Cost of Disney

[Goofyernmost]

Oddly enough I'm on both sides of this fence. I see what it cost for an average family to visit and think "that's pricey" But I also know and understand what it takes to support such an operation. What I mean is, all the behind the scenes cost that people don't see and/or don't think about. WDW world is a 24/7 operation. When the parks are " not open" (overnight) there is still an army of people in there prepping for another day among other things. And there is new construction cost etc. etc. The proverbial meter is always running and the bills have to get paid. Are they making a lot of money? Of course, their in business to make money. And as mentioned they will price to what the market will bear.

It's all kind of relative. I will post the price list for 1983, the year of my first visit. All that existed was MK and EPCOT Ctr. had just opened. Everyone looks at the prices and thinks... yea, back then Disney was affordable. Fact check time. I was married with two children, worked full time in the printing/publishing business, my wife also worked part-time and we had all we could do to afford a road trip to Florida and stay at an Econo-lodge for $25.00 per night. People don't stop and consider what the average person was making per week at that time. Those prices were as hard to cover as today's are. I, at this moment, collect Social Security that is two times higher then what I earned back then and I cannot afford to even live off of that alone right now. It was cheaper in price, but, not in what people could afford. Later on, when the wages were higher the rates also went up, but, so did our ability to pay them. If I recall minimum wage at that time was about $1.35 per hour. Please let's not mention how it doesn't match the cost of living index... luxury expenses are never included in any cost of living charts. It means nothing.

 

[KeithVH]

Considering the season, it might be worth it if they brought back the LoW and the Peace Garden . . .

 

[Chef Mickey]

It should cost more because the crowds are insane these days...

 

[jimbojones]

Hi All,

I’m very interested in hearing what everyone thinks of today’s prices at Walt Disney World. Do you think they are reasonable? Are they to high? Would you go no matter how high the cost gets?
Thanks,
Kathy

I think the prices are straining the limits of being reasonable when you compare the alternative options for vacation spending. WDW charges high end prices for mid level accommodations, food and service. However for children's entertainment they are about as good as it gets so as a family its still worth it but when the kids are bigger....no way.

 

[jimbojones]

It's all kind of relative. I will post the price list for 1983, the year of my first visit. All that existed was MK and EPCOT Ctr. had just opened. Everyone looks at the prices and thinks... yea, back then Disney was affordable. Fact check time. I was married with two children, worked full time in the printing/publishing business, my wife also worked part-time and we had all we could do to afford a road trip to Florida and stay at an Econo-lodge for $25.00 per night. People don't stop and consider what the average person was making per week at that time. Those prices were as hard to cover as today's are. I, at this moment, collect Social Security that is two times higher then what I earned back then and I cannot afford to even live off of that alone right now. It was cheaper in price, but, not in what people could afford. Later on, when the wages were higher the rates also went up, but, so did our ability to pay them. If I recall minimum wage at that time was about $1.35 per hour. Please let's not mention how it doesn't match the cost of living index... luxury expenses are never included in any cost of living charts. It means nothing.
View attachment 247283

$14 in 1983 corrected for inflation using the consumer price index method is $35 dollars in 2017 so it is three times more expensive today than when that ticket was printed. For reference $100 dollars today adjusted to 1983 buying power was $41 *

* I am an economist.

 

[bback30]

I don't believe WDW is nearly as good of a value as it used to be. However, I still believe it's worth the money. The upfront cost is a bit of a shocker, but you get what you pay for. For example, 3 years ago in 2014 we went to Gatlinburg for Thanksgiving. My parents paid for our cabin, so we just had food and entertainment to pay for. We easily dropped $3,000 for the week. Easily. I felt soooo nickled and dimed the entire week. $18 a person for this roller coaster, and then you have to figure out what else to do after 20 minutes. Food was just as expensive as Disney. We spend almost $600 to ride ATVs and go ziplining.
In March of 2014 we spent around $3,500 for our 7 night stay at POR, which included the dining plan and a dessert party. We had a blast, stayed busy the entire time and didn't spend much extra after that $3,500 that we spent up front.
We realized really quickly that we got a lot for our money in WDW. While we enjoyed Gatlinburg, we spent a lot of time looking for something else to do and forking over more money.

All that said, we won't get that vacation for $3,500 again! But we still feel that it's worth it. A lot of people feel differently, but we will keep going until we don't feel like it's worth it anymore or Disney prices us out. And you can always go cheaper. Our next stay is at The Poly and we have some character meals planned. There are definitely cheaper places and you can do without the character meals. It's all in what you want and how much you plan to spend.

I think part of it is that I like to know what I can expect to pay and have a budget. Even though our last few trips to WDW have been without the dining plan, everything else is paid for. We are going to Las Vegas in May for our anniversary and I'm stressing out about how much to budget and what we will spend. I wish we were going to WDW instead!

