Buying used points from Disney

[bigrigross]

I took my wife on her first trip to Disney World and she loved it. We do not have kids yet but she and I want to go back every year, or at least every 2 years with long stays. We did the DVC presentation and they tried selling me Polynesian points at 197 dollars a point I believe. Well I scheduled a second DVC presentation so I could actually see the rooms as I have never stayed in the DVC rooms before. He then offers me Old Key West points at 145 dollars a point with 41 years of ownership saying Disney just bought them back.

I paid the deposit to hold my 70 points for Old key west because the price was easily within our vacation budget (in fact it saves us money). I just want to make sure I am not going to get screwed out of anything. I have read on many sites when Disney gets these points back, they sell them at the current rate for the full 50 years so I am confused as to why Disney would sell them to me at 41 years at the cheaper rate.

I am fine with the 41 years. That puts it at around when I reach 80 years old. Just curious to hear anyones thoughts on this. I sent an email to the DVC salesman asking about any tax liens or anything against these points. Only thing I can think of why they are reselling these points with less years and for less money.

 

[mousehockey37]

You know there is a resale market out there. You can buy into whatever resort you want. That's a big thing to think about. If you're ok with booking OKW at 11 months, then cool. If you want to book anywhere else, it's 7 months, so think long and hard about where you'd want to call "home".

A lot of people tend to go resale and buy an additional 25 points directly through Disney then and they have all the perks.

Also, buying resale is going to save you a lot more money than probably what they want for that OKW contract.

I'd also maybe back off the buying right now and rent a trip or two (do split stays, 2x the resort in the same vacation!) and get in there and see what the rentals really do look and feel like, so you know what you're actually buying into.

Just some things to think about.

 

[nickys]

Each resort sells for a different amount per point.

He tried selling you Poly because it's not sold as quickly as they thought. Interesting he didn't offer you Copper Creek though.

 

[bigrigross]

Each resort sells for a different amount per point.

He tried selling you Poly because it's not sold as quickly as they thought. Interesting he didn't offer you Copper Creek though.

He did but he stated the yearly dues are higher. Have you ever heard of Disney selling points at a reduced cost and less than 50 years on the contract? I am fine with the contract as 70 points is plenty for us and 41 years for the contract life is fine. Saving 45 dollars over poly is fine since the points work for any resort. I couldnt find anything online about disney selling older contracts with less years than just recycling them into a 50 year contract.

 

[mousehockey37]

He did but he stated the yearly dues are higher. Have you ever heard of Disney selling points at a reduced cost and less than 50 years on the contract? I am fine with the contract as 70 points is plenty for us and 41 years for the contract life is fine. Saving 45 dollars over poly is fine since the points work for any resort. I couldnt find anything online about disney selling older contracts with less years than just recycling them into a 50 year contract.

Have you thought of entertaining the idea of the resale market? There's more contracts out there than just the 2 on their table.

ETA: A few other things to think about. You said you don't have kids. Will you at some point? If yes, you may need a bigger contract. Certain resorts only sleep up to so many in a room and the studio, villa, grand villa occupancy rates are different across the properties. So keep that in mind. 70 points is good for now, but how long until they require you to put more points into a reservation? Will that 70 be sufficient?

 

[bigrigross]

Have you thought of entertaining the idea of the resale market? There's more contracts out there than just the 2 on their table.

I have looked at doing it, but most I have seen for the amount of points I want to buy, have all 3 years pretty much plundered thus I couldnt start using until 2018 and then I would only have that one year and would still be in the negative. We are looking at doing a family trip next year and nothing I have found would allow that to happen especially with renting 2 bedroom villa since those go for almost 800 a night. Thats pretty much half of my DVC contract. I get the full 16s, 17s and 18s points with this contract. The ones that the points are not plundered on are over my price range and I really do not feel like paying the yearly dues for 200 points regardless of how much a point I can get them at. Plus I dont want to borrow money to do this. Not even sure a bank would give a loan for it.

 

[mousehockey37]

I have looked at doing it, but most I have seen for the amount of points I want to buy, have all 3 years pretty much plundered thus I couldnt start using until 2018 and then I would only have that one year and would still be in the negative. We are looking at doing a family trip next year and nothing I have found would allow that to happen especially with renting 2 bedroom villa since those go for almost 800 a night. Thats pretty much half of my DVC contract. I get the full 16s, 17s and 18s points with this contract. The ones that the points are not plundered on are over my price range and I really do not feel like paying the yearly dues for 200 points regardless of how much a point I can get them at. Plus I dont want to borrow money to do this. Not even sure a bank would give a loan for it.

