City Commissioner Calls for Busing Riverbed Homeless Into Anaheim Resort

[Darkbeer1]

I am so lucky to live in this fine city...

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/11/...busing-riverbed-homeless-into-anaheim-resort/

>>This reckless suggestion is the response of Houchen (and apparently other homeless “advocates”) to the County of Orange’s announced intention to actually require the homeless campers living on the Santa Ana River Trail to obey the law like everyone else. Houchen makes a throwaway concern for “the safety of concerned residents” at the end of the comment, but its abundantly clear that the safety of residents is a low priority for the homeless advocates. When push comes to shove, they always come down on the side of accommodating the homeless encampments at the expense of residents and businesses which are increasingly impacted by the crime, vandalism and drug use emanating from the SART encampments.

Houchen’s proposal to bus the homeless into the Resort Area is a totally crackpot idea. Even if it’s tongue in cheek , it reveals a contempt for the great silent majority of residents who object to subordinating the safety of their neighborhoods to the priorities of the homeless advocates. Houchen’s views certainly run counter to those of the vast majority of District 5 residents.

Not that we should be surprised to hear it. Houchen’s fellow advocate Mike Robbins has compared to Nazis and David Duke those Anaheim residents who object to the advocates’ brand of untethered, tunnel-vision compassion. And of course, both of these gentlemen are on Councilman Jose F. Moreno’s Homeless Policy Working Group – which certainly doesn’t inspire confidence Moreno’s endeavor will generate recommendations that are based in a common sense or an apprehension of reality.<<

 

[DLR92]

I don't know what and how this is going to solve issues of diverting the homeless form the river trail to Anaheim Resort area. His proposal sounds tactless.

I booked a hotel at Desert Palms last Sunday, I watch from the window and walk around the area, I just felt sad for them. I don't think every homeless should be viewed as no good/threat.

 

[Pixieish]

I don't know what and how this is going to solve issues of diverting the homeless form the river trail to Anaheim Resort area. His proposal sounds tactless.

I booked a hotel at Desert Palms last Sunday, I watch from the window and walk around the area, I just felt sad for them. I don't think every homeless should be viewed as no good/threat.

Some people actually choose to be homeless, too...they may not appreciate being re-located or fussed with in any way.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I don't know what and how this is going to solve issues of diverting the homeless form the river trail to Anaheim Resort area. His proposal sounds tactless.

I booked a hotel at Desert Palms last Sunday, I watch from the window and walk around the area, I just felt sad for them. I don't think every homeless should be viewed as no good/threat.

I've been homeless. Not everyone who ends up on the street is a murderer/criminal/drug user etc.

Fact is, southern California is where many homeless end up due of the weather.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Any discussion of homelessness that doesn't delve into the complex issues related to this subject is irresponsible. There are many cities and organizations addressing these issues in very effective ways. Dehumanizing homeless people accomplishes nothing.

Moreover, making light of this situation or taking cheap shots on a Disney fan board is ridiculous. There are a lot of Disney CMs who are struggling to achieve stable housing. And many on public assistance. Not everyone who wants to address this issue is simply a loony lefty bleeding heart who wants to "coddle or indulge lazy people who won't pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" as the cliche goes.

Homelessness is a symptom of societal problems, including economic difficulty, mental health, and short-term problems that become exacerbated into long-term ones. Leaving it to fester is bad for the community. Ignorance is not bliss.

I've lived in several major cities. I certainly don't like being confronted with the many antisocial behaviors than can occur with a large homeless population. But I also know the solutions are difficult and require real work by serious people. It needs humility, kindness, and strength of character.

I encourage everyone I know to listen to people who are dealing effectively with this problem. Learn about the complexities. Decide for yourself what you think is effecting positive change. But please, don't just dismiss the problem out of hand. It is a public health crisis that is only growing worse. And don't dehumanize these people. Whether they have made bad choices or are there through no fault of their own, they are still people. It's possible to have "tough love" without dehumanizing yourself.

 

[Pixieish]

Any discussion of homelessness that doesn't delve into the complex issues related to this subject is irresponsible. There are many cities and organizations addressing these issues in very effective ways. Dehumanizing homeless people accomplishes nothing.

Moreover, making light of this situation or taking cheap shots on a Disney fan board is ridiculous. There are a lot of Disney CMs who are struggling to achieve stable housing. And many on public assistance. Not everyone who wants to address this issue is simply a loony lefty bleeding heart who wants to "coddle or indulge lazy people who won't pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" as the cliche goes.

Homelessness is a symptom of societal problems, including economic difficulty, mental health, and short-term problems that become exacerbated into long-term ones. Leaving it to fester is bad for the community. Ignorance is not bliss.

