Disney closing animation studio

[JLW11Hi]

Originally posted by Avenger23

Realisticly, people on the whole just are not interested in 2d animation as much as they have been in the past. Lilo and Stich was an exception for people's moods lately. Disney probaly made a mistake opening all these extra animation studios to begin with.

Hey, anyone remember "Dinosaur"?

....Anyone??

lol, j/k Avenger. You make some valid statements. Actually, I will admit that I have too little info on either side of the story to reach an opinion on the subject.

If you go over to Jim Hill Media, they've been doing a whole week's worth of reporting on the matter, and they pretty much sum the situation up. Even if you don't usually trust Jim Hill, these recent reports do give some valid arguments on both sides of the tale from both executives and the animators themselves.

Basically, the problem is not so much 2D vs 3D, its about flooding the market with their product. As one executive has put it in one e-mail on Jim's site, Disney has basically "glutted" their market by releasing movie after movie after movie, where as Pixar releases a movie every 1 1/2 to 2 years or so. Not only do they have more money to spend on producing a great, hard-worked film, but the Pixar films become sort of "exclusive", as they don not come out every other month.

As for Disney, studies show that most of the general public cannot tell the difference between a cheaply made direct-to-video movie and one of the feature length movies they produce. Plus, Disney always seems to be working on too many movies at a time. At least, this has all been reported on JimHillMedia.com.

It is sad to see so many talented people lose their well deserved jobs. I can only hope they can find work in other studios soon enough, but that would mean moving across the country, from Orlando to Burbank. Quite a crappy change if you ask me...

 

[Avenger23]

Hey, anyone remember "Dinosaur"?

I would tottaly agree with that, just in general people tend to stray from 2d stuff now. Dreamworks has had the same problems with it, and I agree it has a lot to do with to many movies coming out with not enough care given to the story.

Disney has always been 2D, hand drawn animation. That's how all of this got started.

I don't see how that matters, if a company doesn't evolve with consumers tastes, that company will die.

Cuts are being made in theme parks (in terms of employees, benefits, and hours) and most other divisions (at least in terms of benefits) of the company.

This may be true, I personally have no idea. I can say when I was there last August, the service was exceptional as usual, both at the resort I was at as well as the parks. So, in my mind if they can do just as good a job and provide that " Disney feel " with less staff, more power to them as a busniess.

I wonder how many people out there think Eisner is not greedy. He's got his millions.

I would suggest you consider the operation Eisner oversees. It is an amazingly large company. It is not just the Disney property. There are television networks, sports teams, movie studios ( animation and live action ) touring stage productions, charity foundations...the list goes on and on. To me, anyone that can take what the company was when he did and mold it into the giant it has become deserves whatever salary the board and shareholders want to give him. I for one would not turn down that salary if my job offered it to me.

Again, I am not saying it is or isn't his time to go, all people can become stagnet at a job, but for whatever faults he may have he, with some others is responsible for a huge amount of the good that the company has turned out over the time he has been there.

Don't be so fast to discard it, you may get someone even worse, who doesn't respect ANY of Walt's ideas or thought processes. A woman like that Cynthia Harris that recently left DL comes to mind.

Joel

 

[CSOM]

Originally posted by turkey leg boy
Eisner doesn't own the company. The company isn't losing money.

You don't just play with stockholders money. You also play with all the employees money. There is or rather should be a responsible to those that make the company and Eisner money.

No, the company isn't losing money, but that department isn't generating any profit either, it's actually creating a loss.

Eisner, while President of Walt Disney Corporation, has a fiscal responsibility to the shareholders and the shareholders only. Does this mean he can discredit employees and customers, no, because that wouldn't be good business sense, ie for the shareholders.

Walt Disney Co. doesn't employ people to be nice, doesn't make movies to give people jobs, etc. This is the reality of the business world. How many of you (us) went to see Brother Bear? I didn't. So if anything, we the consumer are to blame (or you could point that back to the story generators that didn't write a compelling movie, either way).

I don't agree with many of Eisner's moves, and would like to see him step down as much as anyone, but the reality is, that unless someone out there can buy it and turn it back into a private company rather than a publicly traded corporation, moves like this will need to be made. I just fear that the next President/CEO isn't even more financially driven....

I wonder where they could've used the $13Million Brother Bear lost them?

 

[General Grizz]

I saw Brother Bear and thoroughly enjoyed it.

However, the reason WHY Brother Bear didn't do as good as it could have - I do not think it failed - can be traced back to Eisner himself.

Go to any department store and take a look in the video section. "CINDERELLA II! LITTLE MERMAID II! PETER PAN II! JUNGLE BOOK II!"

Slowly but surely, these hundreds of Disney released films (for the "quick buck" that are quite cheap and without any due justice) are constantly being released.

Heck, the Lilo and Stitch TV series made me sick of the Lilo and Stitch film!

People didn't go see Brother Bear because Disney is losing its magic. Magic, in this case, relies on a slow release of films, not a gigantic bombardment week after week, all of which are in good quality.

Otherwise, 2-D animation will become "part of the norm," and children around the world will watch Disney like any other channel. . . any other film. And move on.

