Breaking Points

[BrianLo]

I had the exact same experience. I found myself getting incredibly angry and had to take a step back and realize how ridiculous I was acting. I was ****ed about things like a petting zoo in a theme park going away… Wut?

Something like that is not worth me getting that upset over it.

I don’t want to pretend like I have a healthy relationship with Disney (I’m on a parks message board). But I have other interests and never have fallen into the local visitation addiction trap. I’ve always had more interest in seeing new things, so maybe I’m also part of the problem…

That said I don’t really think I’ll have a breaking point. If one park hasn’t done much that entices me for a few years, I simply am not actively visiting it. Sometimes I’m annoyed with a park because I’d love to go back, but they dragged their feet for a decade on adding something I’d make a trip for (Tokyo). Sometimes I’m sort of disinterested in what the entire company is doing for a period of time (sort of fell off Universal after 2014).

I actually don’t think it’s possible to maintain a local’s frequent visitation patterns and actually stay happy with the product. A healthy distance allows one to enjoy the flows and not visit during the ebs periods. There’s a nature bias towards recent history from any given generation.

I guess, despite being here, I’m not sure if I’m addicted. I just naturally float away to another park or another aspect of whatever I’m into, without having a fall out or making a conscientious effort to quit. More just like naturally losing interest.

 

[CaptinEO]

Interesting debate, while I hate most of these changes too I have this voice in my head that keeps telling me it’s not Disney that’s changing as much as society and Disney is just trying to appeal to the newer crowd . Every generation mourns the loss of their childhood places and shows contempt for the new generation, is that what we are seeing here ?

I mean did society dictate Pixar Pier? Jack Jack on a Stick?

 

[josh2000]

Interesting debate, while I hate most of these changes too I have this voice in my head that keeps telling me it’s not Disney that’s changing as much as society and Disney is just trying to appeal to the newer crowd . Every generation mourns the loss of their childhood places and shows contempt for the new generation, is that what we are seeing here ?

I think you've hit the nail on the head 100%. I am 21 years old, so I'll assume that I am a bit younger than most of the users on this forum. Disney is trying to appeal to my generation and they are doing it successfully (for the most part). Just like Disney has tried to appeal to every previous generation before mine. A lot of changes that have caused unhappiness among users here have been positively received by my peers. I can only speak for myself and my friends, but the additions of Galaxy's Edge and Avengers Campus have caused tons of excitement. I flew across the country to visit Disneyland in June with a full list of gift requests (exclusively from Galaxy's Edge & Avengers Campus) from my friends. Marvel is rabidly popular in my age range and Star Wars is pretty popular as well. The upcoming change to Splash Mountain has also been well received, people my age grew up watching The Princess and the Frog and they are very excited for it to finally get a proper attraction. No one that I know feels strong connection with the Song of the South music and characters - even in the context of the ride.

I am not trying to start any arguments with this post. Just wanted to share the my outlook as well as the views of people I know. Disney is working to appeal to younger people because that's how this works. I am sure that changes made in the 80s & 90s weren't always well received by guests that visited in the 50s and 60s. This is part of life when you have something that continually changes over the decades. Darwin said something along the lines of: 'adapt or die'. Disney is adapting.

 

[josh2000]

Not everything Disney makes is good. Not every change is good. I know that very well. But some of the most hated additions to the parks by the folks on this forum have been positively received by younger people. That's all I am really trying to say

 

[Prince John]

SW:GE (I’m aware I’m in the minority here)

You're far from being in the minority here. There are many of us, self included, who although may appreciate the land and rides within for what they are... feel it has no place being in Walt's original park.

 

[Prince John]

But some of the most hated additions to the parks by the folks on this forum have been positively received by younger people. That's all I am really trying to say

If DL were to build the tallest, fastest giga coaster and place it smack in the middle of the park, with steel track and beams hovering over all the themed lands, and name it "The Zim-Zam-Blippity-Blam!", I guarantee you it will be positively received by young people and a wide majority of the "general" public.
Does this mean it still makes sense for it to happen, or would make us as fans who appreciate Disney's past traditions "wrong" when we blow a gasket over it?

 

[josh2000]

Does this mean it still makes sense for it to happen, or would make us as fans who appreciate Disney's past traditions "wrong" when we blow a gasket over it?

No. It does not. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm simply trying to show that Galaxy's Edge and Avengers Campus are well-received by younger people. Even while older Disney fans may dislike them. People I've talked to that wouldn't normally want to visit Disneyland have told me that their interest has increased because of these new lands.

