Demand Based Pricing Will Be A Reality - Let's Be Objective

[ShoalFox]

It's just applying basic laws of economics! Infinite demand with finite supply. As guest demand for tickets increases while the supply of Walt Disney World Resort remains the same, the price of admission should naturally increase. While the demand for tickets has a general tendency to increase, there are still lapses in demand during the year and prices should be adjusted accordingly. Unfortunately there aren't any "dead" times of year at WDW anymore, but those times are still significantly less crowded than say, Christmas through New Years or the middle of summer.

I am in full support of the new pricing scheme.

 

[Raineman]

I struggle with this. Do people deserve a trip to Disney? Disney (or any vacation) is a luxury. Vacations are an expense for people with enough disposable income to go.

There are billions of people outside the US that can't even afford food , so I can't feel sorry for people, particularly in the US missing a trip to Disney. It's just life. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's not fair for 75% of the world to be born outside of the US/Europe/Japan and not be afforded the same opportunities we have.

You can extend that argument to anything in life. If BMW increases prices, are they narrowing their market for the people buying cars and should we lament them?

People with most money get to do the most things and do them more often. That's just simple economics and applies to every purchase in the economy. Airfare, hotels, restaurants....any destination. Even the price of food increases.

We can blame Disney for is not expanding enough, closing attractions, and moving too slowly on current projects.

We can blame Disney for moving beyond at least having an option for those with somewhat lesser means to enjoy what WDW has to offer. And I have to disagree that vacations are a luxury - the destination/options of the vacation taken can be a luxury, but there should always be a desired vacation option that is not considered a luxury. Enjoyment of life/recreation/etc. is not a luxury, but almost a necessity for a healthy life. And I'm pretty sure that the original intent of WDW was to allow people from all income levels and walks of life to enjoy it.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I think it is only a matter of time until Disney adopts a model whereby if you want to go to the parks you will need to stay on property. Right now there are roughly 30,000 hotel rooms on Disney property with probably about an average of 2.5 to 3 guests per room. So in theory, at capacity about 75,000 to 90,000 guests. Add in the Bonnet Creek properties, Four Seasons and Disney Springs hotels and you are probably at about 100,000 to 110,000 guests.

Disney could easily build 3 to 4 more value/moderate hotels and another 1/2 deluxe. That could push capacity near about 125,000 to 140,000 and they could invite some major chains into the Western Way location if they ever decide to build that out. You could be looking at close to or slightly over 150,000 guests on Disney property. Which would be spread out amongst the parks, the resorts, Disney Springs, and other areas like Fort Wilderness and Boardwalk.

There would be no more park hoppers or annual passes. Passes would be driven by length of stay and bundled into your hotel price and controlled through Magic Band.

The hotel prices would then be the trigger on seasonality and In essence be a reflection of supply and demand. You would then see prices of $350-$500 a night for All Stars, probably $750-$1000 a night for Yacht Club and $1250-$1500 a night for the Grand Floridian.

For the record as an AP holder I'm not a big fan of this structure, just seems to be where it's all heading.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I struggle with this. Do people deserve a trip to Disney? Disney (or any vacation) is a luxury. Vacations are an expense for people with enough disposable income to go.

There are billions of people outside the US that can't even afford food , so I can't feel sorry for people, particularly in the US missing a trip to Disney. It's just life. Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's not fair for 75% of the world to be born outside of the US/Europe/Japan and not be afforded the same opportunities we have.

You can extend that argument to anything in life. If BMW increases prices, are they narrowing their market for the people buying cars and should we lament them?

People with most money get to do the most things and do them more often. That's just simple economics and applies to every purchase in the economy. Airfare, hotels, restaurants....any destination. Even the price of food increases.

We can blame Disney for is not expanding enough, closing attractions, and moving too slowly on current projects.

Oh geez, not all this again.

Let's not forget that you were the one advocating for $200 a day ticket prices not so long ago. It looks like you may soon get your wish.

May I at least request that they put a giant sandbox by the gateway to the park so that while the financially elite get a park all to themselves, us po-folk can at least build castles in a box full of of dirt.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

We can blame Disney for moving beyond at least having an option for those with somewhat lesser means to enjoy what WDW has to offer. And I have to disagree that vacations are a luxury - the destination/options of the vacation taken can be a luxury, but there should always be a desired vacation option that is not considered a luxury. Enjoyment of life/recreation/etc. is not a luxury, but almost a necessity for a healthy life. And I'm pretty sure that the original intent of WDW was to allow people from all income levels and walks of life to enjoy it.

This is getting off topic, but the fact is that most people in the world cannot afford to forego several weeks worth of wages in a year so that they may travel somewhere else just to spend even more money. Vacations are absolutely a luxury of our privileged lives, and I think it's very important that we all realize that.

"Enjoyment of life/recreation/etc" is almost always accomplished with something other than our idealistic American Dream vacations.

If Walt's original intent was to build something that everyone from every socioeconomic status could enjoy, he would have built a public park. You are NOT entitled to a Walt Disney World vacation.

If you want to criticize the value you are receiving relative to the price you are paying, then by all means please do so, but we have to move beyond this concept that Disney has the responsibility of being inclusive to all income levels.

