Chaos Cat
Well-Known Member
The Villains land is 100% getting canned. The others I'm a bit more unsure about, but I'm leaning towards probably not happening.
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D23 2022: More Epic than Universal?
- Thread starter ThemeParkPriest
- Start date
Disney Warrior
Well-Known Member
I’m kinda torn on these theme park announcements. I like that DinoRama is biting the dust, but I don’t think Zootopia was the right direction (I would’ve liked to see Zootopia somewhere else in AK, or as a ride in DHS), I would’ve prefer a full no-IP retheme of DinoLand, Arctic/Ice Age (but then again, SeaWorld exists), a modern Beastly Kingdom, or even South America (Encanto could’ve worked here). Moana, why? If you want a Moana dark ride, put it in Adventureland, or just don’t include it at all. Journey of Water is already planned for Epcot.
As for Magic Kingdom, I like that they’re using the expansion pad north of BTM, but I would’ve put a different land (possibly Vulcania or an extension of Frontierland/New Orleans) where Coco and Encanto are, I just think they would’ve worked better at Epcot than at MK, as for the Villains land, it’s about time we see one, but I don’t think the expansion plot is the best area for it (will it connect to Haunted Mansion)? It seems like it should be connected to Fantasyland…
I believe these are the only announcements right now
As for Magic Kingdom, I like that they’re using the expansion pad north of BTM, but I would’ve put a different land (possibly Vulcania or an extension of Frontierland/New Orleans) where Coco and Encanto are, I just think they would’ve worked better at Epcot than at MK, as for the Villains land, it’s about time we see one, but I don’t think the expansion plot is the best area for it (will it connect to Haunted Mansion)? It seems like it should be connected to Fantasyland…
I believe these are the only announcements right now
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Disney Dad 3000
Well-Known Member
Whoo boy. That was something. I guess I was half right on the AK surprise being a new land, though remains to be seen on Zootopia.
The last 15 min of blue-sky stuff literally felt like an imagineering competition private message.
Biggest takeaways
* Tron not opening until Spring '23 is abhorrent
* Shocked at how little we actually got on Tiana, like very, very little new except from what was gleaned from the model
* The way he presented what ended up being the Figment M&G was classless IMO. They had to know bringing up Imagination/Figment like that was going to immediately illicit thoughts of an update.
* Zootopia/Moana at Animal Kingdom
- I can't believe they would just clone Shanghai, but even if they did redesign it with the Rainforest District, I can hope that Zootopia doesn't stick
- I would be all for a Shanghai clone of Zootopia in DHS
- I'm not crazy about Moana either, but I can at least see that fleshing out from an aesthetic view, and mixing in her relationship with water (wouldn't journey of water be a good fit in this land), some unique pacific creatures and exhibits on nature
- a merger of these too? Help us all
*Beyond BTM
- 1 land, or 2?
- I don't see any way they remotely do all of this
- Maybe they pull off Coco and Encanto and ditch Villains, whatever they cut from what are just ideas, will still tick some people off
- I imagine they use this opportunity to knock out the back half of RoA, more closures of the WDWRR, etc..
- Call me crazy, but I'd put the Coco/Encanto vibe/land in DHS and Villains alone in MK
* Brings continued film immersion, some foliage, and a true draw of a 2nd park against MK crowds
All of those were blue sky ideas, especially Villains Land. Yes, there is concept art for both Animal Kingdom (was that one more Moana?) and Coco, but they might not live to see the light of day. It seems like they did that bit because they really didn't have anything substantial to announce. They want to show that they want to do more IP work going forward, but D23 really isn't the place to be doing blue sky stuff. That's for the Boards here.
Evilgidgit
Well-Known Member
The Figment copout was a real slap in the face. The blue sky stuff was cool, but D23 really isn't the place to do that. I think the only two big announcements were DCA getting Big Hero 6, and the Treasure ship.
Everything else, including the Avengers ride, were either minor, vague, or "what if".
Come 2025, Universal are going to wipe the floor with Disney.
Universal: "Wooh, we got a brand new third park coming. What do you have for your 100th?"
Disney: "Nothing! Absolutely nothing!"
Everything else, including the Avengers ride, were either minor, vague, or "what if".
Come 2025, Universal are going to wipe the floor with Disney.
Universal: "Wooh, we got a brand new third park coming. What do you have for your 100th?"
Disney: "Nothing! Absolutely nothing!"
