British Dad Fined For Taking Daughter To WDW

[21stamps]

You are right it isn't true as a blanket statement... Certainly no more true than the poster I was responding to that said it would ALWAYS be detrimental to take a child out of school.

I'm sure some people live in areas where kindergarten is more than state funded babysitting... but unfortunately I don't live in such an area nor was I raised in one because the pointless example of kindergarten that I gave fit perfectly with the experiences I've had with it.

And sadly in my area Kindergarten has only changed for the worse... Now our schools are providing kids with tablets in kindergarten for what purpose I have no idea... Only that it seems to make the life of the teachers easier as they now have the electronic babysitters to keep kids quiet ignoring completely medical studies that recommend limitation of computer and table usage at such a young age, certainly not providing 6 hours a day of it...

I would be fighting that tooth and nail if I lived in such a place. Computers are ok.. for 20 minutes.. computer/iPad class starts at a young age...but it should not be for the whole day.

If we think about it, in the earliest days of the Unites States, BEFORE public schools...ALL education under the college/university level was HOMESCHOOL !! You sat under mom's feet while she was baking, and you drew your letters and numbers in the spilled flour. Math was practical !! "How many pints to a gallon?? I have to shoe all the horses...how many threepenny nails do I need??"
You read grocery labels, and newspapers. Even picture books were a luxury. And if you did well you got a cookie, and if you cut up capers, you got a glare, or a swat - or sent out to muck the stable. We expected kids to move about, we didn't expect them to be little drones lashed to a chair for 6 hours a day !!! I have seen grown adults get cranky at a church minister if he preaches longer than 30 minutes - but we expect kids to sit all day long !!
I am amazed at how many kids I hear of that are on mind altering DRUGS, because they don't adapt well to the educational standard. Well if that many can't adapt - maybe it is the standard that needs to change!!
And too much time is spent on those kids that don't want to learn, that are just there because they have to be, or for the social aspect, or the free food. If they don't sit down and shut up - boot them out. We have other kids to teach!!
I remember in the late 70's, I worked after school, and I would use the class time that teachers spent yelling at other kids to do my all homework. I rarely had to take anything but special projects or test prep home.
And forgive me, but TOO Much MONEY is spent on students who will never be productive members of society. I am not saying don't educate the special needs kids to the best of their ability, but I know of a $50,000 per year special needs Aide whose entire JOB for the school year was to train ONE severely mentally handicapped 17 year old to look at a clock when someone rang a bell...REALLY !!! THE ENTIRE YEAR !!! $50,000...nice work if you can get it !!

ending my rant... IMHO...Our entire educational system needs a HUGE re-vamp.

It does need a serious revamp. The poster above you stated something that shouldn't happen. There should not be so much discrepancy for the same age based on nothing more than where you live. That's horrible.

The time that you are talking about though.. that's when women stayed home all day, not because they chose to, but because they didn't have any other options.
I will not trade current times and how far women have come, to go back to those days.

SAHM or Career Mom- either one is great.. but the difference now is that Women are able to CHOOSE which one they want to be. No one is forcing us.

 

[21stamps]

Agree. My daughter started learning Spanish in 4-K. She was also taught addition/subtraction that year, and was able to read sentences smoothly at 4. In her current kindergarten curriculum she is learning the names and order of US Presidents, how to write stories, and so many other things. She is currently ahead of other students in her class because of her early education and has pretty much taken kindergarten 2 times since her final year of pre-K was on a kindergarten curriculum. Its amazing how much little minds absorb. I went to a "private kindergarten" at the daycare I was attending and probably learned 1/4 of what she is learning.

Same here!! I went to Montessori pre school.. and then private schools K-12.. I wasn't doing half of what my child is doing now!

 

[thomas998]

I would be fighting that tooth and nail if I lived in such a place. Computers are ok.. for 20 minutes.. computer/iPad class starts at a young age...but it should not be for the whole day.



It does need a serious revamp. The poster above you stated something that shouldn't happen. There should not be so much discrepancy for the same age based on nothing more than where you live. That's horrible.

The time that you are talking about though.. that's when women stayed home all day, not because they chose to, but because they didn't have any other options.
I will not trade current times and how far women have come, to go back to those days.

SAHM or Career Mom- either one is great.. but the difference now is that Women are able to CHOOSE which one they want to be. No one is forcing us.