Thus, Disney wants to switch to 3-D now and focus in on that. What it SHOULD be doing is quitting the release of crap-quality DVDs and video sequels and putting out a giant blockbuster 2-D hit.

Michael Eisner called 2-D dead because he killed it.

 

[MartyMouse]

The crappy video sequels (and yes they are crappy) are at least keeping 2-D animators working.

What it comes down to is who cares if Disney fires it’s Florida animators (in a way I do because I enjoyed the animation tour) but did you all raise up when Pratt Whitney fired nearly 500 or when IBM laid off well over 250? I doubt it but that happened in Florida as well.

Walt was a dreamer and a visionary and I’m sure (99.9%) that he would have changed the animation department’s focus to 3-D animation long before Pixar ever left ILM. The only difference between Walt and Mike was that Walt would have tried to train his animators to use the computer before firing them (and I have no doubt if they didn’t learn he would have let them go).

Someone here stated that WDC is now publicly held no long under the control of one man and you should remember that. In Walt’s day he could make all the decisions from the heart, but now that there are stock holders Mike needs to keep what they want in mind when deciding the fate of WDC.

Oh by the way, where was Roy when Disney went public???

 

[MartyMouse]

Also yes I am sad to see the Florida Animation department close.

I also want to go on record as saying that 2-D animation is still better than 3-D!

 

[Carrousel Lover]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
What it SHOULD be doing is quitting the release of crap-quality DVDs and video sequels and putting out a giant blockbuster 2-D hit.

Michael Eisner called 2-D dead because he killed it.

Perhaps this is another reason Roy Disney and Michael Eisner did not see eye to eye. I always wonder who is their target audience- do they ever ask real consumers or is it their finance people alone? Scaling back a product and it's quality and presuming that the consumer is too clueless to know the difference is an interesting concept. I think they are simply focused on mass production at 17-19.99 a DVD vs. movie ticket and production is the way to go and then they can run it 1000 times on the Disney Channel? I suppose that was the cross marketing that Mr. Eisner referenced in a NYTimes article on this week.

The company is also continuing an effort to promote its products across all its divisions. For example, "Lilo & Stitch," the 2002 animated film from Walt Disney Pictures, has spawned a television show, a direct-to-home video movie and a coming theater sequel, Mr. Eisner said.

Can you say market saturation! Did no one voice - gee the things that I thought were special the first, second, third time I saw them will become overbearing if I see them every time I turn around - hmmm then when the Stich Alien Encounter opens will it still be "special". I do agree 100% about the direct to DVD part II movies. I truly dislike them - to me "direct to video" always has the connotation that it wasn't good enough to make it in the theater so you may want to "rent" it vs. waste your dough buying a ticket and surely don't purchase the thing! We've discussed "heart" in different threads and those are an example of lack of heart. A big part of the movie experience is going to the movies. Seeing the big screen, story etc. It was a big thing when a new Disney movie was released when I was a child. It seems they are doing 3D for the sake of 3D and missing the point and approach and planning Pixar takes with their 3D movies. I agree they are overexposed because they were greedy and looked for a quick fix/$ vs. long term profitability and planning.

 

[lebernadin]

Originally posted by Avenger23
if a company doesn't evolve with consumers tastes, that company will die.

I agree, just look at the giants such as GE and what they've been doing for 100+ years. GE isn't what they are today because of Edison's lightbulb. Disney isn't what it is today because of Mickey Mouse. That mouse led Walt into all these other areas, he didn't initially create Mickey Mouse as the symbol of a chain of theme parks across the world. But also, on the converse, most companies are in the position of dictating consumer tastes. We weren't born genetically pre-disposed to liking a talking duck, Mountain Dew, watching weeks of Olympics, building lincoln log houses etc..

MartyHouse and CSOM make some great points.

 

[imagineersrock]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
Michael Eisner called 2-D dead because he killed it.

wow........ that was genius. great points.. I think the whole thing is just one big, sad story.. but yeah i completely agree with you on the fact that they need to stop with the film-release suffication.... its just too much. - look back into the past with me if you will..

disney had simply always been known for creating amazing top-of-the-line films... one after the other, each incredible, successful and wonderful in their own way. whether it be the classics like cinderella or fantasia, etc... all the way up to my childhood which i think was perhaps the best disney-animation era: hit after hit: little mermaid, aladdin, beauty and the beast, the lion king.... it was always the big thing; to see what the next incredible animated film was to come.... that era is gone.
with the few exceptions of the occasional 'mulan' or 'emperors new groove' type films it seems that film after film has simply been overlapping one another and many don't even catch it when a good one actually does come by now. Disney needs to go back to what they were doing before and for all those of you who said they MUST switch to something other than 2D to stay successful -thats NOT true... all they have to do is go back, rethink, and simply do 2D right again.. honestly think about it.. after great films like aladdin, B&Tbeast, or lion king... -there has been no film IMO that has reached that 'lion king' standard

just my 1 cent..... i lost that other darn penny....

 

[Carrousel Lover]

Originally posted by MartyMouse
Someone here stated that WDC is now publicly held no long under the control of one man and you should remember that. In Walt’s day he could make all the decisions from the heart, but now that there are stock holders Mike needs to keep what they want in mind when deciding the fate of WDC.