Suchomimus
Well-Known Member
Let’s be real here, even without a brand new theme park just down the road, Disney has no ambitions to futureproof their parks.
spacemt354
Chili's
My biggest takeaway?
People on this forum are 10x more creative than the current Disney creative team
It's embarrassing for the price point of Disney nowadays for that panel to be their D23 announcements.
Disney has really priced me out of their parks and none of these announcements move the needle to bring me back
People on this forum are 10x more creative than the current Disney creative team
It's embarrassing for the price point of Disney nowadays for that panel to be their D23 announcements.
Disney has really priced me out of their parks and none of these announcements move the needle to bring me back
stitchcastle
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's the Disney creative team's fault, to be fair. Their mandate for the past decade now has been to just bring in whatever IP is popular and the market demand keeps on coming anyway. It just makes a lot more fiscal sense to give people stuff they know already than to gamble on something actually creative and original. Even from a marketing standpoint, they have an army of influencers online and on social media to hype up whatever new meet and greet or novelty food/merchandise item they bring out instead of proper new attractions.
Compare them with Universal, which, because they've been second place this whole time, they are incentivized to aim high and really delivery big new experiences and attractions at a far more reasonable price point in order to stay competitive.
MagicKingdom4Ever
Well-Known Member
I agree that this is kind of lame. I can see where they're going with some projects, but seriously. Coco and Encanto behind BTM? Moana in Animal Kingdom? Vague updates on all of their other theme park projects? Give me a break. I feel like Disney's forgotten what makes their parks good.
Makes me think that if we can make a better theme park, we should do it. I know I've tried doing this twice already and failed both times, but we should Sydney Disneyland this thing and show them how it's really done. Maybe Chapek and Iger should look down and see what real imagineering looks like.
Makes me think that if we can make a better theme park, we should do it. I know I've tried doing this twice already and failed both times, but we should Sydney Disneyland this thing and show them how it's really done. Maybe Chapek and Iger should look down and see what real imagineering looks like.
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
More epic than Universal? Not a chance.
Do I think the additions are decent? Sure, but not what each park needs. Once again it seems as if Disney just has no idea what they’re doing with the parks at WDW and just throwing IP at each park. Coco and Encanto at MK? They’d fit better in World Showcase at Epcot. Moana at Animal Kingdom? She’s already got an attraction going into Epcot…if she needs a ride, stick that in Magic Kingdom. The biggest mistake? Zootopia in Animal Kingdom. This one has to annoy the snot out of Joe Rohde….that belongs in Studios if anywhere.
I was really hoping for Indy in Studios, a replacement for Stitch, and an update to Imagination….but being real, I at least expected the Play Pavillion and something for Animal Kingdom.
Do I think the additions are decent? Sure, but not what each park needs. Once again it seems as if Disney just has no idea what they’re doing with the parks at WDW and just throwing IP at each park. Coco and Encanto at MK? They’d fit better in World Showcase at Epcot. Moana at Animal Kingdom? She’s already got an attraction going into Epcot…if she needs a ride, stick that in Magic Kingdom. The biggest mistake? Zootopia in Animal Kingdom. This one has to annoy the snot out of Joe Rohde….that belongs in Studios if anywhere.
I was really hoping for Indy in Studios, a replacement for Stitch, and an update to Imagination….but being real, I at least expected the Play Pavillion and something for Animal Kingdom.
MagicKingdom4Ever
Well-Known Member
Excuse me? Universal still takes popular IPs and all. Plus, Disney has tried to aim high and deliver big new experience. Plus, Disney's cheaper than Universal, so I think they're more reasonably priced.
spacemt354
Chili's
Sure most of the blame is held by those in positions of power that dictate the creative demands, however I think it's more than fair to vent frustration at the lack of imagination and ambition behind these ideas.
As stated before, these are inferior concepts to stuff found in off the cuff brainstorming PMs. To have this be part of a D23 presentation is laughable.
But, they get away with this because like you mentioned, they've assimilated an army of influencers who will praise Disney to no end at the expense of the average park guest who unless they've been going for decades doesn't realize how much the domestic US parks have lost their charm.
The IPs are definitely a big factor in what Disney is choosing to work on. With Epic Universe coming, Disney needed to announce a major attraction or two at WDW (even if they were IP related). The Moana boat ride is about the closest we are to an actual new ride, but they’re not ready for that.
stitchcastle
Well-Known Member
I bet you it's all hubris because Universal Marketing botched the opening of Islands of Adventure before and so Disney was forced to scale back on the original massive plans they had to respond with. So this time, instead of concretely promising anything. They have an out to say "it was all blue sky anyway" if Epic Universe turns out to be a flop on opening and they realize they don't need to make any big additions.
