flynnibus
Premium Member
No
Supporting the status quo is bad as well.
You might as well say 'well *i* didn't make the Jim Crowe laws so I wasn't racist'
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Debunking "evil Disney" accusations
- Thread starter Walt Disney1955
- Start date
No
Supporting the status quo is bad as well.
You might as well say 'well *i* didn't make the Jim Crowe laws so I wasn't racist'
draybook
Well-Known Member
After page 4 I quit reading. I'm so sick of hearing about racism. I'm equally sick of hearing about racism and only hearing black and white involved in the conversation. Every race has been victim to racism get over it. I'm also tired of hearing about slavery. Slavery affects today's "African American" about as much as the Trail of Tears and the Alamo affects me.
Let's try looking past skin color and just continue our love for Disney as a human race.
Let's try looking past skin color and just continue our love for Disney as a human race.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
Walt was a member in good standing of the Riviera Country Club (Pacific Palisades) from the 1930's until his death. The club was segregated. Of course, everything else was segregated too. However, if Walt was so pure, he could have not been a member of the country club. He could have taken a stand and said I will not be a member of a segregated club. However, he just went with the flow. Racism was accepted and normal in the USA during his life.
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
Segregation is still common in the USA. By way of explanation, let me relate a little story.
When I was a young person and was ready to leave home, I decided to rent an apartment. I lived in a major metro area and there were many apartment buildings. I called at least 35 different apartment buildings inquiring about renting an apartment and I got the same reply from each. Sorry, no vacancy.
I related the story to my mother and she laughed and told me to go in person to the apartment building that I most wanted and make my inquiry. She was right! First building I went to, they were more than happy to rent me an apartemnt. I still didn't know why.
My mother told me later that the landlord wants to see their tenants. If you're black or covered with tattoos or have some other undesirable characteristic, they don't want you.
That was many years ago, but it's still the same today. I don't make the rules of society. Like it or not, black people are treated much differently than whites.
Weather_Lady
Well-Known Member
I was waiting for someone to bring this up, too.
The fact is that our nation is still struggling with racism. Much progress has been made, and much remains to be done. Looking at a retrospective of Disney movies demonstrates this as well as any other medium, and I would venture to say that in some ways, Disney was more gentle in his portrayal of stereotypical characters than many other filmmakers of his time. It doesn't excuse the fact that stereotypes were used and perpetuated, and many of those scenes are offensive to modern eyes, but these works shouldn't be judged without some appreciation of their historical context.
My children have seen "Peter Pan" and other "oldies," and I try to take advantage of the teachable moment to discuss with them why certain depictions and terms are not acceptable, something they seem to understand readily. My parents did the same for me when I saw "Song of the South" as a youngster.
I'm also surprised to hear the complaint about Tiana as a frog. Not that I don't see where the comments are coming from now that it is pointed out, but frankly, I thought her "froggy-ness" only emphasized the theme that love and virtue exist in all persons of any color (or species). I think that Tiana is the best-developed, most intelligent, and most interesting Princess to date.
lebeau
Well-Known Member
Not to mention, the only one likely to make beneits.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
6 pages and no mention of "What Makes the Red Man Red?"
I won't say Disney is "evil" but some of the older movies contain stuff I find hard to watch in the 21st century. And yeah, those crows in Dumbo are off-putting.
Yep, this too. As a kid I didn't understand but now that I'm older I too find this off-putting. Once again, a sign of the times, but still. I still very much love Peter Pan, though.
atsolomon
Well-Known Member
Hey all,
Even at the time of its release "Song of the South" was the subject of protest by the NAACP for its rosy depiction of slavery. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South#Controversies
This hardly qualifies Walt as a racist. It's just a problematic film. There's a lot of cringe-worthy stuff in the Disney catalog that's a reflection of the incredible level of prejudice in American society at the time, e.g. the Crows in Dumbo, the "What Makes the Red Man Red" sequence in Peter Pan, etc. Fantasia has had a couple bits cut out in its various rereleases.