I've lived in several major cities. I certainly don't like being confronted with the many antisocial behaviors than can occur with a large homeless population. But I also know the solutions are difficult and require real work by serious people. It needs humility, kindness, and strength of character.

I encourage everyone I know to listen to people who are dealing effectively with this problem. Learn about the complexities. Decide for yourself what you think is effecting positive change. But please, don't just dismiss the problem out of hand. It is a public health crisis that is only growing worse. And don't dehumanize these people. Whether they have made bad choices or are there through no fault of their own, they are still people. It's possible to have "tough love" without dehumanizing yourself.

I agree 100%. Especially on the mental health front. However, that being said, I've tried, and know people who have tried to help some homeless people (my step-father has a large presence in AA and is an addiction therapist at a state prison) and there are instances in which help really isn't wanted. Another huge issue many fail to take into account is - when there is addiction involved - where do you draw the line? There are limited resources, and as anyone who watches documentary television knows, when addiction is involved very often you're not looking at a one-and-done treatment, and sometimes even a life-time of treatment isn't enough. Is it fair to others who need help to throw (to put it bluntly) good money after bad?

I blame the government, big-business, and big banks for the majority of those who are working and unable to make ends meet - the cost of housing has increased from around $50,000 in a very nice neighborhood in the 1970s to $260,000 in a comparable neighborhood in the early 2000s, but pay rates have stayed stagnant. The Federal government's idea of what constitutes poverty is a joke. The middle class is disappearing. We've devalued the trades in favor of tech and science, and yet we complain that we can't buy quality furniture at a decent price anymore. Let's face it - America is a bloody mess and it needs fixing, but no one on Capitol Hill will ever rock the boat enough to affect the real kind of change needed. It all boils down to greed.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Charity is the answer. Volunteering for MM for the community service hours I needed in Boy Scouts was one of the most eye opening experiences I've ever had. It showed me there's two sides to every coin and that I am an extremely lucky person. Understanding how lucky I am has driven me to work hard which wouldn't have happened if I wasn't exposed to this problem.

 

[Ismael Flores]

charity is not always the solution. We started having issues in my neighborhood because of homeless people. Some of them started getting aggressive.

Because of laws they were protected unless it became a motive of harassment. Some business started shutting down because the homeless would congregate in the area. The amount of filled and trash grew until it got tin the point that many did start being called in for aggressive harrassment.
The city started documenting all these homeless and found that close to 69 percent were actually not homeless and actually lived the life’s of homeless for a few weeks so they could collect funding without paying tax. Many were found to make up to 1,000 a week from charity. Others that were legitamte homeless had been put in buses and trains from Los Angeles as a way to get rid of them.

One of the nearby cities, actually created a huge homeless development with family tents and full bathroom facilities. Within monthst the place had been over run by hundreds. The city had to start documenting them and found that word had spread and people had bussed in and road trains to live in this camp grounds for free with free food and services from other cities and many were people that found it easier to cancel their apartment leases and live off the city. Many were found to be capable of work but had found it easier to fall into a life of drugs and free care.
Meanwhile those that are really In need don’t get it.

Charity is not always the solution but many times just adds to the problem.
My motto is if someone asks me for money because they are hungry then I instead ask them to what they would like to eat if they ask for money again then I ignore. I have worked with groups to help people and he worst thing anyone can do is give anyone charity on the treats that involve some money. Majority of times it’s put to bad use and you are just adding to their problems. Many of those being alcohol and drug abuse.
Or has anyone noticed how many homeless now walk around with expensive cellphones, too Of they line bicycles and or backpacks. That really tells a lot

 

[Pixieish]

charity is not always the solution. We started having issues in my neighborhood because of homeless people. Some of them started getting aggressive.

Because of laws they were protected unless it became a motive of harassment. Some business started shutting down because the homeless would congregate in the area. The amount of filled and trash grew until it got tin the point that many did start being called in for aggressive harrassment.
The city started documenting all these homeless and found that close to 69 percent were actually not homeless and actually lived the life’s of homeless for a few weeks so they could collect funding without paying tax. Many were found to make up to 1,000 a week from charity. Others that were legitamte homeless had been put in buses and trains from Los Angeles as a way to get rid of them.

One of the nearby cities, actually created a huge homeless development with family tents and full bathroom facilities. Within monthst the place had been over run by hundreds. The city had to start documenting them and found that word had spread and people had bussed in and road trains to live in this camp grounds for free with free food and services from other cities and many were people that found it easier to cancel their apartment leases and live off the city. Many were found to be capable of work but had found it easier to fall into a life of drugs and free care.
Meanwhile those that are really In need don’t get it.