PerGron
Well-Known Member
Well I have... Feelings.
While I was overall super disappointed (aside from HEA coming back, that really gets me excited), It was mostly just a harmless and waste of time presentation. But, as the forum's resident DAK aficionado and biggest fanboy, when I saw the Zootopia/Moana blue sky stuff for DAK, I was more upset at Disney than I've been in a long long while.
Animal Kingdom is so rich in theming and thesis and even though I still am anti-Pandora overall (I enjoy the land, just not its placement), they even made that work as well as they could. Including two movies that are so inherently not about animals and nature is so upsetting to me and I hope that it stays blue sky and never comes to fruition.
Zootopia stars animals but it's such a human story. It's about identity and culture and prejudice and also pro-cop which isn't a great look for a theme park in today's day and age (just from an optics standpoint). Moana is about people as well and while it's set in the ocean it isn't ABOUT the ocean, it's about people, culture, expectations, etc.
I don't think IP can't be in DAK, I don't think Dinoland shouldn't be touched (though if Dinosaur leaves, I riot) but this park is so clear and apparent in its point and having it add this land is such a foolish thing. They forcedme Joe Rohde to quit and then spit on the park he worked to create so coherently.
Give me Encanto and Up in a new South America land with new animal trails, a restaurant, etc if you really want IP. Keep the point of the park about animals and nature, don't muck it up with stories that are irrelevant.
In other words, hire me to run DAK imagineering. Rant over
While I was overall super disappointed (aside from HEA coming back, that really gets me excited), It was mostly just a harmless and waste of time presentation. But, as the forum's resident DAK aficionado and biggest fanboy, when I saw the Zootopia/Moana blue sky stuff for DAK, I was more upset at Disney than I've been in a long long while.
Animal Kingdom is so rich in theming and thesis and even though I still am anti-Pandora overall (I enjoy the land, just not its placement), they even made that work as well as they could. Including two movies that are so inherently not about animals and nature is so upsetting to me and I hope that it stays blue sky and never comes to fruition.
Zootopia stars animals but it's such a human story. It's about identity and culture and prejudice and also pro-cop which isn't a great look for a theme park in today's day and age (just from an optics standpoint). Moana is about people as well and while it's set in the ocean it isn't ABOUT the ocean, it's about people, culture, expectations, etc.
I don't think IP can't be in DAK, I don't think Dinoland shouldn't be touched (though if Dinosaur leaves, I riot) but this park is so clear and apparent in its point and having it add this land is such a foolish thing. They forced
Give me Encanto and Up in a new South America land with new animal trails, a restaurant, etc if you really want IP. Keep the point of the park about animals and nature, don't muck it up with stories that are irrelevant.
In other words, hire me to run DAK imagineering. Rant over
Chaos Cat
Well-Known Member
Fixed it for you, king.
Miru
Well-Known Member
Almost as much as Knott’s barrage of relatively Un themed coasters. The mono-IP lands don’t help, though.
I post here my blog post in reaction to D23:
As with many of the people who were in-person for or watching live the “Disney Parks, Experiences, and Products” at the 2022 D23 Convention, I’m primarily interested in the rides at the Disney parks. As such, I was rather disappointed at the presentation.
The presentation was limited in details (especially for new announcements). At some specific times, it felt more like a Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade with song/dance numbers. It was also rather slow; at one point, I was saying, “There’s 13 more minutes and there hasn’t really been anything announced!!”
There were some demonstrations of things coming to the parks, notably a walk-around Mandalorian with Grogu (cool!) and a giant Hulk in a helmet and a suit (not as fluid or believable as people were expecting). A Figment walk-around puppet is coming to Epcot, but that’s a far cry from the hope of getting a revamp of the Journey into Imagination ride. Disney Cruise Line is getting another ship (called Treasure) as well as a port-of-call in Australia, but that doesn’t excite me. Ride-wise, there were more details at D23 regarding Zootopia coming to Shanghai Disneyland and Tiana’s Bayou Adventure replacing Splash Mountain at Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom in late 2024. A big upcoming focus for the parks will be when the Frozen lands open at Hong Kong Disneyland, Walt Disney Studios in Paris, and Tokyo DisneySea (as part of a larger Fantasy Springs land). Those lands all look rather neat, especially the one in Tokyo. We also got word that the area in Paris will get a Tangled flat ride. The biggest surprise was over at California Adventure–the previously-announced Quinjet E-ticket ride is getting downgraded to some sort of Avengers multiverse screen ride (details are limited at this point).