The advice that has always been said, is that if you have to take out a loan to do timeshares, then it's not for you. I know you don't want to rent, and yes, I've seen the plundered contracts (it's unfortunate, but it happens) as well, but doing a rental where you want to buy is a good thing to do (if you can). You don't just go to the lot, pick a car and drive off.. you test drive it first. Renting is your test drive. I always thought I'd love the Boardwalk. Well, we did a split stay this year, tried it for 2 nights, and it wasn't what I expected it to be, especially after staying at AKL Kidani (far superior, IMO).

There are numerous resale sites and with the way the contracts come and go, it could be as simple as waiting until someone posts one that would be perfect for you tomorrow and making an offer. So if it were me, I'd shop around a little bit.

 

[bigrigross]

Yeah, we have the money to purchase this contract in cash. I just paid the deposit to lock the contract in while I do more research since 145 is cheap compared to what else was offered by disney. I just have had 0 luck in finding sub 100 points with all the points there and usable. Our yearly maintenance fee for 2017 is 340 bucks. If I go above 70 points, that number starts rising very unnecessarily and I begin to lose my cost savings on DVC. At 70 points, it will cost me 340 dollars in maintenance fees and 70 bucks in property taxes. Sure I can buy a contract at 91 dollars a point for 200 points, but thats almost 1200 dollars in maintenance fees plus I would be wasting them as I cant take enough time off of work to use them. And I do not have the additional 8K to purchase that contract. As an example as I have seen so far.

I will definitely keep looking until my 30 days is up before I can pull out of the contract, but so far its not looking to good. I will not pay rack rate for a 2 bedroom villa for 6 nights. Thats half the cost of my DVC contract for one stay. If I can find a 50 to 70 point resale contract with the points still there, I will definitely go resale. But I have mostly been seeing 175 and up contracts so far with the points available for use. Anything less than that are pretty much 0|0|7 or simliar.

Edit: I really do appreciate you letting me know about resale. If I wasnt in a time crunch, I would be able to buy one of those contracts immediately. I want to keep my points low as to maximize my yearly savings. Once I break even, paying for a single night in wilderness lodge (yearly maintenance fee) will nearly take care of 7 nights at Animal Kingdom lodge. My large 8 person family trip next year will take care of half of my contract so as you see, I dont have the time to wait for the perfect DVC resale contract. We shall see though.

 

[DVC Mike]

Each resort has a different contract end date and only Poly has 50 years left: https://dvcinfo.com/resort-information/resorts-ranked-size-date/

Here are the cost per point for all the resorts: https://dvcinfo.com/financial/dvc-point-cost-2/

Here are the annual dues: https://dvcinfo.com/financial/dvc-annual-dues/

 

[dreamfinder]

As pointed out, each DVC resort has their own expiration date. Think of it like buying a used car that still has the balance of it's original 100,000 mile warranty. If you buy a car that is only 1 year old, it may still have 80,000 miles left, while a 5 year old car may only have 20,000 miles left. And to carry on with the car analogy, if you buy a 4 dr model, it may only cost you $20,000, while the 5 dr model may cost you $40,000. So in each case, you are getting what you pay for. The 4 dr model (OKW) may be fine for you, while your neighbor may need a feature sold in the 5 dr model (Poly) and chooses to buy that.

Definitely read the documents that @DVC Mike linked to, and know all the details about how it works. Something to keep in mind, if you buy OKW points, you only get 11 month booking advantage at that resort. So if you are running your numbers thinking you can stay at AKL for those points, you may need to revist them. You can't book there until 7 months, so may have limited availability at that point, and may have to use the point costs for another resort. If staying at AKL is necessary to make your numbers work (especially if you are looking for a value unit) you would want to own at AKV, and not OKW to increase your availability options.

 

[Phonedave]

I am fine with the 41 years. That puts it at around when I reach 80 years old. Just curious to hear anyones thoughts on this. I sent an email to the DVC salesman asking about any tax liens or anything against these points. Only thing I can think of why they are reselling these points with less years and for less money.

As others have said, the year never changes. All points for a given resort were "created" at the same time and all expire at the same time, nothing resets that date (expcet for OKW, OKW has two different expiration dates, because DVC offered for a limited time, the ability to extend the expiration on the points, but it was at a cost, and was a contractural change). When DVC buys points back for relase, the expiration date does not change.

As for less money, there are OKW contracts out there that are selling for between $75 - $80 a point right now. DVC most likely exercised a ROFR on a large $75 per point contract, and when all was said and done, ended up paying under $80 a point for it (after closing costs, title, etc). Now they want to sell it to you for $145 - around a 40% profit. Not what I would call cheap.