 

[spacemtnfanatic]

I think the worst offender is dining. The food has more than doubled in price in the last 10 years and there are facts out there that prove the food is the lowest quality it has ever been.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not sure if we will get slammed or not, but I would pay double for park tickets for half the crowds.....

Because you've fallen into the trap they've laid with stagnation and price increases...

From 1971-2000, wdw had consistent additions to address what it was built as: an expanding complex that grew as travel become more accessible/popular...

Then Mike and Bob stopped to "see what happened"...not without reasons, but a Hail Mary.

The consumers bailed them out...kept buying against logic and now here we are.

I see that all the time..."I'd pay $12000 a week (instead of the already overpriced $6000) if it meant there wasn't as many people in line for 30-50 year old rides..."

...on what planet does that really make any sense? Especially when you could leave in the 80s or 90s for 3-5 years, come back and have 6 new attractions, and pay 10-15% more in costs.

Doesn't jive.

 

[Goofyernmost]

$14 in 1983 corrected for inflation using the consumer price index method is $35 dollars in 2017 so it is three times more expensive today than when that ticket was printed. For reference $100 dollars today adjusted to 1983 buying power was $41 *

* I am an economist.

I'm not sure what your point is. Comparing it so say, a house in 1983 sold in my home area for $35,000.00 that same house just sold for $250,000.00 so it is seven times more expensive today. And automobile (common not luxury) sold for $8000.00. The same car today costs around $25,000.00, so that three times higher today. Another, not exactly comparable to Disney, is when I first go married in 1972 I rented a 4 room apartment for $115.00 per month. I currently rent a four room apartment for $838 per month, so it is also seven times more expensive.

No matter what direction or take you have on this it means nothing without income comparison. To start out let's look at wages. Anyone that earned minimum wage in '83 could not afford to go to WDW unless they lived very close and didn't require lodging while there. That same thing applies today. Nothing really has change except the numbers are bigger. If Disney prices are higher than in 1983, remember that the product didn't have as much demand as it has now. And like any luxury item the prices have gone up accordingly. Demand and Price goes up together and likewise they also go down together. If anything Disney was way under priced back then.

If a park opens at 9am and closes at 10pm that's 13 hours of continuous entertainment. That amounts to about $7.75 an hour. (just one example, the hours vary usually upward) I defy you to find quality entertainment at that price anywhere. Even if you decide that you don't want to stay from open to close it is still pretty reasonable considering the quality of entertainment that is provided and not staying the whole time was your decision not theirs.

We can also address the "but Walt wanted" end of this. Walt never envisioned the numbers of people that currently go to one of the parks. He was also did things cheaply because even though he believed in what he built, he really didn't know for sure that it would gain that kind of acceptance. He had to build that demand. You can also bet your last dollar the as brilliant as he was at both creativity and business he would be happily and without any guilt be accepting the rates that we have today. He sold his creations he never intended to give them away.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the worst offender is dining. The food has more than doubled in price in the last 10 years and there are facts out there that prove the food is the lowest quality it has ever been.

...ohhh...we
Should be friends

 

[jimbojones]

I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is that the cost of a Disney vacation is going up at a rate that far exceeds the decline in purchasing power of a dollar and that is not simply an issue of anecdotal evidence.

In other words; WDW is about three times more expensive in real terms today than it was in 1983.

Beyond that I have no idea what Walt wanted and it is up to you and everyone else to decide if it is "worth it" . But it is empirically more expensive even when accounting for the purchasing power of a dollar (how much stuff you can get per dollar). I am returning this summer so I must think it is worth it and from your post it is clear that you also still think it is worth it too

just for fun in case anyone is interested the bureau of labor statistics has a very user friendly calculator to compare costs through time here :
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

 

[thomas998]

Hi All,

I’m very interested in hearing what everyone thinks of today’s prices at Walt Disney World. Do you think they are reasonable? Are they to high? Would you go no matter how high the cost gets?
Thanks,
Kathy

Kind of depends on what your talking about because some things I see as a complete ripoff while other things I don't see as too high at all. Frankly the tickets are too cheap for the multi-day passes and I wish they would raise them or eliminate multi-day passes completely as it would result in lower crowd level and probably not impact Disney's bottom line much either as fewer guests in a park but paying more to get in probably offsets the lower number of guests but would make a trip more enjoyable for the visitor.

Now some of the food and drinks are just too high given the quality of the food. One of the biggest rips is Be Our Guest at Breakfast, you are paying 25 for for a subpar breakfast that you can get pretty much the same thing at EPCOT's France pavilion for almost half the price and EPCOT is still charging high Disney prices... So to me that stands out as a insanely expensive meal.