 

[DHoy]

Analyzing the value to similar entertainment experiences. To get season tickets for ohio state football, you need to be a member of buckeye club or the presidents club which requires an upfront donation of $1000-$2500. Then you can purchase tickets for 8 games at roughly $80-$100 a piece based on variable pricing. Then you have parking on campus of $25 a game. An annual pass for Disney seems like a cheap value compared to season football tickets.

I think looking at entertainment on a macro scale, the demand for entertainment experiences is growing in our society and outpacing the current supply. Though not everyone has the disposable income to feed their own personal want for these experiences a sector of our society is large enough to pack dozens of 100,000 seat stadiums every Saturday and Sunday plus regional and national amusement parks.

In my opinion I don't think the price increases at the current time will stop demand, but overtime I believe that continued increases along with a variable pricing model could begin to ease the rate at which demand is growing for the Disney park experiences. The honest truth is that a trip to Orlando is a luxury vacation whether you want to believe it or not. Whether Walt intended the parks to be for the common man or not a park has a fixed capacity and its a whole lot easier to turn people away when they're at home then when they get to the gate and find out the park is at capacity. A PR battle over high prices is a lot easier than a PR nightmare over overcrowded and closed down parks due to capacity. Unfortunately Disney is popular and no one is happy with high prices but just imagine how miserable everyone would be with $50 tickets and 90k packed into MK everyday with parking lot redirects. If you honestly look at the attendance growth magic kingdom is nearing a point where possibly in the next decade they could have that situation and prices are a way to ease the trend before that point is reached.

 

[DManRightHere]

I think fixed and dynamic pricing can achieve the same goal.

I believe that purposefully reducing attendance is suicide for a business, then again, businesses can also go under from growing too fast. I do not believe Disney fits this scenario.

I'm intrigued by the idea, but generally I don't like it.

 

[EOD K9]

Speaking of people not being able to afford Disney, how about if they go to tiered limited attraction pricing. You would pay 60 bucks per person. This would get you an E-Ride, and two other non-Es of your choice. You are entitled to one QS meal location of your choice. All these must be accomplished in 3.5 hours and then you will be removed from the park. How is that for value so that everyone can enjoy a piece of the World?
****sarcasm****

 

[wdwfan4ver]

As with everything, the parks are what you make of them. Skipping a bunch of stuff because you don't like it doesn't make it a one day park.

While it is true that some people skip a bunch of stuff because they don't like it, keep in mind there are people that can't do all attraction due to a medical condition such as a bad Heart or a bad back as an example.

Take a look at DHS right now as an example, 3 of the 5 rides are thrill rides and are not made for people with past heart problems. It is true that there are other attractions for those people, but that would be cut down if LMA closes without DHS gaining a new attraction.

 

[bethymouse]

Stop the insanity! It is all too complicated for me! I will save $$ and go to Disney when and if I am able to! Yikes! Not too many people have a choice as to when they can go (teachers). This pricing seems to be a bit unfair to me in those regards.

 

[Chef Mickey]

While it is true that some people skip a bunch of stuff because they don't like it, keep in mind there are people that can't do all attraction due to a medical condition such as a bad Heart or a bad back as an example.

Take a look at DHS right now as an example, 3 of the 5 rides are thrill rides and are not made for people with past heart problems. It is true that there are other attractions for those people, but that would be cut down if LMA closes without DHS gaining a new attraction.

While true, I consider that a more "special case" than the general rule. I see a lot of people that complain EPCOT only has 1 or 2 rides worth doing and they have no interest in shopping or eating at the countries. That is totally fine, but again, that's their choice and doesn't mean the other attractions have no merit.

Could Imagination! be better? Of course! Could the Universe of Energy use an update? Yes. Do I miss either of them? No way!

 

[Chef Mickey]

Oh geez, not all this again.

Let's not forget that you were the one advocating for $200 a day ticket prices not so long ago. It looks like you may soon get your wish.

May I at least request that they put a giant sandbox by the gateway to the park so that while the financially elite get a park all to themselves, us po-folk can at least build castles in a box full of of dirt.

I am advocating $200 tickets if it means the quality and crowds are addressed. Turns out I was right and ahead of the curve. Disney seems to agree, at least partly. In fact, I'd advocate $300/day tickets if that's what it takes.

This isn't about being financially elite....not even close. A $200 park ticket isn't going to break anyone or prove person A is richer than person B. This is about controlling the out of control while also understanding Disney isn't going to take a 40% decrease in revenue. They will simply charge more to those they let in and in turn, the people there get the experience they expect from Disney. It's a win win.

The "pricing people out" argument is WAY more annoying/tired than charging what the market will bear, something every industry does and is just a fact of life and simple economics. No one deserves a trip to Disney and as I said, there is always someone with more money who can play harder/more often.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I agree - but the flip side is ANY increase in guest count will add guests to MK. No one is coming to WDW and NOT going to MK.
All 4 parks need added capacity IMHO.

Epcot gaining Capacity is a whole different matter than the other 3. The space Epcot currently has buildings on is fine without using the World Showcase Expansion plots. Using the World Showcase expansion plots shouldn't be the first priority for Epcot anyway and is the 3rd priority for the park.