If DL were to build the tallest, fastest giga coaster and place it smack in the middle of the park, with steel track and beams hovering over all the themed lands, and name it "The Zim-Zam-Blippity-Blam!", I guarantee you it will be positively received by young people and a wide majority of the "general" public.

I don't agree with that. Maybe a small minority of people would like that but people are smarter than you might give them credit for. It's not only Disney die-hards that appreciate proper theming and good design.

Thanks for the constructive response to my post.

 

[TP2000]

My interest in the place is falling away quickly post-pandemic. It's not one thing, just dozens of little things all adding up. Much like @mickEblu mentioned.

The collapse of standards and grooming. The removal of calling me a gentleman (or a lady) instead of using the anodyne word "friend" so as to not offend the 0.05% of the customer base standing on Main Street USA waiting for the fireworks. The claim that singing chickens are racist, or that some of Walt Disney's own loving Imagineering work is "problematic" while the execs making that claim still shamefully cash their paychecks each week from the Walt Disney Company. The Apps. The lines for security and parking and ticketing and anything remotely related to the sloppy and painful "Guest Arrival Experience" that a highly paid Vice President is actually in charge of yet fails at continually. The removal of the little details and niceties and fripperies that had been there for decades, but are now cut and gone and stopped. The way it's obvious no one from TDA has ever visited Universal Studios to see how an efficient parking/entry operation works.

Disneyland has become more like WDW; corporate, canned, poorly managed, and rather bland.

It doesn't help that my 2021 summer social season has exploded as my crowd all catches up on cancelled and scaled back plans from 2020. It also doesn't help that I have no idea why Spiderman has a corporate campus of some kind in Disneyland, or that Star Wars Land left me cold and flat a year and a half ago.

I'm just kind of busy with other stuff. Disneyland isn't quite the same any more. It changed, and I'm moving on.

 

[CaptinEO]

At this point I'd rather just enjoy my other hobbies since I have come to the conclusion that Disneyland/TWDC doing something I like is a lost cause. No point in continually getting wrapped up in it.

I have fully moved to the acceptance phase that Disneyland will never be the place it was to me even 5 years ago. No amount of online criticism will cause the company to do a 180. It's OK, life goes on and lots of other fun hobbies to enjoy. I'm not bitter and am beyond grateful for all the nice years I had at the pre 2016 version of Disneyland.

 

[smooch]

I think you've hit the nail on the head 100%. I am 21 years old, so I'll assume that I am a bit younger than most of the users on this forum. Disney is trying to appeal to my generation and they are doing it successfully (for the most part). Just like Disney has tried to appeal to every previous generation before mine. A lot of changes that have caused unhappiness among users here have been positively received by my peers. I can only speak for myself and my friends, but the additions of Galaxy's Edge and Avengers Campus have caused tons of excitement. I flew across the country to visit Disneyland in June with a full list of gift requests (exclusively from Galaxy's Edge & Avengers Campus) from my friends. Marvel is rabidly popular in my age range and Star Wars is pretty popular as well. The upcoming change to Splash Mountain has also been well received, people my age grew up watching The Princess and the Frog and they are very excited for it to finally get a proper attraction. No one that I know feels strong connection with the Song of the South music and characters - even in the context of the ride.

I am not trying to start any arguments with this post. Just wanted to share the my outlook as well as the views of people I know. Disney is working to appeal to younger people because that's how this works. I am sure that changes made in the 80s & 90s weren't always well received by guests that visited in the 50s and 60s. This is part of life when you have something that continually changes over the decades. Darwin said something along the lines of: 'adapt or die'. Disney is adapting.

I'm also 21, turning 22 in 2 weeks exactly, and every person I know including huge Disney fans / AP holders (when they were a thing) and even cast members / former cast members have loved the changes. They love the Instagrammable locations / food items, they are almost all very excited for PatF over Splash Mountain, love SW:GE (I haven't been so can't comment) and the few who have been to Avenger's Campus have said they enjoyed it, not as much as SW:GE but that it's fun and the ride and characters are cool to see. I definitely feel I'm in the minority of not being excited about lots of recent changes when it comes to my friends / age group, Disney is doing a very good job appealing to younger people. My friends don't seem to care that you have to be glued to your phone to ride either of Disney's newest rides or order food, but I am not excited to experience the lack of walk up dining or having to be on my phone at rope drop to be able to ride RotR. There's still delicious food that isn't mediocre but looks good for a photo that I can get, there are still the classic rides I love, but with Splash being changed I'm scared of other rides I felt were classics and untouchable will also change and I'll really stop wanting to go.