 

[BigRedDad]

There are several categories of people I see that go to WDW.

1. Those that spend $15k on a vacation without blinking an eye. I wish I could be part of this group
2. Those that spend $15k + $1 on a vacation because they cannot go on a vacation that is less or below the family in their social circle that is beneath them. They have to keep ahead of them at all cost.
3. Those that are more frugal with their money and want equal value. Simply put, Disney does not offer it but people make sacrifices
4. Then the group I am in and this is the cheapskate group. I want to make my trip as good if not better than that $15k trip at 80% less. ~$600 for 7-nights in a 2BR condo with better than Disney amenities, full kitchens, 2 bathrooms, 2 bedrooms, 3-4x the space. Buy APs to make it far more cost-effective over a 12 month period and maximize those perks as much as possible. My 14-night trip this Summer totaled $5,000 which included all meals (mostly grilled dinners at the resort and eating like a king), adult beverages, souvenirs, 3 adult APs, and 2 1-week stays in 2BR resort accommodations. This same trip at Pop Century for the same amount of money would have only been 6 nights.

 

[Goofyernmost]

My point is that the cost of a Disney vacation is going up at a rate that far exceeds the decline in purchasing power of a dollar and that is not simply an issue of anecdotal evidence.

In other words; WDW is about three times more expensive in real terms today than it was in 1983.

Beyond that I have no idea what Walt wanted and it is up to you and everyone else to decide if it is "worth it" . But it is empirically more expensive even when accounting for the purchasing power of a dollar (how much stuff you can get per dollar). I am returning this summer so I must think it is worth it and from your post it is clear that you also still think it is worth it too

just for fun in case anyone is interested the bureau of labor statistics has a very user friendly calculator to compare costs through time here :
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

And my point was... so what? Just looking at that side of it doesn't say anything nor does it address the fact that we are talking about a luxury item not needed to maintain life. Also on the other side, because of increased costs to operate such an venue it all adds up and isn't necessarily parallel with inflationary numbers because it isn't included in that calculation. If it were the inflationary amounts would be much greater. However, since a trip to WDW is not a needed for life activity it really doesn't matter what the inflation figure is. Then it becomes a Supply and Demand comparison coupled with the still, in spite of the jaded opinions of some, a quality, very narrow choice of other similar options in the world, place to visit. The difference between a Ford Falcon and a Rolls Royce. Both provide the same service... movement from one place to another, however, one with much more of a Luxury connection and not governed by some silly inflationary rate. In other words, what the public is willing to pay and it doesn't look like many are refraining from paying it when they can. And just like when Disneyland opened in 1955 still has a segment of the population that cannot afford to visit.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And my point was... so what? Just looking at that side of it doesn't say anything nor does it address the fact that we are talking about a luxury item not needed to maintain life. Also on the other side, because of increased costs to operate such an venue it all adds up and isn't necessarily parallel with inflationary numbers because it isn't included in that calculation. If it were the inflationary amounts would be much greater. However, since a trip to WDW is not a needed for life activity it really doesn't matter what the inflation figure is. Then it becomes a Supply and Demand comparison coupled with the still, in spite of the jaded opinions of some, a quality, very narrow choice of other similar options in the world, place to visit. The difference between a Ford Falcon and a Rolls Royce. Both provide the same service... movement from one place to another, however, one with much more of a Luxury connection and not governed by some silly inflationary rate. In other words, what the public is willing to pay and it doesn't look like many are refraining from paying it when they can. And just like when Disneyland opened in 1955 still has a segment of the population that cannot afford to visit.

Wdw was never "affordable"...neither was Disneyland. They were meant for the middle/upper segments.

However...it was also not "luxury"...and you've fallen for that.

Because they labeled it that coming out of the housing crash...doesn't make it true.

They need tens of millions of visitors annually...and with espn collapsing...they need more.

Calling it "luxury", pricing out 75% of the market, and trying find more "wealth" in a fished out sea is not gonna work because it doesn't exist.

Parks have Have a mass market...concentrated wealth won't fix that.

The average American worker (adjusted for insulation) peaked in 1968. It's just not a sustainable path if you turned the masses away.

They don't need to sell a $56 (worth 20) steak at le cellier...they need to sell 4. You need butts in seats to do that and bob is dangerously trying to ignore that.

We'll see...I would theorize that the disney parks have never...ever been less recession prepared than they are now.

Boy...that seems dangerous...don't it?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Wdw was never "affordable"...neither was Disneyland. They were meant for the middle/upper segments.

However...it was also not "luxury"...and you've fallen for that.

Because they labeled it that coming out of the housing crash...doesn't make it true.

They need tens of millions of visitors annually...and with espn collapsing...they need more.

Calling it "luxury", pricing out 75% of the market, and trying find more "wealth" in a fished out sea is not gonna work because of doesn't exist.

Parks have Have a mass market...concentrated wealth won't fix that.

The average American worker (adjusted for insulation) peaked in 1968. It's just not a sustainable path if you turned the masses away.

They don't need to sell a $56 (worth 20) steak at le cellier...they need to sell 4. You need butts in seats to do that and bob is dangerously trying to ignore that.

We'll see...I would theorize that the disney parks have never...ever been less recession prepared than they are now.

Boy...that seems dangerous...don't it?

Luxury = anything not required to sustain life or livelihood. Or perhaps comparison of entertainment venues.. Neighborhood play grounds = not luxury vs. WDW.
Clothing from Walmart = not luxury vs. Expensive Designer clothing = luxury. Clothing is necessary, Designer not so much.

What the future holds for Disney is only an exercise in guessing. To this point, it has just not happened. I suppose if we say it long enough and often enough at some point it might be an accurate prediction, however, unless something drastic happens, they will be OK and they also have a lot of room to come down if they desire. If they get in trouble and don't react that way, then and only then, that prediction will come true.

 

[jloucks]

My point is that the cost of a Disney vacation is going up at a rate that far exceeds the decline in purchasing power of a dollar and that is not simply an issue of anecdotal evidence.

In other words; WDW is about three times more expensive in real terms today than it was in 1983.

Beyond that I have no idea what Walt wanted and it is up to you and everyone else to decide if it is "worth it" . But it is empirically more expensive even when accounting for the purchasing power of a dollar (how much stuff you can get per dollar). I am returning this summer so I must think it is worth it and from your post it is clear that you also still think it is worth it too

just for fun in case anyone is interested the bureau of labor statistics has a very user friendly calculator to compare costs through time here :
https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

They might be trying to control demand with price. If the crowd levels are any indicator they are having (intentional?) supply problems.

I feel for you braving a summer visit. I hope the crowd levels are bearable.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Luxury = anything not required to sustain life or livelihood. Or perhaps comparison of entertainment venues.. Neighborhood play grounds = not luxury vs. WDW.
Clothing from Walmart = not luxury vs. Expensive Designer clothing = luxury. Clothing is necessary, Designer not so much.

What the future holds for Disney is only an exercise in guessing. To this point, it has just not happened. I suppose if we say it long enough and often enough at some point it might be an accurate prediction, however, unless something drastic happens, they will be OK and they also have a lot of room to come down if they desire. If they get in trouble and don't react that way, then and only then, that prediction will come true.

Ok...if we're going to do definitions, I got one:

History - a series of events and/or actions that have been documented, verified, and comprise an accurate portrayal of circumstances leading to outcomes widely accepted.

Disney parks were designed and have operated for 62 years on "middle to upper middle class economic model to supply a mass market"

...so I guess I could predict that one day the minimum income to go to an amusement park in a reclamated swamp will be $750,000 annually...

And while that's ridiculous...it can't be "disproven"...technically speaking.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They might be trying to control demand with price. If the crowd levels are any indicator they are having (intentional?) supply problems.

I feel for you braving a summer visit. I hope the crowd levels are bearable.

That's the stated goal they float occasionally...but it's as flimsy as a slice of Swiss cheese.

Their major profit generator - espn - is heading down the plumbing...so parks are being repositioned to compensate...

Step one is to jack up the prices and test the market.
Step two is to expand capacity and refocus the consumer expectations.
Step three will be to coax in much larger crowds - even if they have to tweak prices to a period of time - to get a much larger, higher paying mass crowd in place in the long term.

Now...the question is: does that populace exist?

 

[jloucks]

Ok...if we're going to do definitions, I got one:

History - a series of events and/or actions that have been documented, verified, and comprise an accurate portrayal of circumstances leading to outcomes widely accepted.

Disney parks were designed and have operated for 62 years on "middle to upper middle class economic model to supply a mass market"

...so I guess I could predict that one day the minimum income to go to an amusement park in a reclamated swamp will be $750,000 annually...

And while that's ridiculous...it can't be "disproven"...technically speaking.

A little less ridiculous, or not at all ridiculous, would be to put the model at $75,000. If Disney can fill the parks while charging prices commensurate with this income level, why wouldn't they?

I was on the Disney Wonder last week. It was sold completely out, and sold out many many months ago. They do flex price based on demand. That cruise cost a family of 4 $9,200 (40% more than normal price). That was with a near base level cabin, but with lots of cheapish excursions and some drinks. I don't know what most people make, but for this price, you are looking at a family income of $75,000ish to be able to afford it comfortably. ...every other year or three.

Comfortably is a key word. Sure, a fry cook could skrimp for a decade and do it, but that is NOT what vacations are supposed to be.