collapse.

Disney spokesman Bryan Malenius called the proposal "an opportunity to draw millions of new families to the state, diversify its economy and fuel job creation."

But critics say Florida should not have to subsidize the Walt Disney Co., which earned a company-record profit of $4.8 billion during its most recent fiscal year, or ISC, which turned a profit of $54.5 million during its last reported fiscal year.

"These are large corporations who make a lot of money. I think they can invest themselves if they want to," said Senate Minority Leader Nan Rich, D-Weston.

The plan hatched by Disney and ISC calls for the creation of as many as five "Sports Tourism Economic Development Zones" across the state. To qualify, a zone would have to cover from 100 acres to 5 square miles; include a facility home to a major professional-sports team, a baseball spring-training stadium or a motorsports complex; and have hosted at least 15 professional or amateur events and drawn a minimum of 100,000 visitors within the past calendar year.

Businesses within a proposed sports zone would also have to agree to make capital investments totaling at least $20 million during 10 years.

It's unclear how many venues across the state would meet those criteria and attempt to qualify as sports zones. But there are at least three: Disney World's ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex and ISC's Daytona International Speedway in Daytona Beach and its Homestead-Miami Speedway in South Florida.

Once a designation is approved, any business that spends at least $10 million to build, renovate or expand a sports facility within the zone — and a facility would include any "ancillary" venues, such as retail, dining or entertainment businesses — would be eligible for several tax breaks.

They would not have to pay sales taxes on building materials used in the construction. They would not have to pay sales taxes on new business equipment — such as electronics or appliances — that cost more than $5,000 to purchase. And they would get credits, to offset either corporate income or sales taxes, based on the property taxes they pay, both for land and buildings and tangible personal property.

The first version of the legislation that Disney and ISC provided to legislative staff also included a sales-tax exemption on any electricity used in the sports facilities. Legislative analysts who were asked to study the proposal predicted it would cost at least $20 million a year but potentially much more; one staffer estimated the annual loss of tax revenue could "easily" exceed $100 million.

Disney said last week that it has submitted a revised version that no longer includes the electricity-tax break, among other changes, in an effort to help shrink the price tag.

Neither Disney nor ISC would discuss how much they might save individually. ISC Chief Financial Officer Dan Houser said "the better way to look at this" is as a tax-revenue generator, because it would create added incentive to build things that may not otherwise be built, such as ISC's planned entertainment complex in Daytona Beach.

"Without the incentive, such a project would not be feasible for us," Houser said.

Lobbyists for the two companies recently approached Rep. Dorothy Hukill, R-Port Orange, about sponsoring the legislation. Hukill represents a district near Daytona International Speedway and chairs the House Economic Affairs Committee, which evaluates many economic-development incentives.

They have also floated it with House Speaker Dean Cannon, R-Winter Park. Cannon said Friday that, though he hasn't seen specific details, "the concept sounds consistent with what I would like to see, which is anything we can do to promote tourism and protect tourism."

No lawmaker filed the proposal as a stand-alone bill before the start of the Legislature's annual 60-day session, which began Tuesday. Hukill said she may instead try to have a committee introduce it midsession or add the language to an unrelated piece of legislation at a later date, a tactic sometimes used to reduce public scrutiny
The proposal calls for each designated sports zone to expire after 10 years. But any zone could be renewed for another 10 years if it created at least 1,000 jobs or if a minimum of 1.5 million visitors, at least half of whom came from outside Florida, attended sporting events within the zone during the first 10 years.

That should be an easy bar for Disney and ISC to clear. Disney says its Wide World of Sports Complex already draws nearly 2 million people a year. ISC says Daytona International Speedway hosts about a dozen major races annually, and the largest, the Daytona 500, drew about 182,000 people last year
 

MUTZIE77

Well-Known Member
You might not go to Disney to bowl, but Disney could host the USBC national bowling tournatment every few years. Since bowling is the largest participant sport in the world, it may not be a bad plan for Disney.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
A 100 lane bowling alley Really ! My question is are we really going to disney to Bowl .

Just like the other sporting events that are held at WWoS, you are there as a spectator, not a participant. This would be true for the majority of the bowling facility as well, I would think. Sure, they might offer the opportunity to bowl on unused lanes or during periods when the facility isn't being used for an event. But that isn't the point.

As to the legislation, I don't think it is needed at all, but I expect it will be passed after a few more revisions to better hide the savings/cost to the State.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
There's no way Disney needs any state assistance in funding the bowling stadium. The fact that they're trying to pry the money from an already money-strapped government seems really sad and greedy...
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
There's no way Disney needs any state assistance in funding the bowling stadium. The fact that they're trying to pry the money from an already money-strapped government seems really sad and greedy...
It is just good business and in some cases good government as well. The way it is supposed to work is the government offers low interest loans, grants, etc for the project. This makes a project more attractive to a business owner/investor because there is less personal financial risk. The project gets built and as a result more tourists come in and spend money in hotels, restaurants, etc. The government makes more money in the form of increased tax revenue and investor makes money directly and the surrounding business make money due to increased tourism.

Does it always work out like this? Of course not but there are many times that it works out quite well.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
There's no way Disney needs any state assistance in funding the bowling stadium. The fact that they're trying to pry the money from an already money-strapped government seems really sad and greedy...

That's where your thought process is flawed. It's not the state's money that Disney is prying. It's Disney's money that they are trying to keep to invest.
 

