Can a post 2016 resale buyer get TIW

[LuvtheGoof]

The site was about how the changes with Riviera have damaged potential resales. Like I said I dont really care perks, I dont go often enough to even really make it an issue. The discussion had kinda morphed at least on my end to how Riviera restrictions are not really any kind of benefit to anyone but Disney.

Except the article was making the same assumptions that you are without any hard data to back it up. It's all supposition and possibilities that haven't happened yet. That's where I have the issue. No one, not even Disney has any idea what the resale market for Riviera is going to be, so to state now that is has already damaged resales is completely disingenuous.

In the last 8 months since Disney instituted this policy, have current resales taken a dump? Nope. Still quite strong, so he's already wrong on that part. My bet is that people will love the resort, and will be willing to buy resale, knowing that those points can only be used there.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Except the article was making the same assumptions that you are without any hard data to back it up. It's all supposition and possibilities that haven't happened yet. That's where I have the issue. No one, not even Disney has any idea what the resale market for Riviera is going to be, so to state now that is has already damaged resales is completely disingenuous.

In the last 8 months since Disney instituted this policy, have current resales taken a dump? Nope. Still quite strong, so he's already wrong on that part. My bet is that people will love the resort, and will be willing to buy resale, knowing that those points can only be used there.

Oh I think if anything, resales on the older properties are going to be more popular. I am just talking about anyone buying into Riviera, is all, and I think we can agree these restrictions are installed as a way to discourage reselling down the line.

 

[seascape]

Except the article was making the same assumptions that you are without any hard data to back it up. It's all supposition and possibilities that haven't happened yet. That's where I have the issue. No one, not even Disney has any idea what the resale market for Riviera is going to be, so to state now that is has already damaged resales is completely disingenuous.

In the last 8 months since Disney instituted this policy, have current resales taken a dump? Nope. Still quite strong, so he's already wrong on that part. My bet is that people will love the resort, and will be willing to buy resale, knowing that those points can only be used there.

I am not sure those who think the resale market will be fin for future resorts. Only those who plan well in advance will buy a future resort. Unless they change this restriction, a Riviera resale owner who doesn't book between 7 and 11 months will be out of luck and unable to use those points. I expect a lawsuit over that from resale owners. DVC may have to make other changes such as limiting outside owners from booking at the Riviera. If owners can't trade out others should not be sllowed to book in.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Oh I think if anything, resales on the older properties are going to be more popular. I am just talking about anyone buying into Riviera, is all, and I think we can agree these restrictions are installed as a way to discourage reselling down the line.

Please tell me why Disney would want to discourage someone from buying resale to become a new owner? If that were the case, why haven't they killed the current resale market? Why not exercise ROFR on every contract to turn around and sell as direct? Simple. Because they are smart enough to know that lots of people won't pay full price, and are willing to forgo the perks for paying less money to become owners. If there is no resale market, then they know that fewer people would buy in. While @xdan0920 may not be Disney's best customer anymore, people like us still are, and, I'm willing to bet, that the majority of DVC owners are some of their best customers.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I am not sure those who think the resale market will be fin for future resorts. Only those who plan well in advance will buy a future resort. Unless they change this restriction, a Riviera resale owner who doesn't book between 7 and 11 months will be out of luck and unable to use those points. I expect a lawsuit over that from resale owners. DVC may have to make other changes such as limiting outside owners from booking at the Riviera. If owners can't trade out others should not be sllowed to book in.

They've already started that with not allowing any new resale owners that purchase any of the original 14 properties from booking at Riviera. Kinda hard to file a lawsuit against something that is already in a contract that you sign. I've said it before. If a person spends tens of thousands of dollars to buy resale at Riviera, and doesn't do the research to see what they are buying, then too bad, so sad for them. Do you make any purchase of tens of thousands of dollars without doing extensive research beforehand? Heck, I research items that only cost $20-30 dollars to ensure I'm getting the best product I can for the price.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Please tell me why Disney would want to discourage someone from buying resale to become a new owner? If that were the case, why haven't they killed the current resale market? Why not exercise ROFR on every contract to turn around and sell as direct? Simple. Because they are smart enough to know that lots of people won't pay full price, and are willing to forgo the perks for paying less money to become owners. If there is no resale market, then they know that fewer people would buy in. While @xdan0920 may not be Disney's best customer anymore, people like us still are, and, I'm willing to bet, that the majority of DVC owners are some of their best customers.

Simple, ROFR would require more money on their part right up front and maintenance fees. They would never want to put themselves in the position of holding too many contacts and fees and then see some sort of market downturn. I have no idea what the waiting list is for certain properties, but I am sure they look at that as an indicator and that is why you see them doing some.

 

[xdan0920]

Question for @helenabear and @LuvtheGoof

What is the consumer benefit to restricting resale buyers?

