Disney California Adventure: ‘I liked it better as a parking lot’ - OCR/SCNG

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster

>>Walt Disney all but rolls over in his grave and criticizes the mid-1990s decision to move forward with the Disney California Adventure theme park in the latest episode of “The Imagineering Story” on the Disney+ streaming service.


“You can tell when it’s wrong, you know,” Walt Disney says in a voiceover in the new Disney+ docuseries. “Lots of things I’ve started. If I just felt it wasn’t natural, if I got too deep, I abandoned it and started something else.”


The fourth episode of “The Imagineering Story,” debuting Friday, Nov. 29 on Disney+, takes a critical retrospective look at the development and creation of Disney California Adventure which opened to withering criticism in 2001.


“The Imagineering Story” describes the area of Anaheim surrounding Disneyland in the 1990s as a place full of politics with decaying infrastructure and difficult housing developments.


A Westcot version of Florida’s Epcot theme park was announced and ultimately canceled as a “second gate” next to Disneyland. Disney’s California Adventure was pitched as a new alternative for the 70-acre Disneyland parking lot.


Unlike Disneyland, Disney California Adventure would have no hub-and-spoke layout, no berm surrounding the park and no Disney characters. The goal of DCA: Bring a developer’s mentality and fiscal discipline to theme park planning.<<

Gee, when folks, including myself, said those things in a very public way, well, let's just say we didn't get the best of acceptance....

>>As conceived, the new theme park would offer a picture-postcard version of the California dream glorifying beach culture, Hollywood glamour and the state’s natural beauty. C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A was spelled out in nearly 12-foot-tall letters at the entrance. Visitors entered the park under a foreshortened Golden Gate Bridge. A pointy metal sun above a breaking wave served as California Adventure’s centerpiece.

“Much to our chagrin, it didn’t adhere to our fundamental design principles of theme park design,” Walt Disney Imagineering creative executive Kevin Rafferty says in the docuseries. “The first statement that you saw when you walked into the gate was the sharp sun. Frankly you could have seen that at a shopping mall in Newport Beach. It’s like, ‘Why is it here?’”

DCA was a business decision rather than a creative endeavor that cheapened Imagineering’s reputation, according to the fourth episode of “The Imagineering Story.”


“We were disappointing our guests,” Imagineering creative executive Tom Morris says in the docuseries. “We were kind of watering down the formula.”


California Adventure opened with a collection of off-the-shelf rides like the Maliboomer drop tower, Orange Stinger wave swings and Mulholland Madness wild mouse coaster.

“You can’t fool people,” Imagineering art director Kim Irvine says in the docuseries. “They can tell when things are being short-changed or you’re not paying attention to the details and putting the quality into something. Walt used to say, ‘If you do a good job, they’ll pay for it.’ And I think they started seeing that we weren’t doing that good of a job anymore.”


The sharpest critique of the ill-conceived park comes from the late Disney Imagineer John Hench: “I liked it better as a parking lot.”<<

>>Walt Disney gets the final word in “The Imagineering Story” segment on Disney California Adventure.


“If it doesn’t come out the way I feel it ought to come out I’m sick, I’m disappointed,” Walt Disney says in a voiceover in the docuseries. “Then I say, ‘Why the heck didn’t this come off? What was wrong? Where were we wrong to start with?’”<<
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
It's amazing how little of opening day DCA remains. With Disneyland, key landmarks like the Castle, train station, and Main Street have all survived relatively unchanged to someone who doesn't follow this stuff. Someone that visited Disneyland in the '60s would come back and say "yes, this is Disneyland" as they enter the park. DCA? If someone visited in '01 and came back today they'd think it's an entirely different place.

Perhaps DCA's worst mistake is the fact a ticket costs the exact same as Disneyland. If it ever wants to achieve it's own identity... If Disney ever wants someone to say "hey, let's go to California Adventure!", they have to give it a ticket price that makes sense.

As long as a 1 day 1 park to Disneyland costs the same as DCA, no one is ever gonna buy a 1 day 1 park to DCA.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
No its not.

Just my opinion. I value the full place setting a little more of Grizzly Peak.

Calico River Rapids was charming, but a little plastic-y. Some of the lighting effects aren't well integrated into the rocks. It lacks a significant drop and ending on the lift is less tension building. Plus just Knott's in general there are pretty significant backstage and competing sight line concerns.

That said... It's not like GRR is leaps and bounds better by any means, it definitely would benefit from animatronic bears. But with animatronic bears it would be leaps and bounds better.
 
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Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Just my opinion. I value the full place setting a little more of Grizzly Peak.

Calico River Rapids was charming, but a little plastic-y. Some of the lighting effects aren't well integrated into the rocks. It lacks a significant drop and ending on the lift is less tension building. Plus just Knott's in general there are pretty significant backstage and competing sight line concerns.

That said... It's not like GRR is leaps and bounds better by any means, it definitely would benefit from animatronic bears. But with animatronic bears it would be leaps and bounds better.
GGR is as sterile as GE. CCR has Big Foot in its cave.
 
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Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
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>>Walt Disney all but rolls over in his grave and criticizes the mid-1990s decision to move forward with the Disney California Adventure theme park in the latest episode of “The Imagineering Story” on the Disney+ streaming service.


“You can tell when it’s wrong, you know,” Walt Disney says in a voiceover in the new Disney+ docuseries. “Lots of things I’ve started. If I just felt it wasn’t natural, if I got too deep, I abandoned it and started something else.”


The fourth episode of “The Imagineering Story,” debuting Friday, Nov. 29 on Disney+, takes a critical retrospective look at the development and creation of Disney California Adventure which opened to withering criticism in 2001.