Fighting the system in most states is a lost cause. I tried to push for change for a while. Even went so far as to make a run for the school board... Only to realize that when you live in a town with only 25,000 people and the number that vote in any school election is only 600.... Well you quickly realize that the only people voting are the ones involved in the system and like it the way it is.

My solution was private school. It costs more and chaps my hide to known I'm still paying taxes to support a school system that I will never use. But that's the way it is when you live in a country where education is measured by the number of athletic trophies and not the number of National Merit Scholars.

 

[DfromATX]

The time that you are talking about though.. that's when women stayed home all day, not because they chose to, but because they didn't have any other options.
I will not trade current times and how far women have come, to go back to those days.

SAHM or Career Mom- either one is great.. but the difference now is that Women are able to CHOOSE which one they want to be. No one is forcing us.

I agree with you on this one. There's a whole lot more to learn these days compared to then. Women are no longer at home just sewing and baking biscuits, nor are men only farming and working at the saw mill. Even my own grandmother only went through the 8th grade. When I was in kindergarten, we only went half a day and I think we may have even taken naps! I can also remember playing house. Those days are LONG gone.

 

[21stamps]

Fighting the system in most states is a lost cause. I tried to push for change for a while. Even went so far as to make a run for the school board... Only to realize that when you live in a town with only 25,000 people and the number that vote in any school election is only 600.... Well you quickly realize that the only people voting are the ones involved in the system and like it the way it is.

My solution was private school. It costs more and chaps my hide to known I'm still paying taxes to support a school system that I will never use. But that's the way it is when you live in a country where education is measured by the number of athletic trophies and not the number of National Merit Scholars.

Oh that's so frustrating!! I'm glad you had an alternative!

I agree with you on this one. There's a whole lot more to learn these days compared to then. Women are no longer at home just sewing and baking biscuits, nor are men only farming and working at the saw mill. Even my own grandmother only went through the 8th grade. When I was in kindergarten, we only went half a day and I think we may have even taken naps! I can also remember playing house. Those days are LONG gone.

Yep.

 

[DfromATX]

Agree. My daughter started learning Spanish in 4-K. She was also taught addition/subtraction that year, and was able to read sentences smoothly at 4. In her current kindergarten curriculum she is learning the names and order of US Presidents, how to write stories, and so many other things. She is currently ahead of other students in her class because of her early education and has pretty much taken kindergarten 2 times since her final year of pre-K was on a kindergarten curriculum. Its amazing how much little minds absorb. I went to a "private kindergarten" at the daycare I was attending and probably learned 1/4 of what she is learning.

My husband is Iranian so he speaks Farsi. When our son was born, we were lucky enough to have my mother-in-law, who speaks very little English, keep him during the day. Well you can imagine, our little boy could rattle off in Farsi and English, sometimes mixing it. But, unfortunately, at about 3 we had to put him in daycare because he was too much for her at that point, and he lost all of the Farsi! I still blame my husband for not keeping up with it for him... Same with my step daughters, they lost all the Farsi once they went to school. My point is, their minds are like sponges and a second language is so easy for them to learn. I wish they taught foreign language in elementary instead of waiting until high school. All other countries teach English. We should at least be teaching Spanish (or other common languages) at an early age, but it seems like so many Americans are against that. It's only hurting us.

 

[21stamps]

My husband is Iranian so he speaks Farsi. When our son was born, we were lucky enough to have my mother-in-law, who speaks very little English, keep him during the day. Well you can imagine, our little boy could rattle off in Farsi and English, sometimes mixing it. But, unfortunately, at about 3 we had to put him in daycare because he was too much for her at that point, and he lost all of the Farsi! I still blame my husband for not keeping up with it for him... Same with my step daughters, they lost all the Farsi once they went to school. My point is, their minds are like sponges and a second language is so easy for them to learn. I wish they taught foreign language in elementary instead of waiting until high school. All other countries teach English. We should at least be teaching Spanish (or other common languages) at an early age, but it seems like so many Americans are against that. It's only hurting us.

I might be wrong on the age.. but I think it was proven that a child can learn up to 5 languages by age 7.

A lot of pre schools and elementary schools have foreign language now, but it should be the norm. The parents need to learn as well though.. multi languages in the home are always the best.. if you don't have that, there's always Rosetta Stone lol

 

[DfromATX]

I might be wrong on the age.. but I think it was proven that a child can learn up to 5 languages by age 7.

