Disney and Universal urge Newsom to ‘stop delaying’ and let California theme parks ‘open now’ - OCR/SCNG

chadwpalm

chadwpalm

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Disney Irish said:
Yep, this fallacy that Disneyland will just automatically be allowed to reopen if the executive orders are somehow overturned is laughable. The Department of Health and pretty soon OSHA can order any business closed for health reasons, specifically related to COVID.
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You just excused one fallacy for another. The difference between a gubernatorial executive order that covers the entire state is apples and oranges compared to the power of the DOH or OSHA. Neither of them has the power to blanketly close all the businesses in California as the executive order can. They can only review one place of business at a time and make a decision based on that. You're also assuming that the DOH or OSHA would hold the exact same scrutiny as the Governer's office when it comes to the safety of opening up a theme park. This is all conjecture at this point.
 
L

LastoneOn

Well-Known Member
cmwade77 said:
Well, also it should be noted OSHA doesn't actually exist in California; however, DOSH does. Same basic concept, but different entity; however, your point is accurate.
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Around here OSHA is OSHA by name or not, Fed or State. We just call it OSHA MSHA EPA whatever, and leave the details to the people in the office. We've got real work to do! :)
 
Disney Irish

Disney Irish

Premium Member
chadwpalm said:
You just excused one fallacy for another. The difference between a gubernatorial executive order that covers the entire state is apples and oranges compared to the power of the DOH or OSHA. Neither of them has the power to blanketly close all the businesses in California as the executive order can. They can only review one place of business at a time and make a decision based on that. You're also assuming that the DOH or OSHA would hold the exact same scrutiny as the Governer's office when it comes to the safety of opening up a theme park. This is all conjecture at this point.
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Actually there is a law about to go into effect that gives Cal/OSHA the authority to shutdown a site, including a theme park, specifically for COVID. So its not conjecture.
 
Stevek

Stevek

Well-Known Member
Gov. Newsom says reopening guidelines for theme parks will come tomorrow, suggests they will be distinguished or staggered by theme park type (maybe by whether they kill animals or caricature them?).

 
Askimosita

Askimosita

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
After listening to Newsom speak, it doesn’t sound hopeful for tomorrow. He reiterated the “bear in mind we are taking a slow and stringent approach with health and safety in mind” and said he is separating smaller parks from larger. Knowing a big sticking point he had was out of state travel, I can totally see this being a smaller parks open first, and big parks way later type thing.
 
Disney Irish

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Askimosita said:
After listening to Newsom speak, it doesn’t sound hopeful for tomorrow. He reiterated the “bear in mind we are taking a slow and stringent approach with health and safety in mind” and said he is separating smaller parks from larger. Knowing a big sticking point he had was out of state travel, I can totally see this being a smaller parks open first, and big parks way later type thing.
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What I suspect it'll be, smaller parks allowed to reopen in Red, and larger parks like Disneyland will be allowed to reopen in Orange.
 
C

cmwade77

Well-Known Member
Disney Irish said:
What I suspect it'll be, smaller parks allowed to reopen in Red, and larger parks like Disneyland will be allowed to reopen in Orange.
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It could very well also be the opposite, simply because smaller parks don't have the money or capability to enforce social distancing the same way Disney, Universal, Knott's, Sea World or Legoland can.
 
Disney Irish

Disney Irish

Premium Member
cmwade77 said:
It could very well also be the opposite, simply because smaller parks don't have the money or capability to enforce social distancing the same way Disney, Universal, Knott's, Sea World or Legoland can.
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Maybe, but doubt it. Given the hesitancy to have large crowds from around the country descending upon larger theme parks they'd be more likely to require to wait until the county reaches Orange tier.
 
C

cmwade77

Well-Known Member
Disney Irish said:
Maybe, but doubt it. Given the hesitancy to have large crowds from around the country descending upon larger theme parks they'd be more likely to require to wait until the county reaches Orange tier.
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It is honestly a toss up as to which they think is safer, this is going to get interesting. Look in the other threads that are politics, as there is more about the trial coming up as well. It will also be interesting to see what the delineation is between small and large parks.

Another option might be to allow larger theme parks to open in Red, if they would enforce the 120 mile rule until their county is in at least Orange. Honestly, I don't think anyone can even begin to try to think in a manner as strange as Newsom.
 
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Disney Irish

Disney Irish

Premium Member
cmwade77 said:
It is honestly a toss up as to which they think is safer, this is going to get interesting. Look in the other threads that are politics, as there is more about the trial coming up as well.
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I know what you think will happen with this trial. But I'm not sure the result will be as you expect even if the trial goes as you want. For a variety of reason there is still many outcomes that are not being thought of.
 