As Neal Gabler points out in his biography of Walt, Bnei Brith (a major Jewish organization) gave an award to Walt in the 1950's. An odd choice if he was antisemitic. Walt did have a rather antisemitic executive in the company, which might have been the source of this myth. BTW, the book "Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination" is a terrific read.
People who claim Walt was evil/prejudiced for his time/etc. are on the same level as people who cannot suspend their disbelief in the parks and enjoy the show. They just have to be cynical all the time.
--Adam
Even at the time of its release "Song of the South" was the subject of protest by the NAACP for its rosy depiction of slavery. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South#Controversies
This hardly qualifies Walt as a racist. It's just a problematic film. There's a lot of cringe-worthy stuff in the Disney catalog that's a reflection of the incredible level of prejudice in American society at the time, e.g. the Crows in Dumbo, the "What Makes the Red Man Red" sequence in Peter Pan, etc. Fantasia has had a couple bits cut out in its various rereleases.
As Neal Gabler points out in his biography of Walt, Bnei Brith (a major Jewish organization) gave an award to Walt in the 1950's. An odd choice if he was antisemitic. Walt did have a rather antisemitic executive in the company, which might have been the source of this myth. BTW, the book "Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination" is a terrific read.
People who claim Walt was evil/prejudiced for his time/etc. are on the same level as people who cannot suspend their disbelief in the parks and enjoy the show. They just have to be cynical all the time.
--Adam
njDizFan
Well-Known Member
Well I have to concur with this Clever...
Just 20 years ago I was put in a situation where I was temporarily an apartment manager of a multi-family residence. I was in charge of showing the property to perspective tenants. I had a black couple show up and they really liked the apartment and they said to me as kind of an aside"will they rent it to me if they know we are black?". I just stood there in shock, it never occured to me that this kind of thiong still existed(especially in a very mixed suburban area a few miles from the NY border in North NJ. AllI could say was of course that is not a problem. But it's hard to see the other side unless you live it.
twinnstar
Active Member
While i do agree that some of the earlier instances we have been referring to are insulting to say the least, and likewise unfortunate, i feel that not all of these examples are racist, and we are forgetting that these are "cartoons." In cartoons, we caricature and exaggerate people's characteristics. For example, no one has mentioned the fat mustached singing Tony from Lady and The Tramp. "He's a notta speakin' a english a pretty good?" "whats a matta witha you, i breaka yo face-a?" Why havent we mentioned him? Because he's white?
Not trying to start anything, I'm just saying that, in my opinion, some of these characters (ie Fantasia) ARE racist, but some of them are caricatures (ie Dumbo)
Not trying to start anything, I'm just saying that, in my opinion, some of these characters (ie Fantasia) ARE racist, but some of them are caricatures (ie Dumbo)
Clever Name
Well-Known Member
Go to the 6:00 mark in The Three Little Pigs and you'll see the Big Bad Wolf made up as a jewish peddler.
luv
Well-Known Member
Every group can look back into its history and find a time when it was persecuted. I see no reason to be all wigged out about it now.
There are PLENTY of groups being persecuted NOW, right this minute, to worry about. And many ways to try to help them, if you REALLY care about that kind of thing.
There are PLENTY of groups being persecuted NOW, right this minute, to worry about. And many ways to try to help them, if you REALLY care about that kind of thing.
I mentioned this back on page 3.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Why would say he was Jewish? He said he was the Fuller Brush man...
ScorpionX
Well-Known Member
Having seen both Nazi cartoons Disney did, I think "Education for Death" went far deeper into the issue than "Der Fuhrer's Face." The former actually talked about the education system in Nazi Germany while the latter was just about *SPOILER ALERT* Donald Duck having a nightmare. *END SPOILER ALERT*
On another note, Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs was Adolf Hitler's favorite movie.
FettFan
Well-Known Member
Ya know....growing up in the late 80s early 90s....
I always thought those guys were really Mario and Luigi.