I go once every couple of years, so I still look forward to any opportunities I get to visit, but I do not like the recent changes. But practically every person I know around my age loves the changes, so yes, Disney is doing a good job appealing to the newer generations and their tastes / habits / interests. People don't care there's a whole land in Disneyland themed to one IP, ruining the traditional layout of broad themed lands in Walt's original park. They enjoy the changes because it's Disney or it's an IP they enjoy.

 

[Stevek]

My breaking point was a few years ago when we finally decided not to renew our APs...ironically because there were too many APs and and parks were incredibly overcrowded. I can't say that anything they've done with regards to Pixar Pier, Galaxy's Edge (I loathe the boarding pass system) or Avengers Campus have done anything to negatively effect my experience being at the parks though. While things like PP weren't necessary, the ride experiences really haven't changed and I actually prefer the GOTG experience over TOT.

I am a bit disappointed by the overcorrection Disney is making on some attractions and as mickEblu stated above, some of the inclusion things. There is a middle ground, Disney doesn't seem to want to go there though. I'm also not a fan of technology taking over everything. I don't want to have to be on my phone constantly to get a fastpass, join virtual queue, secure boarding pass and especially to order food and then have to wait a couple hours to eat.

The reality is that having gone to DL since the early 70's, I've had to experience the loss of many cherished attractions like Adventure Thru Innerspace, Mine Train, Peoplemover, Circlevision, Skyway, America Sings...all things I loved and miss but those losses did not kill my enthusiasm in any way. It really came down to just feeling Disneyland became a hangout for so many (aka a giant AP population) vs a special place to visit and that took away that feeling of anticipation and Disney magic I had experienced most of my life. Bottom line, going to Disneyland became a chore...

 

[October82]

At this point I'd rather just enjoy my other hobbies since I have come to the conclusion that Disneyland/TWDC doing something I like is a lost cause. No point in continually getting wrapped up in it.

I have fully moved to the acceptance phase that Disneyland will never be the place it was to me even 5 years ago. No amount of online criticism will cause the company to do a 180. It's OK, life goes on and lots of other fun hobbies to enjoy. I'm not bitter and am beyond grateful for all the nice years I had at the pre 2016 version of Disneyland.

Pretty much the same here. It became clear I was no longer the sort of customer that Disney cared about courting, so Disney is no longer a brand I'm particularly invested in. Especially when there are other theme parks that do a better job of what Disney used to do.

 

[Stevek]

Pretty much the same here. It became clear I was no longer the sort of customer that Disney cared about courting, so Disney is no longer a brand I'm particularly invested in. Especially when there are other theme parks that do a better job of what Disney used to do.

I think Universal is the only one coming close to Disney at this point given what they've done with Potter and some of their other new additions. That being said, if people complain about Disney being IP based well....Uni says Hello!

Are there other parks doing a better job than Disney?

 

[SplashGhost]

I'm also 21, turning 22 in 2 weeks exactly, and every person I know including huge Disney fans / AP holders (when they were a thing) and even cast members / former cast members have loved the changes. They love the Instagrammable locations / food items, they are almost all very excited for PatF over Splash Mountain, love SW:GE (I haven't been so can't comment) and the few who have been to Avenger's Campus have said they enjoyed it, not as much as SW:GE but that it's fun and the ride and characters are cool to see. I definitely feel I'm in the minority of not being excited about lots of recent changes when it comes to my friends / age group, Disney is doing a very good job appealing to younger people. My friends don't seem to care that you have to be glued to your phone to ride either of Disney's newest rides or order food, but I am not excited to experience the lack of walk up dining or having to be on my phone at rope drop to be able to ride RotR. There's still delicious food that isn't mediocre but looks good for a photo that I can get, there are still the classic rides I love, but with Splash being changed I'm scared of other rides I felt were classics and untouchable will also change and I'll really stop wanting to go.

I go once every couple of years, so I still look forward to any opportunities I get to visit, but I do not like the recent changes. But practically every person I know around my age loves the changes, so yes, Disney is doing a good job appealing to the newer generations and their tastes / habits / interests. People don't care there's a whole land in Disneyland themed to one IP, ruining the traditional layout of broad themed lands in Walt's original park. They enjoy the changes because it's Disney or it's an IP they enjoy.

I am 35 and agree with your points, so it is good to know that someone in the younger generation feels similar to how I do.

