News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[rle4lunch]

You think they're waiting since film 4 could be based on the land and theme.

Perhaps. They're doing the same thing with the millennium falcon mission with grogu and Mando, so you may be onto something

 

[Casper Gutman]

Correct.

But once a geographical 'frontier' got 'settled,' it was no longer "The Frontier." At one time, Virginia was "The Frontier" to Colonialists. Then, it got 'settled.'

Part of the 'settling' of a 'frontier' was not only taming nature (building farms, herding herd animals, killing predators), but 'taming' the Native Population -- which is a shame of our nation's heritage. All the Old West movies that were around when I was growing up were about beating the Indians without mentioning that their land was being taken from them. But hey, it's "The Frontier" (without thinking a lick about what it actually was).

Then there's the absurdity of Americans not know American history -- not only in regard to the Native Population -- but thinking anything from the 1800s is "The Frontier."

Diamond Horseshoe is not "The Frontier." St. Louis Missouri was settled at the time of Riverboats. It wasn't a lawless outpost afraid of wolf or Indian attacks or banditos. A Mississippi Riverboat isn't The Frontier. Tom Sawyer isn't the Frontier. Reconstruction Georgia (Splash Mountain) wasn't "The Frontier." Bears singing songs from the 1950s and 1960s isn't "The Frontier."

Defending Frontierland as actually representing "The Frontier" even in a fantastical story-telling device is just a display of historical ignorance.

And if one wants to defend the fantastical version of a theme parks frontier in that it doesn't have to be realistic or historical, then one shouldn't blanch at attractions that lean into the fantastical like TBA or Piston Peak. Don't say Frontierland is a fantasy and then claim a new fantastical element doesn't adhere to the reality of The Frontier -- a reality that Frontierland never truly represented.

But what do I know. I'm just a pixie dusting shill that always defend everything Disney does. Look how I just defended Frontierland!!

This is a breathtakingly arrogant and condescending post. This board is full of very informed posters, and I guarantee many are more versed in American history than you. No one on these boards is unaware of the atrocities committed against Native Populations. If you feel that historical reality calls for the expunging of “Frontierland” and its replacement by something new, fine. That’s a very reasonable position and one I feel might have merit. But all you seem to be doing here is invoking genuinely tragic history to justify a thoughtless corporate policy driven by a cynical dedication to an IP-focused business strategy.

You’re also mixing up popular and academic notions of the “frontier” as it suits your purpose. Missouri, riverboats, the Mississippi, and the works of Mark Twain are absolutely part of the popular idea of “the west” or “the frontier.” Reconstruction Georgia does not fit that popular notion, but that context comes from the source and was entirely absent from the text of the ride, and the steamboat finale attempts to allign the entire ride with popular visions of the west. Talking cars, however, are diametrically opposed to any popular understanding of the west - they are a machine in the garden, the sort of things against which the “west” is defined.

Now, if you want to have an academic discussion of the “frontier,” we can all put on our Frederick Jackson Turner hats and dig in - but that conversation would be largely meaningless to the theme park version of reality (and “Frontierland” wouldn’t fit anyway).

And believe me, no one is surprised that you will denigrate any element of classic Disney to defend the company’s present actions.

 

[MisterPenguin]

And believe me, no one is surprised that you will denigrate any element of classic Disney to defend the company’s present actions.

It's no surprise you can't recall any criticism on my part of current Disney.

 

[Blobbles]

This is a breathtakingly arrogant and condescending post. This board is full of very informed posters, and I guarantee many are more versed in American history than you. No one on these boards is unaware of the atrocities committed against Native Populations. If you feel that historical reality calls for the expunging of “Frontierland” and its replacement by something new, fine. That’s a very reasonable position and one I feel might have merit. But all you seem to be doing here is invoking genuinely tragic history to justify a thoughtless corporate policy driven by a cynical dedication to an IP-focused business strategy.

You’re also mixing up popular and academic notions of the “frontier” as it suits your purpose. Missouri, riverboats, the Mississippi, and the works of Mark Twain are absolutely part of the popular idea of “the west” or “the frontier.” Reconstruction Georgia does not fit that popular notion, but that context comes from the source and was entirely absent from the text of the ride, and the steamboat finale attempts to allign the entire ride with popular visions of the west. Talking cars, however, are diametrically opposed to any popular understanding of the west - they are a machine in the garden, the sort of things against which the “west” is defined.

Now, if you want to have an academic discussion of the “frontier,” we can all put on our Frederick Jackson Turner hats and dig in - but that conversation would be largely meaningless to the theme park version of reality (and “Frontierland” wouldn’t fit anyway).