The most interesting part of the Parks presentation came at the end, when they did “Blue Sky” Imagineering. Unfortunately, the D23 Convention is a poor time for Disney to do Blue Sky Imagineering, because that means they haven’t finalized plans yet. DSNY Newscast does a good job of summarizing the where and the how of the possible projects:
D23 EXPO 2022 | Walt Disney World's EARLY EXPANSION PLANS - Disney News
In short, the project that looks the closest to being green-lit is Moana for Animal Kingdom–it looks like it would be comprised of a spinner (a re-theme of Triceratops Spin) and a flume ride (which would maybe take the place of the theater where Finding Nemo: the Musical is located). They also indicated that Zootopia might also have an area in Animal Kingdom, which would probably lead to a re-theme of Dinosaur. Over at the Magic Kingdom, they showed some very loose concept art for a Coco-themed land near Big Thunder Mountain. They also mentioned that Encanto could have a land there. And then there was a Villain’s Land briefly mentioned. This portion of the presentation was not formalized so there’s a high chance that none of them will see the light of day.
Disney was tasked with trying to keep up with Universal as they build Epic Universe. By not having much to announce, Disney is letting Universal take the lead in the Theme Park War for at least the rest of the decade. The market share (and enthusiasm among fans) is going to keep tilting more and more in-favor of Universal.
As with many of the people who were in-person for or watching live the “Disney Parks, Experiences, and Products” at the 2022 D23 Convention, I’m primarily interested in the rides at the Disney parks. As such, I was rather disappointed at the presentation.
The presentation was limited in details (especially for new announcements). At some specific times, it felt more like a Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade with song/dance numbers. It was also rather slow; at one point, I was saying, “There’s 13 more minutes and there hasn’t really been anything announced!!”
There were some demonstrations of things coming to the parks, notably a walk-around Mandalorian with Grogu (cool!) and a giant Hulk in a helmet and a suit (not as fluid or believable as people were expecting). A Figment walk-around puppet is coming to Epcot, but that’s a far cry from the hope of getting a revamp of the Journey into Imagination ride. Disney Cruise Line is getting another ship (called Treasure) as well as a port-of-call in Australia, but that doesn’t excite me. Ride-wise, there were more details at D23 regarding Zootopia coming to Shanghai Disneyland and Tiana’s Bayou Adventure replacing Splash Mountain at Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom in late 2024. A big upcoming focus for the parks will be when the Frozen lands open at Hong Kong Disneyland, Walt Disney Studios in Paris, and Tokyo DisneySea (as part of a larger Fantasy Springs land). Those lands all look rather neat, especially the one in Tokyo. We also got word that the area in Paris will get a Tangled flat ride. The biggest surprise was over at California Adventure–the previously-announced Quinjet E-ticket ride is getting downgraded to some sort of Avengers multiverse screen ride (details are limited at this point).
The most interesting part of the Parks presentation came at the end, when they did “Blue Sky” Imagineering. Unfortunately, the D23 Convention is a poor time for Disney to do Blue Sky Imagineering, because that means they haven’t finalized plans yet. DSNY Newscast does a good job of summarizing the where and the how of the possible projects:
D23 EXPO 2022 | Walt Disney World's EARLY EXPANSION PLANS - Disney News
In short, the project that looks the closest to being green-lit is Moana for Animal Kingdom–it looks like it would be comprised of a spinner (a re-theme of Triceratops Spin) and a flume ride (which would maybe take the place of the theater where Finding Nemo: the Musical is located). They also indicated that Zootopia might also have an area in Animal Kingdom, which would probably lead to a re-theme of Dinosaur. Over at the Magic Kingdom, they showed some very loose concept art for a Coco-themed land near Big Thunder Mountain. They also mentioned that Encanto could have a land there. And then there was a Villain’s Land briefly mentioned. This portion of the presentation was not formalized so there’s a high chance that none of them will see the light of day.
Disney was tasked with trying to keep up with Universal as they build Epic Universe. By not having much to announce, Disney is letting Universal take the lead in the Theme Park War for at least the rest of the decade. The market share (and enthusiasm among fans) is going to keep tilting more and more in-favor of Universal.