Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[bhg469]

Frozen in Norway pavilion is a lack of vision.


When has Epcot ever not been a family park?


How is that possible without blurring the lines of identity between theme parks which is the very essence of their creation? The beauty lies within the distinct diversity.

Its been my favorite since i was in my early teens. Granted I am a naturally inquisitive person..

 

[wdisney9000]

Disney is now going to have kids identify Arendelle with Norway and not portray that Arendelle is a fictional place. It's basically saying "Oh, Arendelle is in Norway in Disney, therefore it MUST be a real place!" I've already overheard college students ask where Arendelle is in Norway. If college students in a university are confused about the fictionality of Arendelle, I have no doubt little kids will, too. THAT'S why it belongs in Fantasyland! It'll give the kids the wrong impression.

The irony is that some people believe the cartooning of the pavilion will somehow inspire children to learn about Norway, even though any resemblance of it will be scarce.

I was not aware that children were so apt at indigenous identity through architecture.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Look, you really aren't understanding my posts and explanation. Yes, the original setting took place in China, but other adaptations move it to Arabia, not just Disney. Whether you know this or not or even comprehend it, in the time that Aladdin took place, Morocco was a part of this Arabian culture and in some standing "Arabia". The understanding of Arabia in modern times usually coincides with the Arabian Peninsula, which was not the same Arabia in the Medieval Times when Aladdin took place. Actually, if I pay 60k for a sound education and study under a published Medieval Historian, I have the right to say that in order to back up my salient points. I don't get my understanding from a mere 5 minutes of reading a questionable page, I get my information from a couple years of classes and lectures, which is my source that I will gladly prove to you if you're still not convinced of my facts and ideas.

Lastly, my point before you totally destroyed it was that Disney (let me say they did NOT say it was in Morocco, but that is the supposed place...somewhere in North Africa which was a part of Arabia at some point in time) used previous adaptations along with Arabian culture portrayed in the original tale in their movie. Frozen was a clearly Danish tale taken from Hans Anderson Christensen and placed it in Norway without other adaptations saying it was clearly Norwegian. If an Aladdin ride was placed in Morocco, I would still have a problem with it because the tale is not Moroccan. There is no problem with placing characters in their appropriate cultured places, but converting Norway into "Arendelle" defeats the point of the World Showcase.

You're not the only one who has studied at a university (and being published is kind of a base requirement to advance in the field). You're not alone in having knowledge outside of Wikipedia. As to the notion of Arabia, you are still confusing political, cultural and geographic terms. This is not some issue of contemporary terminology versus past terminology, because the terminology you keep mixing is still used today in the various contexts you keep describing. But if you are going to keep arguing in favor of such broad definitions then you need to accept that Denmark and Norway were a single country (and had been for a few centuries) when Andersen was alive and therefore his work should be fair game. As farms setting goes Frozen then is just as close because the actual political union was far more recent. If setting is the basis for including or excluding characters then it is one that is more favorable to Frozen being included.

 

[spacemt354]

If setting is the basis for including or excluding characters then it is one that is more favorable to Frozen being included.

No it's not.

What part of Arendelle is in Norway?

 

[lazyboy97o]

No it's not.

What part of Arendelle is in Norway?

What part of Morocco is named Agrabah and specifically looks like the sultanate depicted in Aladdin? As all of those in favor of the ride have repeatedly pointed out, the landscape is heavily influenced by Norway and the name is a twist on Arendal.

 

[spacemt354]

What part of Morocco is named Agrabah and specifically looks like the sultanate depicted in Aladdin? As all of those in favor of the ride have repeatedly pointed out, the landscape is heavily influenced by Norway and the name is a twist on Arendal.

I knew you would say that. Because it's the obvious trajectory.

You're arguing from a very narrow perspective and you're not seeing the big picture. Agrabah has been addressed and been discussed ad nauseam on here. Aladdin is not the best fit in Morocco, but compared to Frozen, it's more acceptable.

But it's an apples and oranges comparison you're making because one is a simple meet and greet that doesn't overstep the pavilion and the other is a hostile takeover by a fictitious land.

Edit: In addition, you're taking one wrong to justify another, much more severe wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I knew you would say that. Because it's the obvious trajectory.