And believe me, no one is surprised that you will denigrate any element of classic Disney to defend the company’s present actions.

I think a northwest themed mountainous area will be pretty cool, and be very pretty. And the cars ride looks like it’ll be fun.

 

[Bocabear]

I think a northwest themed mountainous area will be pretty cool, and be very pretty. And the cars ride looks like it’ll be fun.

But it is not really, is it? It will be mountains shaped like car parts... cars with googly eyes ...a loud off road rally race next to the Haunted mansion and the late 19th century runaway mining train... Would I be against this if it were say, at Hollywood Studios or replacing the Speedway ( where it would be equally out of place? not as much... It is a perfect fit for Hollywood Studios...Just not in this location... and yes, it would be pretty cool...just not there.

 

[Blobbles]

But it is not really, is it? It will be mountains shaped like car parts... cars with googly eyes ...a loud off road rally race next to the Haunted mansion and the late 19th century runaway mining train... Would I be against this if it were say, at Hollywood Studios or replacing the Speedway ( where it would be equally out of place? not as much... It is a perfect fit for Hollywood Studios...Just not in this location... and yes, it would be pretty cool...just not there.

The country bears sing Disney songs now, and the New Orleans bayou is next to big Thunder. That ship has already sailed.

 

[JoeCamel]

The country bears sing Disney songs now, and the New Orleans bayou is next to big Thunder. That ship has already sailed.

Well if it's on fire already let's just burn it all down.....

 

[JD80]

This is a breathtakingly arrogant and condescending post.

My guy, look in a mirror some time.

 

[Disnutz311]

I am not sure if anyone has posted or seen this video, but it helped me put a few things in perspective. I for one don't want to lose ROA and it seems like that is the largest sticking point for some, but this guy makes some valid points of WDW complete letting go of proper maintenance of the island, Twain, and docks. TSI I get the reasoning to remove it and this video proves it and I am good with that loss in a way.

It's too bad they won't put the bulk of the Cars Land Beyond BTMR and have a tunnel go under the river (Like in Disneyland Paris) and have people riding through mountains/scenery on the island or something. Keeping the river. That would be Epic! (Too Soon?)

 

[Bocabear]

So because they are not maintaining the boat and island it should be removed rather than being actually maintained properly? Why has our version of Tom Sawyer's Island not had the additions and care the Disneyland version has? Then I felt like the argument went out the window...I get it you grew up at Disneyland and don't care so much about WDW... And again, they have the property...there is still no reason they could not find the space for it without completely destroying the fabric of the park.... the other argument that adding another huge capacity attraction in the Magic Kingdom would somehow reduce the crowds and congestion in the park doesn't make sense at all... But I am glad he is excited about it...I would be excited about it at DHS...

 

[Horizons '83]

So because they are not maintaining the boat and island it should be removed rather than being actually maintained properly? Why has our version of Tom Sawyer's Island not had the additions and care the Disneyland version has? Then I felt like the argument went out the window...I get it you grew up at Disneyland and don't care so much about WDW... And again, they have the property...there is still no reason they could not find the space for it without completely destroying the fabric of the park.... the other argument that adding another huge capacity attraction in the Magic Kingdom would somehow reduce the crowds and congestion in the park doesn't make sense at all... But I am glad he is excited about it...I would be excited about it at DHS...

I'll be honest, the only reason I am opposed to their removal is based purely on atheistic and not the attractions themselves. This isn't a good enough reason for them to keep them. I don't like it, but that is how this company runs now.

 

[Disnutz311]

So because they are not maintaining the boat and island it should be removed rather than being actually maintained properly? Why has our version of Tom Sawyer's Island not had the additions and care the Disneyland version has? Then I felt like the argument went out the window...I get it you grew up at Disneyland and don't care so much about WDW... And again, they have the property...there is still no reason they could not find the space for it without completely destroying the fabric of the park.... the other argument that adding another huge capacity attraction in the Magic Kingdom would somehow reduce the crowds and congestion in the park doesn't make sense at all... But I am glad he is excited about it...I would be excited about it at DHS...

I understand what you are saying. To properly fix what they have let go seems to not be worth it to Disney. I think that is what he is saying. It is the sad current state. We know they will remove Tom Sawyer IP at some point and they don't want to fix their maintenance mistakes.

Having grown up WDW, what I was saying is that I wish they keep ROA and Twain. I can live without TSI and a Disneyland Paris BTMR vibe where it starts from Beyond BTMR and uses the island would be cool. Too costly for the Disney company these days. Adding ride capacity will help with crowd control to an extent.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

I usually like "Brickey's" takes, but for a designer, it's quite remarkable that he would understate (only mentioning it in passing near the end) the aesthetic/emotional value of the river. The reason Disney has been so popular for so long is, in substantial part, the ambiance... how it feels. The river is central to the holistic experience of being transported to... well... a Magic Kingdom. I'm sure GSRs/attendance/spending will reflect an initial positive response to the new area, but in the longer term, it will reduce what makes Disney stand out - which is precisely the wrong direction to go in right now.

 

[BrianLo]

There is no name that can unify what Frontierland has become. You'd wind up with meaningless nonsense like "World Celebration."

Fantasyland!

 

[NotCalledBob]

Is the only area that is arguably better at MK Tomorrowland with Tron? And even that is debatable?

Tomorrowland at MK is better because it has a functioning Peoplemover (and the Carousel of Progress).

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Correct.

But once a geographical 'frontier' got 'settled,' it was no longer "The Frontier." At one time, Virginia was "The Frontier" to Colonialists. Then, it got 'settled.'

Part of the 'settling' of a 'frontier' was not only taming nature (building farms, herding herd animals, killing predators), but 'taming' the Native Population -- which is a shame of our nation's heritage. All the Old West movies that were around when I was growing up were about beating the Indians without mentioning that their land was being taken from them. But hey, it's "The Frontier" (without thinking a lick about what it actually was).

Then there's the absurdity of Americans not know American history -- not only in regard to the Native Population -- but thinking anything from the 1800s is "The Frontier."

Diamond Horseshoe is not "The Frontier." St. Louis Missouri was settled at the time of Riverboats. It wasn't a lawless outpost afraid of wolf or Indian attacks or banditos. A Mississippi Riverboat isn't The Frontier. Tom Sawyer isn't the Frontier. Reconstruction Georgia (Splash Mountain) wasn't "The Frontier." Bears singing songs from the 1950s and 1960s isn't "The Frontier."

Defending Frontierland as actually representing "The Frontier" even in a fantastical story-telling device is just a display of historical ignorance.

And if one wants to defend the fantastical version of a theme parks frontier in that it doesn't have to be realistic or historical, then one shouldn't blanch at attractions that lean into the fantastical like TBA or Piston Peak. Don't say Frontierland is a fantasy and then claim a new fantastical element doesn't adhere to the reality of The Frontier -- a reality that Frontierland never truly represented.

But what do I know. I'm just a pixie dusting shill that always defend everything Disney does. Look how I just defended Frontierland!!

We’re pretty much on the same page here, even though it may not sound like it.

When I say I’m glad they’re breaking away from the desert cowboy thing and embracing other parts of what was at one time a “frontier”, I mean that I am glad that they’re moving away from those stereotypical depictions of things that have gotten stale and not aged well and are instead wishing to embrace a lot of different scenic things that invite more fantastical things into the mix.

You’re very right that the land as is is a mismatch of time periods anyway, so why not just have the land be representative of all different times that America was growing and exploring and evolving? Why must it stay locked into the standard theme park cowboys and dirt and the desert thing?

It can and should be bigger than that and feature things that extend beyond that. There’s a lot more room for more creative interpretations of what a frontier can conceptually be than the literal western frontier Disney has locked themselves in for decades.

Some of that can and should stay. After all the wild west is part of it! But it shouldn’t be only that. It can and should rope in other places and times where other kinds of growth and development took place.

 

[donaldtoo]

Well, hell then, let’s not limit it to just the American Frontier…

 

[donaldtoo]

The other thought I had is, I wanna’ see a survey that simply asks Americans, from all demographics and age ranges, what their first thought is when they hear the words “American Frontier”.
No clue what the answers would be these days, but I’m sure it would be interesting.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I usually like "Brickey's" takes, but for a designer, it's quite remarkable that he would understate (only mentioning it in passing near the end) the aesthetic/emotional value of the river. The reason Disney has been so popular for so long is, in substantial part, the ambiance... how it feels. The river is central to the holistic experience of being transported to... well... a Magic Kingdom. I'm sure GSRs/attendance/spending will reflect an initial positive response to the new area, but in the longer term, it will reduce what makes Disney stand out - which is precisely the wrong direction to go in right now.

The only "feel" Burbank cares about is the feel when they look at the bonus checks they get to cash.

Frontierland - It's a salute to the American Frontier but now it's really just whatever IP we want to throw in there.

 

[Brer Panther]

Disney doesn't have any popular "western" IPs, so that limits their options on what to put in Frontierland.

They COULD just do something not based on an IP, but Iger would never allow that.