It's like flipping a house when you add a fresh coat of paint and sell it for $50,000 more than you bought it for. DVC buys a contract, adds a coat of paint in the form of "perks" and then flips if for a tidy profit. Not knocking them for doing so, its a genious business model. But it is hardly being sold "cheap"

-dave

 

[bigrigross]

As others have said, the year never changes. All points for a given resort were "created" at the same time and all expire at the same time, nothing resets that date (expcet for OKW, OKW has two different expiration dates, because DVC offered for a limited time, the ability to extend the expiration on the points, but it was at a cost, and was a contractural change). When DVC buys points back for relase, the expiration date does not change.

As for less money, there are OKW contracts out there that are selling for between $75 - $80 a point right now. DVC most likely exercised a ROFR on a large $75 per point contract, and when all was said and done, ended up paying under $80 a point for it (after closing costs, title, etc). Now they want to sell it to you for $145 - around a 40% profit. Not what I would call cheap.

It's like flipping a house when you add a fresh coat of paint and sell it for $50,000 more than you bought it for. DVC buys a contract, adds a coat of paint in the form of "perks" and then flips if for a tidy profit. Not knocking them for doing so, its a genious business model. But it is hardly being sold "cheap"

-dave

Appreciate the info. I just wanted to make sure as I didnt want to purchase anything with a tax lien. I wouldnt think disney would do it, but in this day and age, never hurts to check as I dont want a surprise 1000 dollar tax bill due.

My problem is finding those said contracts with any points available left in them. I am ok with spending 145 since I will get 16, 17, and 18s points that I can use for my trip. The family is going next year in september and spending 145 a point for points I can use immediately with all 3 years is pretty much non existent anywhere I have looked for contracts under 100 points. As I stated, our room will cost almost 6K since I am looking at 2 bedroom villas for a 6 night stay. That leaves me 4K for the next 40 years to break even which is just an extended stay at the poly or even key west in a nicer room.

Its possible I am looking at the wrong sites for DVC resales, I just looked on the first 5 top google search results.

 

[bigrigross]

As pointed out, each DVC resort has their own expiration date. Think of it like buying a used car that still has the balance of it's original 100,000 mile warranty. If you buy a car that is only 1 year old, it may still have 80,000 miles left, while a 5 year old car may only have 20,000 miles left. And to carry on with the car analogy, if you buy a 4 dr model, it may only cost you $20,000, while the 5 dr model may cost you $40,000. So in each case, you are getting what you pay for. The 4 dr model (OKW) may be fine for you, while your neighbor may need a feature sold in the 5 dr model (Poly) and chooses to buy that.

Definitely read the documents that @DVC Mike linked to, and know all the details about how it works. Something to keep in mind, if you buy OKW points, you only get 11 month booking advantage at that resort. So if you are running your numbers thinking you can stay at AKL for those points, you may need to revist them. You can't book there until 7 months, so may have limited availability at that point, and may have to use the point costs for another resort. If staying at AKL is necessary to make your numbers work (especially if you are looking for a value unit) you would want to own at AKV, and not OKW to increase your availability options.

So I get 7 months to book at my non home resort and I get 11 at my home resort? Also, OKW is pretty cheap on the point cost so even if I dont get AKL, its not that big of deal. Also I go during off season so getting a room shouldnt be an issue. In fact, I can still find some room open for the summer for 2 bedroom villas so I think I will be fine there. I understand that different resorts have a different point value. Or is their an additional cost to stay at another resort? I thought points were points. I can pay 30 here or 60 at the contempory?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So I get 7 months to book at my non home resort and I get 11 at my home resort? Also, OKW is pretty cheap on the point cost so even if I dont get AKL, its not that big of deal. Also I go during off season so getting a room shouldnt be an issue. In fact, I can still find some room open for the summer for 2 bedroom villas so I think I will be fine there. I understand that different resorts have a different point value. Or is their an additional cost to stay at another resort? I thought points were points. I can pay 30 here or 60 at the contempory?

Jumping in here. There is no additional cost - except for the higher points - to stay at any other DVC resort. There is only a fee if you use your points for a trip other than a DVC resort - cruise, Disney Collection, etc. We own at SSR, and have stayed at almost every WDW DVC resort. We always book at our home resort for the dates we want, just to ensure that we have a room, and then see at 7 months (call exactly on that day) what we can switch to - using the Availability Tool to see what is there. Some will be harder than others. It seems that the 1 bedrooms go last at most resorts as we have been able to secure a 1 bedroom at BWV and BCV during Food & Wine in 2 different years (BCV this year). Studios usually go first, and then 2 bedrooms at the smaller locations.