 

[seascape]

They've already started that with not allowing any new resale owners that purchase any of the original 14 properties from booking at Riviera. Kinda hard to file a lawsuit against something that is already in a contract that you sign. I've said it before. If a person spends tens of thousands of dollars to buy resale at Riviera, and doesn't do the research to see what they are buying, then too bad, so sad for them. Do you make any purchase of tens of thousands of dollars without doing extensive research beforehand? Heck, I research items that only cost $20-30 dollars to ensure I'm getting the best product I can for the price.

There is a big difference between the old restrictions and the new ones. There is also a major difference in letter new resale owners only book into the original 14 and Riviera resale owners only being allowed to book at the Riviera. First, by allowing DVC members to book at 7 months it is very possible that Riviera resale customers may nevet get to use their points unless they book earlier. I think eventually the DVC will have to allow resale customers to book at other resorts but maybe with shorter booking window.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Question for @helenabear and @LuvtheGoof

What is the consumer benefit to restricting resale buyers?

The reason I was given when I talked to management is that they are receiving tons of complaints from people that used to have no problems with making reservations close to the 7 month mark, and now, people claim it is almost impossible at certain times of the year. By restricting resale buyers at Riviera (and one assumes, any future DVC resort), it won't exacerbate an already bad problem. So that, in essence, benefits me as a current direct owner, as they won't be adding potentially hundreds, or even thousands of future resale owners that are looking for the same place and date that I am looking to book, giving me a better chance to get what I want. Is that selfish of me? Probably. And that restriction applies to even current direct owners. If you buy resale at Riviera, I have been told that you will not be allowed to combine those points with your direct points to make a reservation at the current 14 properties. You will still only be able to use those points at Riviera. Now, you could combine your direct points with the Riviera resale to move up from say, a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom, or for a longer stay. You just can't combine them the other way.

I think by restricting new resale buyers of the 14 original properties from making a reservation at Riviera, they are giving the Riviera resale and direct buyers a leg up there as well. They seem to think, and I agree, that it is going to be a very popular resort, especially during the EPCOT festival dates, which are 2/3 of the year now.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I think eventually the DVC will have to allow resale customers to book at other resorts but maybe with shorter booking window.

I think that would be an excellent idea. Make either a 5 or 6 month window for them at the original 14, so at least they have some chance.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Simple, ROFR would require more money on their part right up front and maintenance fees. They would never want to put themselves in the position of holding too many contacts and fees and then see some sort of market downturn. I have no idea what the waiting list is for certain properties, but I am sure they look at that as an indicator and that is why you see them doing some.

Actually, Disney exercises ROFR for a few reasons. First is that they don't have enough inventory for a particular property, and have many requests for points, and second is when the seller is asking for too low of a price. This actually keeps the resale market going strong, and is really one of the benefits of DVC over other timeshares. They know that people have issues and sometimes have to sell. If Disney were like other timeshares that you see on eBay for 1 penny because nobody wants to buy it, that would really dilute the value of DVC. Not something they want to see happen.

I do completely agree that they have to do a balancing act, so as to not hold too many points at the older resorts. I think they've learned over the last 27 years about how many contracts at each resort may sell each month. I know for quite awhile there were so many people on the waiting list for VGF that they actually stopped the guides from adding to the waiting list. I think that restriction has eased now, but I do remember our guide telling us that.

 

[xdan0920]

The reason I was given when I talked to management is that they are receiving tons of complaints from people that used to have no problems with making reservations close to the 7 month mark, and now, people claim it is almost impossible at certain times of the year. By restricting resale buyers at Riviera (and one assumes, any future DVC resort), it won't exacerbate an already bad problem. So that, in essence, benefits me as a current direct owner, as they won't be adding potentially hundreds, or even thousands of future resale owners that are looking for the same place and date that I am looking to book, giving me a better chance to get what I want. Is that selfish of me? Probably. And that restriction applies to even current direct owners. If you buy resale at Riviera, I have been told that you will not be allowed to combine those points with your direct points to make a reservation at the current 14 properties. You will still only be able to use those points at Riviera. Now, you could combine your direct points with the Riviera resale to move up from say, a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom, or for a longer stay. You just can't combine them the other way.

I think by restricting new resale buyers of the 14 original properties from making a reservation at Riviera, they are giving the Riviera resale and direct buyers a leg up there as well. They seem to think, and I agree, that it is going to be a very popular resort, especially during the EPCOT festival dates, which are 2/3 of the year now.

Hand up. I asked the wrong question. I get the rationale behind restricting the booking.

I meant....

What’s the consumer benefit for limiting perks to direct buyers.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Hand up. I asked the wrong question. I get the rationale behind restricting the booking.