DubyooDeeDubyoo

Active Member
They are nonetheless trying to disrupt revenue that the state uses to pay their bills.

In return they promise to build more sports facilities, which... eh. There's no guarantee that WDW needs even more land put toward sports and that it will really grow the economy. Eisner managed to stumble backwards into a great idea in the 90s, as the ESPN stuff came together with a lot of school sports, and following that the cheerleader tournaments. Stuff everyone involved into cheap All-Star motels nearby and collect the dough.

I feel like you can't have it both ways, saying you're a private business with private profits one minute, and then argue you deserve tax breaks for providing for the public good the next. If a private company is providing a service that government must deliver, the company deserves tax exemptions for doing what is basically the government's job; but there's no law anywhere saying government must provide sports stadiums.

Aren't they already along on Splitsville far enough to open her up without state assistance? Isn't that owned by some non-Disney entity?
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
Simplified math:

Tax breaks = building facilities = more tourism = more tax revenue.

No tax breaks = no building = reduced overall potential tax revenue.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
They are nonetheless trying to disrupt revenue that the state uses to pay their bills.

No they aren't. This is not money that the state already has and money the state would never get if this isn't built.

It is potentially money the state could see, but they are betting that the state would see MORE money if this money does NOT got to the state during construction.
 

DubyooDeeDubyoo

Active Member
Simplified math:

Tax breaks = building facilities = more tourism = more tax revenue.

No tax breaks = no building = reduced overall potential tax revenue.
It doesn't always work that way, though. You can give something tax breaks and they build a boondoggle. Worked that way in Vegas, the privately-run monorail system there was given a tax-exempt status normally offered only to non-profit organizations and companies providing government service. Now Disney is only asking to reduce state revenues instead of cost the state money via bonds like the Monorail did, but either one could not hit their projections.

Disney can say that they believe they will make (x) return on their investment, but government can reserve the right to not believe it.

No they aren't. This is not money that the state already has and money the state would never get if this isn't built.
Expiration of tax breaks are often counted on to keep revenues balanced in future years. The government may not have the revenue because the breaks haven't expired yet, but they may have already spent money with the expectation that the expiration of the breaks would refill the coffers.

Cautionary note as our doombuggies head off in an unexpected direction: I know nearly nothing about Florida-specific politics.
 

officeboy

Active Member
Is now a good time to mention tourist season? I wonder where I go for that license? Do you get that at the same place you get your fishing license? :wave:
 

TurkA77

New Member
Id like to also mention the 100's if not thousands of jobs that would be created by building these new projects and then running them. Not to mention opening the door for future projects and jobs.

The Governor of Florida gave Walt huge tax breaks when Disney World was built in order to insure the park would be built in Florida. I see this as a very similar situation.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
Aren't they already along on Splitsville far enough to open her up without state assistance? Isn't that owned by some non-Disney entity?

Again, this is not for Splitsville, this is for a large-scale, competition focused bowling facility for tournaments such as the PBA. Two completely different and unrelated projects other than both feature bowling alleys.
 

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
People need to look more into the end result than what appears by just quickly looking at an issue.

The first thought would be that Dis is greedy and they're wanting tax breaks and now the state will lose out on millions in tax revenue.

If you look deeper though, you'll see the project would create hundreds of construction jobs, tens to hundreds of permanent workers once it's built, millions in purchases of materials, and thousands of tourists coming to the state of Florida - all of which generate millions in taxes AND employing thousands of Floridians.

So, you can take the $20 mil per year from Disney, or you can get unknown millions from the tax money generated from the trickle down effect of the business AND employ thousands of people at the same time. Of course, a feasibility study should be produced to show just how beneficial these tax "incentives" would be.

In this economy, if the same amount of revenue can be produced for the state while creating jobs at the same time, you have to look at the proposal that's most beneficial to the community. Anything that brings more jobs is good by me.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Simplified math:

Tax breaks = building facilities = more tourism = more tax revenue.

No tax breaks = no building = reduced overall potential tax revenue.

That's where your thought process is flawed. It's not the state's money that Disney is prying. It's Disney's money that they are trying to keep to invest.

It is just good business and in some cases good government as well. The way it is supposed to work is the government offers low interest loans, grants, etc for the project. This makes a project more attractive to a business owner/investor because there is less personal financial risk. The project gets built and as a result more tourists come in and spend money in hotels, restaurants, etc. The government makes more money in the form of increased tax revenue and investor makes money directly and the surrounding business make money due to increased tourism.

Does it always work out like this? Of course not but there are many times that it works out quite well.

I humbly acknowledge my fiscal ignorance and hereby stand corrected.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
There's no way Disney needs any state assistance in funding the bowling stadium. The fact that they're trying to pry the money from an already money-strapped government seems really sad and greedy...

Well they didn't get the federal funds for their hsr, they will go after the scraps now.
 

lt94

New Member
Original Poster
If I was a Company that made 4.8 Billion and has over 2 million visitors to their sports complex I think I would throw some incentive toward a private company to build a project on my land that I felt would enhance my buisness thru hotel bookings,food, park entry fees no problem. I would be looked at as providing jobs for the community from my company. To ask the state for tax breaks on sales tax on building products tax breaks on copy machines discounts for electric I thought in buisness this was a tax cost at the end of the year anyway. The second step would any of the other sports complexes for the NFL or MLB teams (Florida has 4) that meet this critia get tax breaks also more money the state is not getting. They are laying of police officers in my area in Florida the article aslo states it would lower property taxes.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom