Ok, so now I have upgraded my Ram from 256 to 768.. added another 512 MB this weekend.... Still haven't downloaded any software though...
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Computer Animation Software
- Thread starter Captain Chaos
- Start date
NowInc
Well-Known Member
dxer07002 said:
Thats a great start
My 3D workstation at my job has the following specs::
2 Gb Ram
P4 3.2ghz
Nvidia Quadro FX
and 500 GB HD space
HOWEVER
My HOME workstation is far less robust..
1 GB ram
P4 3.2 ghz
ATI Radeon 9800
500 GB HD space
It doesnt take the HIGHEST end computers to do this stuff...it really will only make a difference when rendering.
The better video cards are for people who are doing larger scenes..but for a beginner..most 3D cards will swing it just fine.
For my video work that I am doing now I have moved into using a combo of Lightwave, Avid, After Effects and Softimage XSI. I use XSI over Maya mainly because I am already an Avid guy and the workflow is a tad bit smoother for compositing. It's interoperabality is very nice, however I have friends that swear by Maya. To be good in this biz you got to know everything from After Effects to Combustion, XSI to Maya. So in my mind... its best to pick one, learn it, move on to the next, etc..
I will say that its nice that each company puts out a free edition to learn with. Its a great place to start (the books from Avid on Softimage XSI are fairly easy to read, however I started with a DVD-Rom tutorial that teaches you how to make like a Star Wars pod-racer. I normally hate project driven tutorials however it gives a good understanding of the basic tools of XSI).
My system specs. for XSI/Lightwave:
Sony VAIO - P4 3.0GHz - 2GB RAM - 250GB HD (INT.) - 350GB HD (EXT) - ASUS Nvidia G-Force FX6600
I will say that its nice that each company puts out a free edition to learn with. Its a great place to start (the books from Avid on Softimage XSI are fairly easy to read, however I started with a DVD-Rom tutorial that teaches you how to make like a Star Wars pod-racer. I normally hate project driven tutorials however it gives a good understanding of the basic tools of XSI).
My system specs. for XSI/Lightwave:
Sony VAIO - P4 3.0GHz - 2GB RAM - 250GB HD (INT.) - 350GB HD (EXT) - ASUS Nvidia G-Force FX6600
NowInc
Well-Known Member
Blizz said:
I agree its best to learn as many programs as you can. I've worked at a LOT of places and each one has a different preference as to what tools they will provide. XSI and Maya are VERY similar in almost every way now-a-days..in fact XSI 5 which just came out has an option to make XSI's hotkeys and functionality identicle to that of maya..which i think is a GREAT Idea. "Modo" also does this..it has presets to make the program look and act like any other 3d program you wish.
For compositiing...I mostly use After effects, combustion, and Shake. Id use fusion but I dont think we can afford for me to make yet another software purchase here...heh. Now that autodesk owns Maya, Im sure the workflow from Maya to Combustion will be made more seemless...i hope.
mickhyperion
Active Member
Maya is available for both $1999 and $6999. They call the cheaper one Maya Complete because basically it is. There is nothing limited about it. It is a super powerful complete version of the software. You can make your Gollum with it.
What you're paying for in the $6999 version (Maya Ultimate) are all of the super hot rendering tricks like fur or liquid effects that dazzle and amaze in the movies. They price it so high so the studios have to pay the big bucks for it. There is a whole lifetime of amazing things you can do with Maya without getting the Ultimate version.
As fast as Maya updates it's software (they've gone from 5 to 6 to 6.5 to 7 in just over a year), it's "obsolete" quicker that you can even learn to use it.
Master the free demo version (Personal Learning Edition), then decide which to buy.
What you're paying for in the $6999 version (Maya Ultimate) are all of the super hot rendering tricks like fur or liquid effects that dazzle and amaze in the movies. They price it so high so the studios have to pay the big bucks for it. There is a whole lifetime of amazing things you can do with Maya without getting the Ultimate version.
As fast as Maya updates it's software (they've gone from 5 to 6 to 6.5 to 7 in just over a year), it's "obsolete" quicker that you can even learn to use it.
Master the free demo version (Personal Learning Edition), then decide which to buy.
NowInc
Well-Known Member
mickhyperion said:
Part of the reason Alias (makers of Maya) got bought out by Autodesk (makers of 3DS max) was because more studios refused to upgrade to any newer versions of Maya since the ones they had installed were good enough (thanks to custom scripts and 3rd party render engines). This makes for bad buisness for Alias..low incomeing revinews..and thus..a buyout. Maya is rumored to be dead..which isnt the case...it just has a new home. Not the BEST path in my opinion..but its too early to see what will happen.
I HAVE used motion and see no real advantage over it. I use shake since im so used to it from years ago..and its prob the only reason why i still even have a mac setup here.
NowInc
Well-Known Member
SIDE NOTE addition to my previous post.
Fur, paint FX, liquid dynamics, etc and all the other perks of maya unlimited are all well and good..but un-necessary. First off..you can get ANY of these things by a 3rd party plugin thats usually better and cheaper in the long run. Second..most of these "effects" wont render using Mental ray or any other render engine aside from the one build in to maya. Even Maya LIVE! isnt that great compaired to some of the other solutions ive seen now a days.
I wont even get into how processor expensive all those added features become...its such a drain on resources.
Fur, paint FX, liquid dynamics, etc and all the other perks of maya unlimited are all well and good..but un-necessary. First off..you can get ANY of these things by a 3rd party plugin thats usually better and cheaper in the long run. Second..most of these "effects" wont render using Mental ray or any other render engine aside from the one build in to maya. Even Maya LIVE! isnt that great compaired to some of the other solutions ive seen now a days.
I wont even get into how processor expensive all those added features become...its such a drain on resources.
NowInc said:
What would you use to render that? Something like Pixar's RenderMan?
I couldn't really tell a huge difference between what I could do in Shake compared to Motion. However in the videos I've watched I like the layout of Shake more with the tree and the abality to work on the lower layers while viewing the final comp. To me, Motion looked more like a glorified After Effects with a much better particle effects.
NowInc
Well-Known Member
Ive used renderman, and although its highly praised and a very popular render engine..im not a big fan. Up until quite recently, you needed a LOT of practice to get a decent result out of it, but now its integrated into maya. I still wouldnt use it to render fur or paint fx tho. For paint FX..id just convert them to polygons (tho i know..that adds a LOT of CPU overhead)..for Fur.."Shave and a haircut" is the way to go. Overall..the best option is to use render-layers. ALL render engines allow you to render things out in layers..and thats pretty handy. For example. I used to use mental ray for 99% of the scene render..and then Maya's built in render for the other 1% (paint FX)..and then id bring them into my compositing program..fix the lighting levels..and it would work pretty well.
The render engine im currently using more than any other right now is "turtle". I have licences for Maxwell and Mental ray as well..but i hardly get use for them anymore. Maxwell is SLOW..and Mental ray has a LOT of rendering flaws that are pretty evident once someone points them out to you.
I got hooked on shake from before Apple bought them out. Now that apple owns them..they really arent improoving it much. After effects was my first "love"..i know it like the back of my hand, but I only use it for really short composites. I used digital fusion before its recent interface change..that wasnt bad. Before that...I was stuck with "Composer" on an old SGI. ewww.
Combustion is where i think i'll be going next...ive used it before and was actually kinda impressed. The only thing that held me back is it seemed like it was "made for" use with 3ds max..which i didnt use. But now that the same company owns Maya..I have a hunch that integrating from MY 3d package will be more seemless.
The render engine im currently using more than any other right now is "turtle". I have licences for Maxwell and Mental ray as well..but i hardly get use for them anymore. Maxwell is SLOW..and Mental ray has a LOT of rendering flaws that are pretty evident once someone points them out to you.
I got hooked on shake from before Apple bought them out. Now that apple owns them..they really arent improoving it much. After effects was my first "love"..i know it like the back of my hand, but I only use it for really short composites. I used digital fusion before its recent interface change..that wasnt bad. Before that...I was stuck with "Composer" on an old SGI. ewww.
Combustion is where i think i'll be going next...ive used it before and was actually kinda impressed. The only thing that held me back is it seemed like it was "made for" use with 3ds max..which i didnt use. But now that the same company owns Maya..I have a hunch that integrating from MY 3d package will be more seemless.
Oh ok, yeah I was wondering if the software was good or if it was just overrated.
I guess I'll have to give Shake a try, it looks like a nice step up from After Effects.
From what I have done with it I like Combustion (at least the Discreet version) but I can't wait to play with Inferno. I have a feeling that it has more to offer as far as robust high res graphics go. I am sure one day I'll be able to afford Inferno (got to upgrade my Avid first) but for now I'm happy with the package I am using.
I guess I'll have to give Shake a try, it looks like a nice step up from After Effects.
From what I have done with it I like Combustion (at least the Discreet version) but I can't wait to play with Inferno. I have a feeling that it has more to offer as far as robust high res graphics go. I am sure one day I'll be able to afford Inferno (got to upgrade my Avid first) but for now I'm happy with the package I am using.
Ok, now I am totally lost..... What are all these combustion, render programs you are talking about????
dxer07002 said:
Combustion, Inferno, Shake, Motion, After Effects... are all visual effects and compositing programs.
RenderMan is a render program that was devloped by Pixar and is very popular, Mental Ray was devloped for use with 3ds Max, and NowInc mentioned a few others he has used like Maxwell. All have their pros and cons.
When you work with programs like XSI and Maya you need to render your project, these are stand alone render programs that allow you to render it at a better quality. However each has its own problems as do most software. That is the reason its best to know so many programs, then when you want something done you know what software to go to so that you can achieve what you want.
You design your models through XSI, Maya, Lightwave, etc... and then you render, and then you can use them by compositing them into video you have or what your doing through Shake, Combustion, After Effects or Inferno.
NowInc
Well-Known Member
Blizz summed it up pretty nicely.
To help assist clearing things up..a render engine is basically how you get your 3d Objects into final graphics. So for example...how the lights, textures, and models interact with each other to provide the final image.
Every 3D program has a few parts. Usually like this:
Modeler (making polygons into objects)
Texturer (putting texture files on your objects to add realism)
Animator (to make everything move)
Renderer (To put the above 3 together for a more final output)
99% of the programs have these all integrated in the same program, so you normally dont think about how different and essential each is on their own.
Some render engines are faster than others, and some are better than others. Few are free, and as the old saying goes..you get what you pay for.
The advantage of having a 3rd party render engine (meaning a render engine not made by the same company that makes the 3D package) is USUALLY its cheaper to get multiple render licences. Essentially what that means is I can install the render engine on as many computeres that i own licences for, and render on each one..without needed to have the 3D package on each machine.
For example::
I own 3 licences for "turtle" (a new render engine). I only own 1 licence for Maya..so legally..I can only use it on one computer at a time. BUT..since i own 3 licences of Turtle..I can use up to 3 different computers at a time to render..thus tripleing the speed of my final product. Also, its nice to be able to render without having the 3D program open bogging down ram and CPU useage.
As for the other programs such as flint, flame, combustion, inferno, shake, after effects, premiere, digital fusion, composer, vegas, avid, and a bunch of others...
they are used as a "last step" before your final output. Basically..they are post production tools...effects you add after you render (thus saving a LOT of time)..and basically turning all your different clips into an animation. (Maya prefers to render out as still frames..so you NEED an external composition package to make it into a movie file). When you get more advanced, these are especially helpfull after rendering out as layers (or "passes).
Not as easy as you thought it would all be eh? People love to assume that the computer does most of the work..hah!
Don't really worry about all of this yet..first get your feet wet with the basics of modeling and terminology. As time goes on you'll learn more about lights and cameras and textures (and the horrors of UV mapping)..and how to optimize your scenes. Ive been at this for about 11 years now and i still learn things. The programs have all changed (for better and worse) so you really have to keep up.
Here are a few sites to help you learn
www.3dcafe.com
www.highend3d.com
www.cgchannel.com
www.learningmaya.com
To help assist clearing things up..a render engine is basically how you get your 3d Objects into final graphics. So for example...how the lights, textures, and models interact with each other to provide the final image.
Every 3D program has a few parts. Usually like this:
Modeler (making polygons into objects)
Texturer (putting texture files on your objects to add realism)
Animator (to make everything move)
Renderer (To put the above 3 together for a more final output)
99% of the programs have these all integrated in the same program, so you normally dont think about how different and essential each is on their own.
Some render engines are faster than others, and some are better than others. Few are free, and as the old saying goes..you get what you pay for.