The problem with the space Epcot has currently is not all of it is open to the general public all year round in terms of buildings. The empty buildings Epcot has is being used for festivals or corporate events. Wonders of Life is only used for Festivals Epcot has for regular guests, or being used for corporate events. Odyssey hasn't been open to the general public a lot since the building closed except for the Festivals. Innoventions West is a waste of space right with a lot of stuff closed and needs to be used for new attractions.

Epcot in Future World has issues in Universe of Energy and Imagination Pavilion. The problem with Universe of Energy is the crowds have gotten smaller for it and the ride part has a big problem. The ride has a voice over for Ellen where the AA of Ellen is supposed to be, but that AA of Ellen isn't there anymore!. Fixing Universe of Energy is a must because of the building is designed to be a people eater, but it doesn't have the amount inside it as it used.

Imagination Pavilion needs a redo also. If the whole Pavilion gets fixed, it would be great for drawing crowds into the Pavilion. The Figment ride right now isn't that great for attendance although it is not quite as bad as a couple years ago.

 

[Chef Mickey]

We can blame Disney for moving beyond at least having an option for those with somewhat lesser means to enjoy what WDW has to offer. And I have to disagree that vacations are a luxury - the destination/options of the vacation taken can be a luxury, but there should always be a desired vacation option that is not considered a luxury. Enjoyment of life/recreation/etc. is not a luxury, but almost a necessity for a healthy life. And I'm pretty sure that the original intent of WDW was to allow people from all income levels and walks of life to enjoy it.

I'm sure the kids in 3rd world countries would love to even be able to leave their village, for just 1 day. I totally disagree that any trip should be viewed as a necessity for a healthy lifestyle. It's just laughable. SO MANY people outside the US are not even able to eat, let alone travel. This is just ridiculous.

WDW is not a charity. It's a business.

 

[1023]

I'll just leave this here in case anyone else feels like watering.

*1023*

 

[BuddyThomas]

I am advocating $200 tickets if it means the quality and crowds are addressed. Turns out I was right and ahead of the curve. Disney seems to agree, at least partly. In fact, I'd advocate $300/day tickets if that's what it takes........No one deserves a trip to Disney and as I said, there is always someone with more money who can play harder/more often.

"No one deserves a trip to Disney."

Wow. Why haven't they hired you for their marketing team yet? You could make it their new slogan.

And now you want $300 tickets? Per day? "If that's what it take"? If that's what it takes for what? To keep everyone but you and your select elite few out of the park?

Unreal.

 

[yensid67]

Wonder what Walt would do if he were still alive? He wanted everyone to enjoy the parks. If they keep raising the prices eventually they may be able to control the crowds, but the only people who will be able to afford the tickets, hotels are those who have money to burn.
I agree with the one post saying that they should consider opening a 3rd Magic Kingdom park, and depending upon where it is located, have a 2nd and maybe 3rd gate to this park. Maybe somewhere in the Midwest and then have a 2nd park devoted with west/east coast living. Disneyland could reflect Midwest/central US and while at Disney World could reflect the west and mid west part of the US. I never understood why they have the California Adventure Park in California!? Don't they know what a California adventure would be!? Florida should have the California Adventure and California should have the Florida Adventure with Alligators and things associated with Florida that they don't have in California! But I guess I am getting into another thread topic! (Sorry for getting off topic)

 

[DManRightHere]

I am advocating $200 tickets if it means the quality and crowds are addressed. Turns out I was right and ahead of the curve. Disney seems to agree, at least partly. In fact, I'd advocate $300/day tickets if that's what it takes.

This isn't about being financially elite....not even close. A $200 park ticket isn't going to break anyone or prove person A is richer than person B. This is about controlling the out of control while also understanding Disney isn't going to take a 40% decrease in revenue. They will simply charge more to those they let in and in turn, the people there get the experience they expect from Disney. It's a win win.

The "pricing people out" argument is WAY more annoying/tired than charging what the market will bear, something every industry does and is just a fact of life and simple economics. No one deserves a trip to Disney and as I said, there is always someone with more money who can play harder/more often.

How do you feel about "skip the line" passes? I really dislike those tactics with a passion and I applaud Disney for sticking with a fair for all system.

I can understand your meaning that raising prices for all is still equal.

 

[SandraAnn]

Assuming they go this route, I can't see how they are going to execute it. Will you have to log on and pick your days and then get the price? And then will those tickets only work on those days? What if you go up to the gate with tickets from a low-cost day and it's a high-cost day? Do you get turned away? Do the lines at Guest Services back up into infinity with people trying to do adjustments? Will MDE finally implode, permanently stuck on a picture of Stitch or Donald?

 

[216bruce]

"No one deserves a trip to Disney."

Wow. Why haven't they hired you for their marketing team yet? You could make it their new slogan.

And now you want $300 tickets? Per day? "If that's what it take"? If that's what it takes for what? To keep everyone but you and your select elite few out of the park?

Unreal.

First...Yay!!!
Second..."Disney....where economic Darwinism happens."