I meant....

What’s the consumer benefit for limiting perks to direct buyers.

Ahh, ok. So for that one - so we can say we're better than the plebs that bought resale? This is sarcasm of course, and I certainly don't mean it. Actually, the only "benefit" that I can see is that there are fewer people trying to get into Moonlight Magic and those sort of things that are restricted to direct buyers only. Same with things like the DVC Lounge in EPCOT, or the TOWL in Bay Lake. It "technically" benefits us, but to what extent is really unknown.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Ahh, ok. So for that one - so we can say we're better than the plebs that bought resale? This is sarcasm of course, and I certainly don't mean it. Actually, the only "benefit" that I can see is that there are fewer people trying to get into Moonlight Magic and those sort of things that are restricted to direct buyers only. Same with things like the DVC Lounge in EPCOT, or the TOWL in Bay Lake. It "technically" benefits us, but to what extent is really unknown.

Hey plebs are still allowed inTOWL...its on my card lol

 

[nickys]

I am not sure those who think the resale market will be fin for future resorts. Only those who plan well in advance will buy a future resort. Unless they change this restriction, a Riviera resale owner who doesn't book between 7 and 11 months will be out of luck and unable to use those points. I expect a lawsuit over that from resale owners. DVC may have to make other changes such as limiting outside owners from booking at the Riviera. If owners can't trade out others should not be sllowed to book in.

If someone buys in and then doesn’t book in their home booking window, then that’s tough luck IMO. There are a few things you should tick off on a list before deciding that DVC is right for you. One is that you can plan 7-11 months out. You do your homework, that old “caveat emptor” applies here.

The only thing that DVC promises is the ability to book at your own resort during the home resort booking advantage. That must be at least one month.

And the only people prevented from trading out are resale buyers, same for trading in. Now if they were to suddenly make these restrictions retrospective, I imagine that could be challenged.

 

[nickys]

Hand up. I asked the wrong question. I get the rationale behind restricting the booking.

I meant....

What’s the consumer benefit for limiting perks to direct buyers.

The consumer benefit? It rewards those who bought direct. It also limits the numbers competing to get into events like Moonlight Magic.

But limiting perks to resale buyers is mostly about driving direct sales surely?

 

[Club Cooloholic]

The consumer benefit? It rewards those who bought direct. It also limits the numbers competing to get into events like Moonlight Magic.

But limiting perks to resale buyers is mostly about driving direct sales surely?

If someone buys in and then doesn’t book in their home booking window, then that’s tough luck IMO. There are a few things you should tick off on a list before deciding that DVC is right for you. One is that you can plan 7-11 months out. You do your homework, that old “caveat emptor” applies here.

The only thing that DVC promises is the ability to book at your own resort during the home resort booking advantage. That must be at least one month.

And the only people prevented from trading out are resale buyers, same for trading in. Now if they were to suddenly make these restrictions retrospective, I imagine that could be challenged.

I agree with giving direct buyers those benefits. My main issue was the resale buyer limitation for new resorts. If you were a first time buyer, you, a consumer can't be happy with that limitation should you choose to sell it later.

 

[xdan0920]

The consumer benefit? It rewards those who bought direct. It also limits the numbers competing to get into events like Moonlight Magic.

But limiting perks to resale buyers is mostly about driving direct sales surely?

Are there some finite number of perks? Like DVC can only offer small discounts on Tables in Wonderland to x number of people or else the whole operation falls apart?

I just don’t like the segregation. It’s dopey and petty and quite frankly it’s a little bit of a dirty tactic by DVC to sell the insanely priced new points. The perks aren’t even close to worth the price difference between resale and direct, but they engage in a little bit of deceptive mind games.

Oh well, despite being an “owner” my opinion means less then nothing.

 

[nickys]

I agree with giving direct buyers those benefits. My main issue was the resale buyer limitation for new resorts. If you were a first time buyer, you, a consumer can't be happy with that limitation should you choose to sell it later.

If you did any kind of research before buying, like joining a forum or looking for articles on DVC, you couldn’t miss talk of the restrictions. But as a seller it doesn’t affect you other than the price you might get. It is only worth what someone will buy it for. I don’t think you can complain just because you can’t get as much for your points as someone who owns at BLT. DVC is not an investment. No one should be buying in expecting to make money or even recoup your money on selling.

 

[correcaminos]

I agree with giving direct buyers those benefits. My main issue was the resale buyer limitation for new resorts. If you were a first time buyer, you, a consumer can't be happy with that limitation should you choose to sell it later.

Gotta say if you re a first time buyer and doing resale, I think you will have to know more about DVC than a first time direct buyer. I know I researched the heck out of everything before I bought in. I knew what I needed to know. Granted you'll always find some not so researched people in resale, but not as often.