The advantage of having a 3rd party render engine (meaning a render engine not made by the same company that makes the 3D package) is USUALLY its cheaper to get multiple render licences. Essentially what that means is I can install the render engine on as many computeres that i own licences for, and render on each one..without needed to have the 3D package on each machine.
For example::
I own 3 licences for "turtle" (a new render engine). I only own 1 licence for Maya..so legally..I can only use it on one computer at a time. BUT..since i own 3 licences of Turtle..I can use up to 3 different computers at a time to render..thus tripleing the speed of my final product. Also, its nice to be able to render without having the 3D program open bogging down ram and CPU useage.
As for the other programs such as flint, flame, combustion, inferno, shake, after effects, premiere, digital fusion, composer, vegas, avid, and a bunch of others...
they are used as a "last step" before your final output. Basically..they are post production tools...effects you add after you render (thus saving a LOT of time)..and basically turning all your different clips into an animation. (Maya prefers to render out as still frames..so you NEED an external composition package to make it into a movie file). When you get more advanced, these are especially helpfull after rendering out as layers (or "passes).
Not as easy as you thought it would all be eh? People love to assume that the computer does most of the work..hah!
Don't really worry about all of this yet..first get your feet wet with the basics of modeling and terminology. As time goes on you'll learn more about lights and cameras and textures (and the horrors of UV mapping)..and how to optimize your scenes. Ive been at this for about 11 years now and i still learn things. The programs have all changed (for better and worse) so you really have to keep up.
Here are a few sites to help you learn
www.3dcafe.com
www.highend3d.com
www.cgchannel.com
www.learningmaya.com
mickhyperion
Active Member
I don't blame you for being confused. I think the information you've gotten, while all very accurate and useful someday, is kind of overkill, with all due respect to NowInc and Blizz. From your original post it sounds like you just want to get started in computer animation, not run out and render your first full length motion picture tomorrow. You have to walk before you can run, so put all this talk of renderers and compositing software out of your mind until you can simply animate and model in a program designed to do just that.dxer07002 said:
I've been using 3D Studio Max professionally for about 5 years now and have been dabbling with Maya at home for the last year. I don't use any outside renderers or compositors and seem to be able to make due alright. I don't work for Hollywood though, so perhaps my work would be considered primitive by comparison.
I already gave my spiel on Maya in a previous post, but I'll say again that I highly recommend it. Not only is it easy to learn, it's FREE to learn for an unlimited time, there is a wealth of tutorial material available online and in books, and you'll be learning an industry standard software package that will look pretty good on your resume if you decide you really like using it.
http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/products-services/family_details.jsp?familyId=3900009
Eventually learning all of the animation, rendering, and compositing software you can will only help you professionally or just to create really cool stuff on your own, but one piece of software will do you just fine for now. If Maya doesn't look like the way you want to go, just look for something that can offer you a fully functional demo without expiration so you have time to learn it.
Is it completely necessary to have Windows XP Pro instead of XP Home for all of these software titles???
NowInc
Well-Known Member
Also forgot to mention that your local book store should have tons of books regarding training with this software.
Mickhyperion is right..dont stress over all the other stuff right now..just focus on getting started with modeling and familiarizing yourself with the terminology surrounding the art.
Just try to remember its easy to get stuck with "bad habits"..but thankfully they are able to be un-learned when the time comes.
Mickhyperion is right..dont stress over all the other stuff right now..just focus on getting started with modeling and familiarizing yourself with the terminology surrounding the art.
Just try to remember its easy to get stuck with "bad habits"..but thankfully they are able to be un-learned when the time comes.
OK, so, now I downloaded PovRay... decided to go with that.. Umm,how do I work this program?? NowInc, any help would be appreciated and sorry for being a nag.
NowInc
Well-Known Member
Its not being a nag...i think also povray works on XP home
http://derakon.chainmailstore.com/povtute.html
http://library.thinkquest.org/3285/
http://www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/pov__eng.htm
http://www.huntfor.com/3d/tutorials/pov.htm
thats a good start. Google is your friend. Search for "POV RAY tutorials"
http://derakon.chainmailstore.com/povtute.html
http://library.thinkquest.org/3285/
http://www.f-lohmueller.de/pov_tut/pov__eng.htm
http://www.huntfor.com/3d/tutorials/pov.htm
thats a good start. Google is your friend. Search for "POV RAY tutorials"