A lot of pre schools and elementary schools have foreign language now, but it should be the norm.

I believe it. Learning starts when they're infants. I think in my area they are starting in elementary now, but my youngest is 14, so we're out of that loop now.

 

[21stamps]

I believe it. Learning starts when they're infants. I think in my area they are starting in elementary now, but my youngest is 14, so we're out of that loop now.

Spanish is important to me, but I wish my kid was around it all day more. I took French for 5 years.. can't speak it at all now lol.. but I can speak Spanish and semi decent Hebrew..because I was around it so much once I was an adult.. the longer you learn something the more second nature it becomes. My husband spoke 4 languages fluently, and 1 decently, it always amazed me. We just don't have that same kind of importance on becoming multilingual in America. I wish we did.

Re: Infants, I did sign language with my son starting at 2 months old. I felt like an idiot.lol. It was highly recommended from a few of my friends, so I kept it up. One day, just before he was 4 months old, I caught him signing "milk". I literally jumped up and down and cheered. I was AMAZED!! Their brains are amazing..the next 2 months he started doing more and more signs...when he went into early learning at age 1, I specifically chose a school who also used signing, and Spanish. They were learning English, Sign Language, and Spanish.. age 1. I don't have a better word than- amazing.

He doesn't sign now.. but it just goes to show how much they can absorb, and how they can communicate, even as infants.
We, our society, needs to figure out how to capture that.,and stick with it.

 

[DfromATX]

Spanish is important to me, but I wish my kid was around it all day more. I took French for 5 years.. can't speak it at all now lol.. but I can speak Spanish and semi decent Hebrew..because I was around it so much once I was an adult.. the longer you learn something the more second nature it becomes. My husband spoke 4 languages fluently, and 1 decently, it always amazed me. We just don't have that same kind of importance on becoming multilingual in America. I wish we did.

Re: Infants, I did sign language with my son starting at 2 months old. I felt like an idiot.lol. It was highly recommended from a few of my friends, so I kept it up. One day, just before he was 4 months old, I caught him signing "milk". I literally jumped up and down and cheered. I was AMAZED!! Their brains are amazing..the next 2 months he started doing more and more signs...when he went into early learning at age 1, I specifically chose chose a school who also used signing, and Spanish. They were learning English, Sign Language, and Spanish.. age 1. I don't have a better word than- amazing.

He doesn't sign now.. but it just goes to show how much they can absorb, and how they can communicate, even as infants.
We, our society, needs to figure out how to capture that.,and stick with it.

That is a cute story about your son and it is amazing what they are able to absorb. My older son took German in high school, which I knew would be a waste. Of course now he doesn't remember any of it. We are in Texas, so Spanish is more practical for us. My youngest (the former Farsi speaker) will be taking Spanish next year in HS. I took Spanish and I still remember the basics, even how to conjugate the verbs, but I couldn't hold a conversation with a native speaker.

 

[21stamps]

That is a cute story about your son and it is amazing what they are able to absorb. My older son took German in high school, which I knew would be a waste. Of course now he doesn't remember any of it. We are in Texas, so Spanish is more practical for us. My youngest (the former Farsi speaker) will be taking Spanish next year in HS. I took Spanish and I still remember the basics, even how to conjugate the verbs, but I couldn't hold a conversation with a native speaker.

I recommend it to every first time parent now!! I'm a believer. It cut so much guesswork and crying out of the infant days!

That's how I am with French.. I can not hold a conversation.. but I can remember basics, and I can read it. Slowly.lol

I can't blame your oldest for choosing German, I think we choose the language that interests us, instead of the most practical. Then we regret it in adulthood

 

[flynnibus]

I believe that pulling a child out of school for ANY reason has a very real chance of impacting their performance. To correct that performance requires additional effort (in other words either expenditure of money, or time taken out of an already busy teachers schedule to help the child, thus allowing less time for other kids)

Then maybe we should be using the exercise to teach our children 'if you want more, you work more'. If you get your time away, you must commit to putting in the effort to balance that out... instead of preaching universal draconian measures that ignore the child, the situation, and fail to distinquish any real difference between things that hurt or help a student.