Charity is not always the solution but many times just adds to the problem.
My motto is if someone asks me for money because they are hungry then I instead ask them to what they would like to eat if they ask for money again then I ignore. I have worked with groups to help people and he worst thing anyone can do is give anyone charity on the treats that involve some money. Majority of times it’s put to bad use and you are just adding to their problems. Many of those being alcohol and drug abuse.
Or has anyone noticed how many homeless now walk around with expensive cellphones, too Of they line bicycles and or backpacks. That really tells a lot

I won't give them money either. There are a couple of aggressive panhandlers in our town that are heroin addicts - they drive a huge, new SUV and will lose their minds screaming at you if you offer anything that isn't cash or a gift card that is usable as cash.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

One of the nearby cities, actually created a huge homeless development with family tents and full bathroom facilities. Within monthst the place had been over run by hundreds. The city had to start documenting them and found that word had spread and people had bussed in and road trains to live in this camp grounds for free with free food and services from other cities and many were people that found it easier to cancel their apartment leases and live off the city. Many were found to be capable of work but had found it easier to fall into a life of drugs and free care.

I'm curious where this is. I ask because there's been talk of doing something like this in SF. Berkeley established a setup like this as a solution to homelessness in that city and I've heard it's had mixed results.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Here is one proposed for Anaheim.

http://www.alfrescogardens.org/

Of course, some don't like it.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/0...bbying-her-own-solution-for-homeless-housing/

>>Garrow has heard from other homeless advocates about Alfresco Gardens. Though she’s never heard West’s actual presentation, Garrow expressed concerns.

“If this is just a parking lot, I’m not sure if the tents are temperature controlled, but it doesn’t sound like an appropriate response or policy solution especially for the most vulnerable homeless people,” Garrow said. “The community restroom could be a health hazard.”

“We have to get away from this thinking that we are enabling the homeless,” Garrow said. “Everyone should have running water, a bed and a roof over their head.”<<

 

[Ismael Flores]

I'm curious where this is. I ask because there's been talk of doing something like this in SF. Berkeley established a setup like this as a solution to homelessness in that city and I've heard it's had mixed results.

The city of Pomona, has a large area of land that was at one point going to be a large residential site. The infrastructure was placed with streets and some foundations but then the crash stopped it from continuing. It is right next to the Ontario Airport and it is a huge area.

The city built fencing around a couple blocks, brought in semi permanent bathroom facilities and washrooms and set up nicely organized tents. They also place hammocks and regularly supplied food. the place started with a few handful of people then all of a sudden the place literally looked like a hug settlement. there were even people staying there that had cars parked a couple streets down. At one point Myself and a couple friends decided to go help out pass out food and we started noticing some of these people dressed like they hadn't bath in days pulling out iphones and other expensive phones. We even noticed a lady getting the food that was donated to her put in a stolen shopping cart roll out of the place and walk a block before getting loading the food into a Audi that was no more than two years old. we went and reported it and it was found that she did this for a living, went to different charity places collected food and was living off money and food tax free.

It is quite sad because there are people that need it but that along with other situations i encounter made me realize that money and hand outs are not ideal solution.
I don't know how many times i have asked people not to give money to panhandlers, sounds wrong but it really doesn't help them. Best thing to do is to carry information of a place that would help them and offer it to them. If they refuse or get angry then just walk away.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

The city of Pomona, has a large area of land that was at one point going to be a large residential site. The infrastructure was placed with streets and some foundations but then the crash stopped it from continuing. It is right next to the Ontario Airport and it is a huge area.

The city built fencing around a couple blocks, brought in semi permanent bathroom facilities and washrooms and set up nicely organized tents. They also place hammocks and regularly supplied food. the place started with a few handful of people then all of a sudden the place literally looked like a hug settlement. there were even people staying there that had cars parked a couple streets down. At one point Myself and a couple friends decided to go help out pass out food and we started noticing some of these people dressed like they hadn't bath in days pulling out iphones and other expensive phones. We even noticed a lady getting the food that was donated to her put in a stolen shopping cart roll out of the place and walk a block before getting loading the food into a Audi that was no more than two years old. we went and reported it and it was found that she did this for a living, went to different charity places collected food and was living off money and food tax free.

It is quite sad because there are people that need it but that along with other situations i encounter made me realize that money and hand outs are not ideal solution.
I don't know how many times i have asked people not to give money to panhandlers, sounds wrong but it really doesn't help them. Best thing to do is to carry information of a place that would help them and offer it to them. If they refuse or get angry then just walk away.

The whole situation with homelessness in California is depressing to me because fixing it is so vexing. No one seems to know the right remedy. I saw a documentary short a few years ago about a group of random homeless people who had established a semi-sustainable living situation by dwelling in campers and cars in the long-term parking lot at LAX.