So as long as you don't mind staying at OKW if nothing else is available, then go for it!

 

[dreamfinder]

So I get 7 months to book at my non home resort and I get 11 at my home resort? Also, OKW is pretty cheap on the point cost so even if I dont get AKL, its not that big of deal. Also I go during off season so getting a room shouldnt be an issue. In fact, I can still find some room open for the summer for 2 bedroom villas so I think I will be fine there. I understand that different resorts have a different point value. Or is their an additional cost to stay at another resort? I thought points were points. I can pay 30 here or 60 at the contempory?

Yes, you get 11 months at your home resort, and 7 months at the others. Many people will book their home resort at 11 so they have something on the books, and then try to swap/waitlist at 7 months at another resort.

Read over the point charts you can find here -> https://dvcinfo.com/using-your-membership/dvc-points/dvc-point-charts/ or at many other DVC sites. That will tell you exactly how many points you would need. For instance, a week in standard view studio at AKV during Adventure season costs 81 points, but a standard view studio at BLT would cost you 102 points. Since OKW doesn't have different classes, it's not a pure apples to apples, but a week in a studio during the same time there would only be 76 points.

Something to keep in mind is that even though it may be a slower time of the year for the parks, DVC may actually be more in demand. For instance, there are lot of DVC owners who go during the first two weeks (or so, shifts yearly) of December. That is because that is classified as Adventure season, so is cheap, but still gets you the holiday experience. Many DVC owners want to maximize their point value, so book then, meaning that DVC actually may book up pretty fast while the normal rooms are still quite empty.

Also, the availability for cash booking for villas through CRO isn't the same as what members have available to book. DVD has points it needs to hold for breakage up until a certain point, but also has access to the points it gets from members who trade out for cruises and such. I've never fully understand how they get spread throughout the year, but seeing a 2BR villa with cash availability doesn't mean there is point availability. For instance, I'm showing cash availability at several resorts for the first weekend on November, but wasn't showing anything for points the other day.

 

[Phonedave]

Appreciate the info. I just wanted to make sure as I didnt want to purchase anything with a tax lien. I wouldnt think disney would do it, but in this day and age, never hurts to check as I dont want a surprise 1000 dollar tax bill due.

My problem is finding those said contracts with any points available left in them. I am ok with spending 145 since I will get 16, 17, and 18s points that I can use for my trip. The family is going next year in september and spending 145 a point for points I can use immediately with all 3 years is pretty much non existent anywhere I have looked for contracts under 100 points. As I stated, our room will cost almost 6K since I am looking at 2 bedroom villas for a 6 night stay. That leaves me 4K for the next 40 years to break even which is just an extended stay at the poly or even key west in a nicer room.

Its possible I am looking at the wrong sites for DVC resales, I just looked on the first 5 top google search results.

Some contracts are harder to find than others, there are the proverbial :unicorn" contracts - small contracts that match your current use year and resort - they are hard to find and go at a premium. Trust me, I have been unicorn hunting for a while now, and just snagged a 50 point at SSR that matches my use year (waiting on ROFR now), 6 people put in bids for it, and it was only open for bids for about 4 hours, so I know how fast they go. Many contracts on the resale market are also "stripped" where they have no current or next year points. Very often you can negotiate a lower price or have the seller pay the next years dues (or give you a credit for them). However, if you want a loaded contract, and are aware of the price differences, and don't mind paying direct prices, then thats fine too.

As for tax leins and other such encumbrances, that is what title insurance is for. It's a real estate purchase, and you are going to have to pay for a title search, so it should come up clean.

-dave

 

[correcaminos]

Each resort sells for a different amount per point.

He tried selling you Poly because it's not sold as quickly as they thought. Interesting he didn't offer you Copper Creek though.

He tried selling Polynesian also because it is one of the newest. From the numbers I have read PVB is selling just fine. CCV I worry about with such a high MF.

Right now OKW's MF are higher than PVB and one I'm slightly annoyed with (the jumps over the last few years have been high). I actually love owning at OKW because I like being near the hospitality house and that isn't always available with a 2 bedroom at 7 months. I've been able to stay a lot of other places on those points. Keep in mind OKW may have a 2042 or a 2057 expiration date. It's harder to find the extended contracts because many owners (us included) did not opt to extend.

AKL, SSR and OKW are the easiest to get into with a shorter time period.

Just check out all of the different resales and get on their list. Remember with a resale you do not get the membership benefits other than Top of the World Lounge, video rentals, and pool hopping. For most this is not a big reason to avoid resale though.