some of these activities fall under the umbrella of education. Activities such as attending band activities, Olympics, debate competitions, and field trips (where a teacher has created an actual lesson plan around the field trip) can all contribute to a students education and growth. If it is an educational activity, that has been agreed to by the BoE, PTC, and by extenstion taxpayers of the district, then that is fine.I have no problem with allocating the extra resources to help bring the performance of a student participating in such activities back up to par

But that's just it.. your definition of 'educational activity' floats based on social biases and not really on a definable boundary. For every school activity we bless based on 'expanding the child's understanding of the world' or 'social awareness' or 'social development' you could probably make cases for activities that are not school events. You can justify a school trip to NYC, including a show.. but you can't justify visiting a foreign capital that includes history, social exploration, etc.

My family's super competitive athletics really had nothing to do with education, but it made them better people and really made them appreciate how to apply themselves to meet all their obligations.

Then you have the activities that are neither educational or unfortunate - A WDW vacation falls into this category. A WDW vacation is not a necessity - at any time, but especially during the school year

I think a lot of western cultures would disagree with you there about the importance of family time and vacation. I agree we should prioritize education, I don't agree tho that the only way to do so is think kids not in school can't learn.

I mean.. really.. this is K-12 stuff, not rocket science. Kids miss class all the time due to unforseen circumstance and rarely do we see the school system brought to it's knees because of a lice outbreak

I had virtually perfect attendance K-11... Unless you were bleeding to death.. you went to school. I wouldn't say it kept me ahead or anything, or that my children that stay home now for far less illnesses are any further behind. In fact, with virtually all school content being put online now, its even EASIER for kids to not be present than it was in the past. And my kids all have far better grades than I ever had.

 

[Laketravis]

TI mean.. really.. this is K-12 stuff, not rocket science. Kids miss class all the time due to unforseen circumstance and rarely do we see the school system brought to it's knees because of a lice outbreak

I had to take DS with me last Friday to attend a funeral. He hasn't missed a day of school all year. I emailed the school attendance secretary the day before advising them that he would be absent.

On Friday, I got the following email:

"Friday, April 07, 2017

Dear XXXXXXXXXX

The purpose of this attendance report is to inform you about XXXXX's daily attendance. It appears that XXXXX had an unexcused absence in 5 classes on Friday, April 07, 2017. We would like to help you and your student in any way we can to alleviate this attendance concern. Any time a student has unexcused absences it is a concern to us, since unexcused absences cause a student to miss significant instruction and learning opportunities at school. When your student has an unexcused absence we encourage you to call the attendance secretary of XXXXXX MIDDLE SCHOOL at XXX-XXX-XXXX to excuse the unexcused absence. We are eager to help your student in any way we can."

I called on Monday to speak with the attendance secretary. I pointed out to her that I had sent her an email the day before explaining that he had to attend a funeral. About 3 minutes into her robotic lecture as to how important it was that a student not miss school because they could fall behind, I have to admit I lost it. I told her let's be honest, your concern has nothing to do with what learning opportunities he may have missed and everything to do with the amount of state funding you lose because you couldn't count his butt in a chair that day. And frankly he made up more over the weekend using the online curriculum than he ever could have possibly missed on a Friday in a classroom full of rowdy kids that the teachers are afraid to tell to sit down and shut up.

She almost whispered that she'd send this absence to the principal to be approved as excused.

I totally feel for this British dad.

 

[matt9112]

As an educator, I'm just a tad bit divided on this issue, but I largely agree with the father.
If the child is a strong enough student that being gone for seven days won't interfere too much with her education (aka, she has good grades before the trip and is able to complete any missing assignments upon return), then there should be no problem in his taking her on vacation.

In general the strict system of western education that stomps on real world creativity in exchange for math and more math (that kids will never use) coupled with standard testing is an issue. A child going to Disney world will likely learn alot of real world education they will use....not something they may use if they become a nuclear physicist.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I see that most have figured out what the "british dad" was being fined for. It was for taking his daughter out of school not because he took her to WDW. It is pretty common here that some sort of problem will exist if you take you kids out for any sustained length of time, but, sadly it mostly ends up hurting the child. They are the ones that get punished for something that they had no control over. The fine idea sounds like it hits exactly where the blame should rest.

