News Character Spot, Innoventions and more to close in September

[The Empress Lilly]

Pop quiz everyone.

Generally speaking and putting a year on things...

What year did Epcot begin it's rapid dissent into an identity crisis?

Stupid Judy we'll start with you.

My answer is 1983, absurd as that may sound. Eisner got in on an anti-EPCOT agenda, and delivered on it.

In 1982, Disney was a theme park company. With an ailing studio and some side stuff. Three theme parks, one of which the world's largest private construction project. Disney all but was EPCOT at this point. And EPCOT was something entirely new for Disney. Really just a few creatives using all the creative and financial power of Disney for a hobby project. It was the idealistic 1970s, creativity needed to have meaning, social relevance, bring about a better world. And so they were going to muster Disney's prowess to chance the world. Create the future. In the relative power vacuum of the decade after the Disney Brothers' death they could do it too.

Eisner called it all absurd. Ended it. Turned Disney into a media company. Into a behemoth. One only interested in shareholder value. A company uninterested in EPCOT and its project from day one. EPCOT was born an orphan.

 

[Eärendil]

I don't completely agree with that.

I think that they were robbed of a better experience and anger from the cheap seats is misdirected.

Anger from the cheap seats?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

So if we don't feel the same way you folks do, we aren't true WDW fans? Good to know.

The classic Spirit quote applies: "There are two kinds of WDW fans. Those who know EPCOT Center, and those who don't".

The years have turned into decades, 1982 is a long time ago, and the above is not a reproach. The former are like Tolkien's Elves, we inevitably diminish and will soon sail to the west. We take with us a memory, eyes that have seen magic and beauty beyond the comprehension of those that will take our place, for this magic no longer forms part of this World.

 

[AVAC Juice]

My answer is 1983, absurd as that may sound. Eisner got in on an anti-EPCOT agenda, and delivered on it.

In 1982, Disney was a theme park company. With an ailing studio and some side stuff. Three theme parks, one of which the world's largest private construction project. Disney all but was EPCOT at this point. And EPCOT was something entirely new for Disney. Really just a few creatives using all the creative and financial power of Disney for a hobby project. It was the idealistic 1970s, creativity needed to have meaning, social relevance, bring about a better world. And so they were going to muster Disney's prowess to chance the world. Create the future. In the relative power vacuum of the decade after the Disney Brothers' death they could do it too.

Eisner called it all absurd. Ended it. Turned Disney into a media company. Into a behemoth. One only interested in shareholder value. A company uninterested in EPCOT and its project from day one. EPCOT was born an orphan.

Thank you Empress Lilly. You're words are often lost on these forums assumely.

I can assure you that they resininate with many of us as concrete truth and solid American foundation if ever.

Happy 4th.

 

[AVAC Juice]

Anger from the cheap seats?

Yes. A Lesser EPCOT Center experience.

Actually. The cheap seats aren't so cheap as/ to the modern Epcot experience.

BTW.
What was the offence taken with cheap seats?

 

[Sabriel]

I usually take a wait and see approach on these things. As others have mentioned, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle, but man, does losing the fountain sting. Hopefully this is temporary or they’ll scrap that particular plan, because otherwise this is going to be like when they remodeled the lobby at the Poly.

 

[jt04]

JT, I am able to tolerate quite a bit from you, but they are destroying the heart and soul of Walt Disney World. Magic Kingdom is a lot of fun and all and I miss the trees in the Hub, but Disney World was built to house EPCOT. The Epcot we got was more theme park than what Walt envisioned, but it was still inspirational, reflective, eye-opening, gorgeous, and daring because it was different from any theme park anywhere else. You stepped in and knew Disney was the best in the business and you were lucky enough to be visiting the flagship of their empire.

There’s no question that the park is dated. But it is such a masterpiece of a park that needed updates should have been made with a fine brush and a steady hand. Instead they are taking a jack-hammer to it and removing everything that made the park unique in the first place.

It is a devastating loss to any true Walt Disney World fan.

Imagine Disney tearing out Sleeping Beauty Castle in Disneyland and placing Snow White’s Beer Garden in its place.

With each successive change in the park over the last 20 years (its been declining longer than it was at its peak, now), they’ve removed something special and I’ve thought, “well, at least x, y, and z remain.” Very little remains any more. In terms of attractions, Spaceship Earth is still pretty good, The Seas, Living with the Land are about it for the original fans. What’s left is the architecture. Which they are destroying.

You make a great case.

A lot of long time fans of the LBV Shopping Village can detail how great it was. Some think that PI was an improvement. Some don't. Same can be said about Disney Springs in comparison to each.

So eventually we may see an Epcot that is as different from the 1982 version as Disney Springs is from the LBV Shopping Village.