 

[Pixieish]

The whole situation with homelessness in California is depressing to me because fixing it is so vexing. No one seems to know the right remedy. I saw a documentary short a few years ago about a group of random homeless people who had established a semi-sustainable living situation by dwelling in campers and cars in the long-term parking lot at LAX.

It's really very sad. We're in MA, and there's a church in town that opens a shelter every winter they can afford to, and locals have taken up hanging scarves, hats and mittens on fences where the homeless will find them. You don't see them often, but our town has a surprisingly large homeless population (some of them camp-out in the woods and/or state forest.)

 

[Ismael Flores]

The whole situation with homelessness in California is depressing to me because fixing it is so vexing. No one seems to know the right remedy. I saw a documentary short a few years ago about a group of random homeless people who had established a semi-sustainable living situation by dwelling in campers and cars in the long-term parking lot at LAX.

It is very depressing, I recall a few years back when March Air Force base closed in the Inland Empire. Thousands of homes were left abandoned when the military and families moved out. It was a surreal. The first thing that came to my mind was

Why not use the land to create a sustainable village for veterans and/or people in need. Instead the whole neighborhood sat dormant for months until one day when dozens of troops and tankers where brought back in. I couldn’t believe that they used this perfectly sustainable town as a practice area using tanks and military to basically destroy the place within days. The whole place sat for a while then cleared and last time I drove by there awhile back sat as a huge empty land.

Meanwhile just across the street is the veteran cemeteries that occasionally has homeless vets looking for a place to stay warm

 

[TP2000]

Any discussion of homelessness that doesn't delve into the complex issues related to this subject is irresponsible. There are many cities and organizations addressing these issues in very effective ways. Dehumanizing homeless people accomplishes nothing.

Don't know that anyone here has tried to dehumanize them. Interestingly, the OC Sheriff's Department just went through the entire Santa Ana Riverbed homeless population in Anaheim, and 83% of those living there refused any offer of assistance with housing and social help. They'd rather live there for free than move into one of the many shelters or assistance facilities in operation in OC now. http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/10/31/13690/

Of the 17% who were willing to accept social services to move out of the riverbed, it's unclear how many actually took up the offer from the taxpayers and charity providers to help.

Charity is not always the solution. We started having issues in my neighborhood because of homeless people. Some of them started getting aggressive.

Many of them are addicted to drugs. Once you go down that road, drug-addicted and living on the streets, it's very hard to maneuver that person back into safe and sane productive society.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Glad we didn't by that River Trail house years ago.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Don't know that anyone here has tried to dehumanize them. Interestingly, the OC Sheriff's Department just went through the entire Santa Ana Riverbed homeless population in Anaheim, and 83% of those living there refused any offer of assistance with housing and social help. They'd rather live there for free than move into one of the many shelters or assistance facilities in operation in OC now. http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/10/31/13690/

Of the 17% who were willing to accept social services to move out of the riverbed, it's unclear how many actually took up the offer from the taxpayers and charity providers to help.



Many of them are addicted to drugs. Once you go down that road, drug-addicted and living on the streets, it's very hard to maneuver that person back into safe and sane productive society.

That may all be true. But my point still stands--you need to go beneath the surface and learn about what people are doing over the long term. There are many layers to this problem and in requires more than a cursory read of one or two stories. The alternative is to ignore it and let it take its own course on its own. YMMV.

But thank you to everyone for the thoughtful and measured responses.

 

[FigmentForver96]

The sad truth is there will never be a day where homelessness will go away, but while we can never rid the world of it , we can help those in need. Everyone can play a part in helping and I think a big piece is really developing relationships with people...let me explain.

Here in my city, there is a park in the historic downtown area where the homeless typically stay during the day. The businesses call the cops if they even wander near a store to try and "force" them away from the area never taking into account that these are people just like you and me. Now there is a difference between someone minding their own business and then those who are always drunk or doing drugs and causing problems. Some people just can't be helped no matter what you do, they don't want it.

I partner with my church and we weekly go out and pass out water but also sit and develop actual relationships. We talk to them, get to know them, and meet them in their need. If they are hungry I don't give them a $20 but go and buy them food and I will often eat with them and just talk with them. No agenda, just love. Remind them that they are people and that if they remain confident then things will get better. We've even partnered with Starbucks and once a month we actually go out and give coffee in the morning time. Even this week we've rallied with so many people in the city to donate blankets and jackets for winter.

I don't say all this to brag but that showing real love and genuine care for someone makes a difference in their life and yours. It encourages them to not give up and keep trying. To fight another day. That they are valued and worth something even though life got tough. Sometimes we can't wait for someone else to act, you have to be the change you want to see in the world. Sometimes it's messy and sometimes it's inconvient but in the end it's worth it.

Not sure if I actually contributed to this discussion but to the main point, not sure what moving them will do in the long run.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I've done some service this this too.