 

[Rutt]

In most cases parents take their children out of school as it's cheaper to fly when schools are open (travel companies put prices up around school holidays in the UK). 90% or more of parents do it for this reason alone in my estimation. There'll always be exceptions when one parent can't get leave at the same time as the kids, or perhaps they get a chance of a friends villa etc but on the whole it's to save money.

I'm not so sure that is the exception anymore. Most parents I know (yes I know, not necessarily representative of the whole world) have to plan around work, and go when work will allow it. From my experience in travel planning as well (I am a travel agent on the side) this also seems to be the most common reason for the 'when' of a vacation. The 'holidays' of old simply don't exist in the workforce anymore. In my 'bill paying' workplace, they actually enforce restrictions where the summer and winter holidays are actually available by exception only because the amount of people who wanted them off was simply too much and not worth the battles.

This guy has learnt the hard way that you have to obey the rules of the school that you choose to send your child to, not sure myself whether that's right or wrong but he chose to challenge what he knew wasn't allowed. He's now talking about educating his kids at home where as long as they get enough quality education, he can choose when they holiday. Might be best for him under the circumstances.

This is simply it, this is the rules that board enforces. If you can't live with them, there ARE alternatives available. However, much like the school board here found out, if you think losing funding because a child is out one week is bad, imagine the amount you'll lose when they're gone for good.
Our school board is extremely fair when it comes to vacations and as long as the child is in good standing (not many sick days already) they will approve most vacations. They do limit them to one week however.

 

[larryz]

...When your student has an unexcused absence we encourage you to call the attendance secretary of XXXXXX MIDDLE SCHOOL at XXX-XXX-XXXX to excuse the unexcused absence. We are eager to help your student in any way we can."

I called on Monday to speak with the attendance secretary...

Really?

I would call your ISD's administrator and tell them you don't want to pay for an "attendance secretary," and ask why they can't have the first period teachers upchannel the data to the regular secretary like they used to do it.

 

[21stamps]

Really?

I would call your ISD's administrator and tell them you don't want to pay for an "attendance secretary," and ask why they can't have the first period teachers upchannel the data to the regular secretary like they used to do it.

Is this a normal position or exclusive to Texas?

We need federal aid for public schools/enhanced lunch programs..vouchers proposed for "school choice", income and property taxes going to public schools.. but yet they have a position such as an "Attendance Secretary"?

What a waste of tax payer money.

This is why I truly believe that the public education system is incapable of budgeting properly. Stop with the standardized tests and ridiculous attendance rules.. start cutting from the Top and go Down from there.

This kind of stuff makes me so angry. Livid actually. Wth is an Attendance Secretary?!?!

 

[Laketravis]

Really?

I would call your ISD's administrator and tell them you don't want to pay for an "attendance secretary," and ask why they can't have the first period teachers upchannel the data to the regular secretary like they used to do it.

You only have to follow the money to determine how they can justify having a full time position for nothing but attendance for 500 students.

A large portion of each ISD's budget comes from the state. The state pays based on a daily census. Because revenue is tied directly to attendance, the district establishes an attendance goal for budgetary purposes (the goal is currently 98% with an actual of 95.5%). The rationale then follows that the funding they stand to lose is enormous compared to the small salary of an attendance cop who focuses on nothing but attendance all day. (And given the way bureaucracies work, I'm surprised they haven't added a second position to help out since they aren't currently meeting their goal and we all know that first one is doing his/her job, right?)

I understand why they must focus on attendance. I simply have a problem with their methodology. Rather than treat every student as a potential chronic truant, focus on the smaller number of ones who are.

When I went to grade school on the east coast many years ago, each classroom teacher reported attendance and the process was much like you described. Enforcement, however, was left to truancy officers who actually drove around during the day. Sometimes they made house calls to check on the "welfare" of a student, other times they ran across a kid or two at the candy store skipping school.

Times have changed, and they haven't.

 

[JillC LI]

I missed 3-5 school days every year for a family winter or spring vacay, and I graduated high school in 1995. A lot of kids in my school did the same.

Me too, and I was the valedictorian of my class of 1986. Over the years I've had no problem pulling my own kids out of school for a few days for a family vacation as long as they keep up with the work. When they were younger I told the school we were going to Disney, but in high school I have to say they are out sick because the varsity coaches won't let the kids play if they miss practice and are not sick - they are worse than the teachers when it comes to attendance!