Maybe they will succeed in a similar manner. I'm staying optimistic.

 

[AVAC Juice]

Still. Nobody has answered my 2 part pop quiz.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

So is the beer garden a for sure thing? Or still just vague rumor at this point?

Here is @MisterPenguin map. @marni1971 Is this the direction Team Disney is taking Epcot??

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

JT, I am able to tolerate quite a bit from you, but they are destroying the heart and soul of Walt Disney World. Magic Kingdom is a lot of fun and all and I miss the trees in the Hub, but Disney World was built to house EPCOT. The Epcot we got was more theme park than what Walt envisioned, but it was still inspirational, reflective, eye-opening, gorgeous, and daring because it was different from any theme park anywhere else. You stepped in and knew Disney was the best in the business and you were lucky enough to be visiting the flagship of their empire.

There’s no question that the park is dated. But it is such a masterpiece of a park that needed updates should have been made with a fine brush and a steady hand. Instead they are taking a jack-hammer to it and removing everything that made the park unique in the first place.

It is a devastating loss to any true Walt Disney World fan.

Imagine Disney tearing out Sleeping Beauty Castle in Disneyland and placing Snow White’s Beer Garden in its place.

With each successive change in the park over the last 20 years (its been declining longer than it was at its peak, now), they’ve removed something special and I’ve thought, “well, at least x, y, and z remain.” Very little remains any more. In terms of attractions, Spaceship Earth is still pretty good, The Seas, Living with the Land are about it for the original fans. What’s left is the architecture. Which they are destroying.

Epcot is the greatest themepark ever built. It was bold and inventive and risky and had a confidence in the audience never really seen anywhere on earth before or after...

The fact that Disney has complained about the operational costs for 25+ years and now are on the path to abandoning the theme is near tragic. In fact -Not a dollar has been lost on it.

Let’s just hope relocated. The entire spine is being redesigned so probably had to go from it’s currenr location for that work. Hoping it’s relocated elsewhere, maybe somewhere else in the resdesigned spine.

What do you think the legitimate chances of that are? Since it cannot be monetized in anyway.

So if we don't feel the same way you folks do, we aren't true WDW fans? Good to know.

No...but there are many that obsess about Disney and it parks - and a lot are employees as well - and live in Orlando and go constantly...nothing new or wrong there...

What MB is saying is it’s not necessary to be an apologetic twit about it and schill for Disney. On a management level - they don’t care and laugh at how silly we look when we follow them around with a pooper scooper.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here is @MisterPenguin map. @marni1971 Is this the direction Team Disney is taking Epcot??
View attachment 386303

You’ll know when and if they tell you...stay tuned

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

You might joke but concept art plan for grass and trees.

I'd rather see nothing there rather than once great buildings horribly underimagined.

It's slightly less insulting to the greats that envisioned and built EPCOT Center.

If the Fountain survives it will be a nice spot to match a show

 

[HauntedPirate]

I’m still trying to figure out JT’s statement that removing the fountain will somehow improve traffic flow in the area. Umm... they’re putting in a beer garden. Keep thinking whatever traffic flow issues you believe are there will get any better. Maybe you should also buy some swampland a few miles down the road.

 

[jt04]

I’m still trying to figure out JT’s statement that removing the fountain will somehow improve traffic flow in the area. Umm... they’re putting in a beer garden. Keep thinking whatever traffic flow issues you believe are there will get any better. Maybe you should also buy some swampland a few miles down the road.

The beer garden has been debunked. At least in that location.

The fountain acts as a barrier. Few guests have chosen to walk through it to get to the other side. Although I am sure a few have tried.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

The beer garden has been debunked. At least in that location.

The fountain acts as a barrier. Few guests have chosen to walk through it to get to the other side. Although I am sure a few have tried.

When was it debunked?? Do you have a link??

 

[jt04]

When was it debunked?? Do you have a link??

It wouldn't work even if I did links to other Disney fan sites. Which I rarely do.

D23 will provide the answers you seek.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The beer garden has been debunked. At least in that location.

The fountain acts as a barrier. Few guests have chosen to walk through it to get to the other side. Although I am sure a few have tried.

When was it debunked?? Do you have a link??

That's news to me, too.

 

[Magic Feather]

Heard something interesting about the proposed beer garden. I still have a few more people to check with, but there may be good news.

 

[*Q*]

So if we don't feel the same way you folks do, we aren't true WDW fans? Good to know.

I'd say that just makes you more of a fan of Bob Iger World than you are of Walt Disney World.

 

[MrPromey]

Personally, I'd sacrifice another family-friendly feature in a heartbeat. We dont need another bucket of crayons and a stereotypical character on a popsicle stick at every different area.

Except I'm not sure that's what I'd call Club Cool.