“The Imagineering Story” describes the area of Anaheim surrounding Disneyland in the 1990s as a place full of politics with decaying infrastructure and difficult housing developments.


A Westcot version of Florida’s Epcot theme park was announced and ultimately canceled as a “second gate” next to Disneyland. Disney’s California Adventure was pitched as a new alternative for the 70-acre Disneyland parking lot.


Unlike Disneyland, Disney California Adventure would have no hub-and-spoke layout, no berm surrounding the park and no Disney characters. The goal of DCA: Bring a developer’s mentality and fiscal discipline to theme park planning.<<

Gee, when folks, including myself, said those things in a very public way, well, let's just say we didn't get the best of acceptance....

>>As conceived, the new theme park would offer a picture-postcard version of the California dream glorifying beach culture, Hollywood glamour and the state’s natural beauty. C-A-L-I-F-O-R-N-I-A was spelled out in nearly 12-foot-tall letters at the entrance. Visitors entered the park under a foreshortened Golden Gate Bridge. A pointy metal sun above a breaking wave served as California Adventure’s centerpiece.

“Much to our chagrin, it didn’t adhere to our fundamental design principles of theme park design,” Walt Disney Imagineering creative executive Kevin Rafferty says in the docuseries. “The first statement that you saw when you walked into the gate was the sharp sun. Frankly you could have seen that at a shopping mall in Newport Beach. It’s like, ‘Why is it here?’”

DCA was a business decision rather than a creative endeavor that cheapened Imagineering’s reputation, according to the fourth episode of “The Imagineering Story.”


“We were disappointing our guests,” Imagineering creative executive Tom Morris says in the docuseries. “We were kind of watering down the formula.”


California Adventure opened with a collection of off-the-shelf rides like the Maliboomer drop tower, Orange Stinger wave swings and Mulholland Madness wild mouse coaster.

“You can’t fool people,” Imagineering art director Kim Irvine says in the docuseries. “They can tell when things are being short-changed or you’re not paying attention to the details and putting the quality into something. Walt used to say, ‘If you do a good job, they’ll pay for it.’ And I think they started seeing that we weren’t doing that good of a job anymore.”


The sharpest critique of the ill-conceived park comes from the late Disney Imagineer John Hench: “I liked it better as a parking lot.”<<

>>Walt Disney gets the final word in “The Imagineering Story” segment on Disney California Adventure.


“If it doesn’t come out the way I feel it ought to come out I’m sick, I’m disappointed,” Walt Disney says in a voiceover in the docuseries. “Then I say, ‘Why the heck didn’t this come off? What was wrong? Where were we wrong to start with?’”<<

When I first heard of the imagineering series, I thought it was going to be part infomercial part propaganda. It’s great they are showing more reality and facts.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
When I first heard of the imagineering series, I thought it was going to be part infomercial part propaganda. It’s great they are showing more reality and facts.

I was talking about tis with my wife. She didn't know me until around 2005, so she knows some of the DCA early year history, but she first visited DCA in 2003.

She really doesn't know the Westcot plans, the revised DCA plans, the deals with the city to make it happen, then the building and opening of DCA. I, on the other hand, lived it and was deep in it.

But I was saying how the show really let out WDI's feelings. And yes, I had discussions, or better described as Rants from many of them. What is in the show is a toned down version, but matches what happened. It took a change in Senior Management to finally decide that DCA 1.0, along with the minor adjustments in the early years was a total failure to get to version 3.X and alas, looks like version 4 will be an overall drop in quality with Avenges Campus opening. Looks like the forgot what happened 20 years ago already...

Which is a shame.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
Just my opinion. I value the full place setting a little more of Grizzly Peak.

Calico River Rapids was charming, but a little plastic-y. Some of the lighting effects aren't well integrated into the rocks. It lacks a significant drop and ending on the lift is less tension building. Plus just Knott's in general there are pretty significant backstage and competing sight line concerns.

That said... It's not like GRR is leaps and bounds better by any means, it definitely would benefit from animatronic bears. But with animatronic bears it would be leaps and bounds better.

Agreed - even with the new additions, CRR is still a low-end water raft ride while GRR is a beautiful, huge attraction and frankly that area was the best part of 1.0. Just look at the scale with the mountain, rockwork, trees, mill with spinning wheel, etc. Yes, of course it would be better with animatronics along the way, but it is a full, beautiful attraction.

I would put Popeye's > GRR > Magic Mountain's Roaring Rapids > CRR > Kali at AK.
 
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ObscurityPoint

Well-Known Member
What frustrates me the most after viewing the last episode of the Imagineering Story (besides Westcot getting scrapped) is that behind the scenes footage of them in teams giving out their ideas. In one shot we could clearly see an idea for a park that’s themed to America- elements of Chicago, California, the East Coast, stuff like that were all posted on the board, yet they still went for a California themed theme park in California.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
Except for the Queue and lack of a Pre Show. The attraction looks like crap, until the seats lift off he floor, and then the weird exit....

Totally agree - and the fact that WDI couldn’t decide what the ride is.

Is it a hang glider ride over CA?
Why is the history of aviation on the walls if I’m going on a hang glider?
Why is their a commercial airline pre-show video for a hang glider ride?

But once the lights go off the ride is magic and is a wow on repeated viewings.

The pre-show, exit, etc. however, is classic DCA 1.0.
 

Sailor310

Well-Known Member
I was in the aerospace business. Spent a lot of time at the AF Rocket Propulsion Lab in the hills overlooking Edwards AFB--Condor Flats. Have met some of the folks on the walls in Soarin'. My dad had met some others. I worked on some of the projects on the walls. The plain concrete and fake explosion-proof covers on the lights gave a nice hint of Edwards. I'm probably on my own, but I liked the queue.
Of course really like)d) the ride.
 

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