Good point - Stockholder here (wish I was a major one) and I'm looking at my long term investment. Dividend payouts were this week and I'd like to enjoy that for a long time. From a financial view I still (and I've tried), can not get my arms/brain around ABC and what that purchase has done to the rest of the organization. If they were taken out of the equation would such dire decisions have been made? I don't have this answer and from my view it looks like ABC has been a leech on the other divisions vs. standing on it's own merits or demerits as the case may be. I don't like the cuts that have happened in all of the parks which in the case of California ended up in a fatality - hmm as a stockholder I think for the quick buck there is a heck of a lot of backlash and $$ (to me rightly so) that will need to be paid out to rectify those short sighted California decisions.

I think you made a very interesting remark about Walt and 3D - you are probably right about his interest in 3D and cutting edge - looking at his work with Dali is just fascinating . I think that being a visionary is just that having the ability to blend old/new, look to the future, analyze long term - have a true pulse of the situation vs. everyone being afraid to say "We have a problem here guys". Of course we are not in the closed door meeting and lobbying so we don't know whether this has occured but somehow I do not think that is the case. If you rule as a dictator your product will ultimately reflect that rule.

Great comments and observations though MartyMouse. True about layoff in your neck of the woods other than Disney - I wouldn't know about it unless it is covered in my neck of the woods just as most people don't hear about the layoffs here. I'm not saying that is right or wrong but I do have to agree and would have prefered that coverage over Brittney Spears wedding - ad nauseum

 

[prberk]

Several points:

As for Walt and innovation:

Walt was interested in innovation, and I believe he most certainly would have investigated and used 3D computer graphics, just as he used the computer to do audioanimatronics.

BUT Walt was equally interested in the balance of the art and history of the past. (Which is why there was both a Frontierland and a Tomorrowland.) He kept personal interest in hand-drawn feature animation (of The Jungle Book) even while still focusing much personal attention on EPCOT during the last two years of his life.

As for traditional vs CGI in modern tastes:

Yes, it is a trend, but do not forget the sales LAST YEAR of the Lion King special edition, even after it was already in many homes across the country. Not to mention Lilo and Stitch. It is still story and unique perception of quality that stands strongest after the opening weekend.

Griz is right when he points out that cheap Disney animation is confusing the public and lowering expectations for their traditional animation features. The public does not see Disney as special anymore when the cheap sequels cost the same at the store and look the same on the shelf. But Pixar continues to amaze, WITHOUT any cheap sequels. So the bar is kept high... bringing in more later.

And regarding "business sense"

The value of Disney Feature Animation films was never summed up by the initial box office take. Fantasia was a box office bomb, as was Alice in Wonderland; but both created characters (including sorcerer Mickey) that the company used as an investment that has paid out in dividends over and over and over....

The key is good story, good characters, high-quality exposition, and good INVESTMENT... not just short-term gain.

 

[General Grizz]

From Yahoo! News Front Page:

Disney Set to Close Animation Studio
Sat Jan 10, 4:56 PM ET

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - The Walt Disney Co. is expected to close a feature-animation studio in Orlando, Florida, on Monday, jeopardizing the jobs of nearly 260 animators, the Orlando Sentinel said.

Some artists will be transferred to Burbank, California, where Disney's corporate headquarters is located, but most of the employees, whose credits include the films "Brother Bear" and "Lilo & Stitch," are expected to lose their jobs, the paper said on Saturday.

Disney was a pioneer in hand-drawn animation, producing classic movies such as "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," "Cinderella" and "Fantasia."

In recent years, however, computer-generated animation has become increasingly popular as evidenced by movies like 2003's "Finding Nemo," made by Pixar Animation Studios.

The underwater adventure was the top-grossing theatrical release in the United States last year, generating about $340 million.

Disney distributed "Finding Nemo" and has a contract with the Emeryville, California-based company that expires at the end of next year.

No one at Disney headquarters was available to comment.

 

[marchofthecards]

Another spell to cast out the magic!

MICHAELEISNER WORLD
Where Magic Leaves
22


Bad Form!!!:fork:

 

[JBSLJames]

As an adult, I agree that the direct to video releases are substantially below par to the Theatrical releases; however, my kids still want the movie, and most likely will get it. So, from Disney's perspective, it makes sense on some projects to cut the corners.

 

[alice]

2d vs 3d

little kids can't tell the difference between computer animated and the old fashioned stuff. as long as there's a good story with characters we can relate too, it should be successful. i think disney should be more picky about what movies they make. ie treasure planet, teachers pet, home on the range!

the florida studios did bro bear, lilo and stitch, and mulan, which were all very successful. they should not be punished for the mistakes that other studios made.

 

[JBSLJames]

Haven't seen Brother Bear. After seeing the trailer, are the mooses (?) played by Bob and Doug McKenzie from the Great White North?

Take Off, eh. Like, we found this mouse in our beer, eh.

 

[TheOneVader]

I LOVED Lilo & Stitch, and Finding Nemo. In other words, they should continue doing both. Better technology is not nessecarily better.