You're arguing from a very narrow perspective and you're not seeing the big picture. Agrabah has been addressed and been discussed ad nauseam on here. Aladdin is not the best fit in Morocco, but compared to Frozen, it's more acceptable.

But it's an apples and oranges comparison you're making because one is a simple meet and greet that doesn't overstep the pavilion and the other is a hostile takeover by a fictitious land.

Edit: In addition, you're taking one wrong to justify another, much more severe wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not justify any wrongs, I am pointing out the lousiness of looking to setting as a basis for inclusion in World Showcase. Aladdin is a great fit for Morocco not because of where the story originated or versions have been set but because the character comes from Islamic folklore. That is a far better reason than because it takes place within a vast geographic area, especially since Denmark-Norway would be contemporary to the setting of Frozen.

 

[unkadug]

I don't think you understand what I'm arguing, much less my point. Yes, Denmark and Norway were once a single country, but not in modern times. We are teaching children the wrong geography even more so! A lot of people (Americans), sadly enough, don't know where some of the countries are. Search google for maps people tried to fill in of Europe, Africa, and Asia. Frozen shouldn't take over Norway. Like I said before and for you I will reiterate again, I have no problem with Frozen being a part of Norway, but just in a smaller scale.

Also, to your snooty university comment: I only say I studied that as my citation and where I get my ideas. I have as much knowledge, if not more, than a simple, collaborative Wikipedia page and I will refer to that (meaning my classes and my professors). So if anybody wants to question my judgement and knowledge, they can take it up with professionals.

I don't appreciate your tone, and you going on and on when I posted this a couple of days ago. Just end by concluding that we won't see eye-to-eye with certain perspectives.

Wait... so because it does fit in a historical context, but does not fit in today's societal context, the Company should behave differently and not put Frozen at Norway?

I don't think you have thought your argument out thoroughly.

 

[Ragetti]

I knew you would say that. Because it's the obvious trajectory.

You're arguing from a very narrow perspective and you're not seeing the big picture. Agrabah has been addressed and been discussed ad nauseam on here. Aladdin is not the best fit in Morocco, but compared to Frozen, it's more acceptable.

But it's an apples and oranges comparison you're making because one is a simple meet and greet that doesn't overstep the pavilion and the other is a hostile takeover by a fictitious land.

Edit: In addition, you're taking one wrong to justify another, much more severe wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Can't say I agree with this. When Frozen was such a HUGE hit, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Well Norway is gonna get a refresh." I don't really mind. Maelstrom was a favorite ride, but I wouldn't mind a GOOD Frozen ride there. The question is, will it be good, or a series of back projections with the occasional token animatronic? I mean, it's no surprise that Disney park is going to take advantage of a hugely popular Disney product. It's really a matter of the content quality.

And Aladdin in Morocco is fine. At least it is to me... but then EPCOT has never been my favorite park.

 

[bhg469]

Can't say I agree with this. When Frozen was such a HUGE hit, the first thing that popped into my mind was "Well Norway is gonna get a refresh." I don't really mind. Maelstrom was a favorite ride, but I wouldn't mind a GOOD Frozen ride there. The question is, will it be good, or a series of back projections with the occasional token animatronic? I mean, it's no surprise that Disney park is going to take advantage of a hugely popular Disney product. It's really a matter of the content quality.

And Aladdin in Morocco is fine. At least it is to me... but then EPCOT has never been my favorite park.

And that's the agruement, if you never liked epcot then that doesn't mean there is a need to reinvent it.

Aladdin is in Morocco but you would never know unless you venture through it. That's how a meet and greet in this place should be, but it's not. It's taking an expansion pad that could have been used for a country and making it a huge m&g for an audience that will go to that and leave the park. This is only for turnstile clicks.

EDIT: Not to mention, these people will already be going to MK. New, high volume attractions are the only long term solution to getting people to leave magic kingdom And visit other wdw parks.

 

[Ragetti]

And that's the agruement, if you never liked epcot then that doesn't mean there is a need to reinvent it.

Aladdin is in Morocco but you would never know unless you venture through it. That's how a meet and greet in this place should be, but it's not. It's taking an expansion pad that could have been used for a country and making it a huge m&g for an audience that will go to that and leave the park. This is only for turnstile clicks.