C

cmwade77

Well-Known Member
Disney Irish said:
I know what you think will happen with this trial. But I'm not sure the result will be as you expect even if the trial goes as you want. For a variety of reason there is still many outcomes that are not being thought of.
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Not really, there aren't many options on this one. Either Newsom wins (highly unlikely) or looses, but if he looses, the extent to which he looses may vary. Here are the scenarios:
  • He wins on all accounts and everything is declared perfectly legal (again highly unlikely)
  • One or more of his executive orders are declared illegal (small victory here for the good guys, but definitely a blow to Newsom who has to rethink everything). This in and of itself won't reopen anything immediately, but does change things.
  • All of his executive orders are declared illegal. This is a larger victory, but again doesn't immediately reopen anything.
  • The entire act is declared unconstitutional, which then invalidates his state of emergency as well, letting everything reopen immediately unless a stay of judgement is issued while Newsom appeals.
Honestly, if you read through the lawsuit, those are the only four options available short of the court writing their own laws, which isn't unheard of these days, but this judge seems very much a by the books judge and rules based on how the law is written.
 
Disney Irish

Disney Irish

Premium Member
cmwade77 said:
Not really, there aren't many options on this one. Either Newsom wins (highly unlikely) or looses, but if he looses, the extent to which he looses may vary. Here are the scenarios:
  • He wins on all accounts and everything is declared perfectly legal (again highly unlikely)
  • One or more of his executive orders are declared illegal (small victory here for the good guys, but definitely a blow to Newsom who has to rethink everything). This in and of itself won't reopen anything immediately, but does change things.
  • All of his executive orders are declared illegal. This is a larger victory, but again doesn't immediately reopen anything.
  • The entire act is declared unconstitutional, which then invalidates his state of emergency as well, letting everything reopen immediately unless a stay of judgement is issued while Newsom appeals.
Honestly, if you read through the lawsuit, those are the only four options available short of the court writing their own laws, which isn't unheard of these days, but this judge seems very much a by the books judge and rules based on how the law is written.
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I read the summary that is on the site you posted. But again there are many other outcomes not being thought of. I'm not going to go over them here, but there are other things that can happen. So I just leave it at that.
 
Magic Feather

Magic Feather

Well-Known Member
cmwade77 said:
It could very well also be the opposite, simply because smaller parks don't have the money or capability to enforce social distancing the same way Disney, Universal, Knott's, Sea World or Legoland can.
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Honestly, this seems like a fair enough best case scenario. It unfortunately stays bad for Uni Hollywood (I think LA is still solidly in purple), but OC seems to be nearing Orange to where they could open by the end of the year.
I’m mostly interested in where the line gets drawn. Whether mid-sized regional parks like SWSD, Legoland, SFMM, and Knott’s are our with the big boys or the smaller parks.
 
C

cmwade77

Well-Known Member
Magic Feather said:
Honestly, this seems like a fair enough best case scenario. It unfortunately stays bad for Uni Hollywood (I think LA is still solidly in purple), but OC seems to be nearing Orange to where they could open by the end of the year.
I’m mostly interested in where the line gets drawn. Whether mid-sized regional parks like SWSD, Legoland, SFMM, and Knott’s are our with the big boys or the smaller parks.
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I would propose the following guidelines personally (assuming this stupid tier stuff sticks around):
  • Purple Tier
    • Limited to 15% Capacity
    • Outdoor Operations Only (can allow indoor shopping and going indoor long enough to order and pick up food)
    • Must enforce 120 mile rule
  • Red Tier
    • Limited to 25% Capacity
    • Outdoor Operations only OR Enforce 120 mile rule
    • No indoor queuing
  • Orange Tier
    • Limited to 40% Capacity
    • Indoor and outdoor operations allowed
    • Indoor queuing limited to 10% capacity
  • Yellow tier
    • Limited to 50% Capacity
    • All operations allowed, including large scale shows like Fantasmic!, Fireworks and Parades
    • Indoor queuing limited to 30% Capacity
All tiers above require masks, etc.

Once all is completely said and done:
  • Limited to 75% Capacity
  • No additional requirements
Now admittedly the 75% capacity is a pipe dream, but really it is what needs to happen, as all of the theme parks (not just Disney) have been getting too overcrowded, so it would be good to bring the max capacity down permanently.
 
George Lucas on a Bench

George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
mickEblu said:
They should have done this in July instead of crying.
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Probably wouldn't have made a difference. Gav Gav wants parks closed. Gotta shut 'em down. I agree though that they should have stopped whining. I'll go ever further that if they're getting rid of Cast Members in huge numbers, the ones who signed petitions to remained closed should be let go of first.
 

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