EDIT: Not to mention, these people will already be going to MK. New, high volume attractions are the only long term solution to getting people to leave magic kingdom And visit other wdw parks.

Well, the thing is, I would LIKE to be an EPCOT fan. I love the idea of EPCOT, just not so much a fan of the execution. On my vacations, I try to schedule 2 days in each park.... except EPCOT, which usually only gets a day. I'd like to see more engaging country-themed attractions... maybe I'm just not the target audience for that park, but I can't help but feel that it could be my favorite with a little more.... something. It definitely needs more actual attractions, that's for sure. I'm sorry to see Maelstrom go on one level (I loved the concept of the ride, and it was executed pretty well), though it was obviously getting long in the tooth, and the drilling platform seemed a bit out of step with the world today. SO I can't say I'm really FOR a Frozen overlay... I would personally prefer a another attraction.... Viking-themed! Something like Maelstrom, but MORE. But if that's not happening,I'd prefer a well executed Frozen attraction. And the Frozen focus won't last forever... Disney is just striking while the iron is hot.

 

[bhg469]

Well, the thing is, I would LIKE to be an EPCOT fan. I love the idea of EPCOT, just not so much a fan of the execution. On my vacations, I try to schedule 2 days in each park.... except EPCOT, which usually only gets a day. I'd like to see more engaging country-themed attractions... maybe I'm just not the target audience for that park, but I can't help but feel that it could be my favorite with a little more.... something. It definitely needs more actual attractions, that's for sure. I'm sorry to see Maelstrom go on one level (I loved the concept of the ride, and it was executed pretty well), though it was obviously getting long in the tooth, and the drilling platform seemed a bit out of step with the world today. SO I can't say I'm really FOR a Frozen overlay... I would personally prefer a another attraction.... Viking-themed! Something like Maelstrom, but MORE. But if that's not happening,I'd prefer a well executed Frozen attraction. And the Frozen focus won't last forever... Disney is just striking while the iron is hot.

That's the thing though, epcot could be awesome without the popular IP of fhrozen, they just need to keep other things fresh.

 

[spacemt354]

Wait... so because it does fit in a historical context, but does not fit in today's societal context, the Company should behave differently and not put Frozen at Norway?

I don't think you have thought your argument out thoroughly.

I don't think you actually understand the point.

In reality though, it doesn't really matter if you understand it or not, because it's not going to stop Frozen from taking over Norway...

 

[The Duck]

I wish that we could get some real updates on this project. Otherwise, it's going to be the same old endless debate on whether or not Frozen belongs in Epcot.

 

[unkadug]

I don't think you actually understand the point.

In reality though, it doesn't really matter if you understand it or not, because it's not going to stop Frozen from taking over Norway...

Good point.

 

[aladdin2007]

The whole point/issue about all of this is, Norway should be about Norway!

 

[unkadug]

The whole point/issue about all of this is, Norway should be about Norway!

Because that's what a World's Fair is all about.

 

[wdwfan757]

The whole point/issue about all of this is, Norway should be about Norway!

Norway is about Norway. You can get a nonstop flight out of JFK to Oslo for about $550 if you're lucky! Perhaps people should stop trying to get their "culture fix" by spending 20 minutes in a 0.004 square mile pavilion in walt disney world

 

[aladdin2007]

Norway is about Norway. You can get a nonstop flight out of JFK to Oslo for about $550 if you're lucky! Perhaps people should stop trying to get their "culture fix" by spending 20 minutes in a 0.004 square mile pavilion in walt disney world

so then lets rip out the theme and cultures of the other pavilions while were at it too, why have any of them there. They were put there to showcase a country, it was called World Showcase for a reason.

 

[wdwfan757]

so then lets rip out the theme and cultures of the other pavilions while were at it too, why have any of them there. They were put there to showcase a country, it was called World Showcase for a reason.

Okay, let's say they were to rip out the rides from the other countries and replace it them disney IPs... then Mexico would then have 2 table services restaurants, 1 counter service restaurant, a tequila bar, a couple of indoor things for kids to do, a couple of shops for adults to visit, and a cartoon ride... and the other countries wouldn't change at all because they didn't have rides to rip out in the first place.