A lot of the appeal of Disneyland and its attractions is that they are timeless. So trying to appeal to one particular age group makes things less timeless, and these attractions made to appeal to the current young generation will likely age poorly.

I'm a MCU fan and I think Avengers Campus and especially Web Slingers looks terrible. It isn't the IPs being used that I have an issue with, it is how they are being used. It is possible to make Marvel rides that will fit in the parks and also be of good quality, but Chapek is more concerned with basing these experiences around upcharges and merchandising.

 

[October82]

I think Universal is the only one coming close to Disney at this point given what they've done with Potter and some of their other new additions. That being said, if people complain about Disney being IP based well....Uni says Hello!

Are there other parks doing a better job than Disney?

You're right that there aren't parks with the same business model/scale of the Disney/Universal duopoly in the US. There are definitely parks (e.g. Dollywood, etc.) that have moments, but I was mostly thinking of what the larger European parks have been doing in the last 5-10 years. They're doing things that are comparable to "old school" Disney. Those parks make offerings like Avengers Campus look clearly as poor a showing as they are. I'm in a minority, for sure, but I know where I'll be spending my theme park vacation dollars.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I think Universal is the only one coming close to Disney at this point given what they've done with Potter and some of their other new additions. That being said, if people complain about Disney being IP based well....Uni says Hello!

Are there other parks doing a better job than Disney?

I continue to give Universal my money over Disney. I have fairly pricey trip planned for Universal in Orlando with probable skipping of Disney parks and I even got a Universal Hollyweird AP, which I haven't even used yet, and I've never even been there. I think my contribution to the "Everything you're doing is bad, I want you to know this" message we can all send with our wallets is likely pathetic and pointless since Disney seems to make trillions of dollars regardless, as long as they can operate their businesses, that is. Any attempt to boycott or criticize is completely irrelevant unless it's some sort of Social Justice Baloney that can destroy classic elements of Disneyland, in which case Disney is absolutely paying attention and interested. In fact, they're taking suggestions free of charge.

 

[D.Silentu]

The removal of calling me a gentleman (or a lady) instead of using the anodyne word "friend" so as to not offend the 0.05% of the customer base

Wait a moment, are they actually calling guests "friend" now? The idea of a stranger calling me that, especially if they're likely to be giving an unsolicited direction, is disingenuous to the point it makes me cringe. I may have found my breaking point!

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

We're NOT friends!

 

[Disstevefan1]

I guess my breaking point was the Park Pass Reservation system. I had renewed my family of three WDW platinum APs for the last 13 years or so. In the past few years we barely broke even but I always renewed in case we wanted to drop into the parks at the drop of a hat as we are NOT planners. When we did visit, we made the mouse happy with all the stuff we purchased.

December 2019 was our very last visit, ironically, a hard ticket event, the Christmas party, but the AP got us free parking my favorite thing about the AP.

Then the pandemic hit in March of 2020, our APs were still valid, fast forward to June WDW reopened, then the dreaded Park Pass Reservation System. Mostly because of the pandemic, and a lot to do with the park pass reservation system, we never returned.

The reason I always purchased the Platinum AP was the ability to go any time we liked with no reservation, no blackouts. That was a huge value to me. I am only free on the weekends and as we all know, the weekends are the most crowded times, and with the park pass reservation system, we need to plan weeks ahead for a Saturday or a Sunday. Not good for us.

We all know the Park Pass reservation system is HERE TO STAY FOR APs that's not good for our family.

There is speculation they may offer the modern equivalent of the platinum pass we used to get (no reservation, no blackouts) but this new platinum pass look alike will be way too expensive in this post pandemic WDW.

I have already rationalized, we always have Universal Orlando and SeaWorld Orlando, we really do love those parks. If I need some Disney, there is always Disney Springs where I can buy a $12 cookie...

 

[smooch]

I am 35 and agree with your points, so it is good to know that someone in the younger generation feels similar to how I do.

A lot of the appeal of Disneyland and its attractions is that they are timeless. So trying to appeal to one particular age group makes things less timeless, and these attractions made to appeal to the current young generation will likely age poorly.

I'm a MCU fan and I think Avengers Campus and especially Web Slingers looks terrible. It isn't the IPs being used that I have an issue with, it is how they are being used. It is possible to make Marvel rides that will fit in the parks and also be of good quality, but Chapek is more concerned with basing these experiences around upcharges and merchandising.

I agree, I love Spider-Man (my favorite superhero since the Raimi trilogy came out when I was little) but the ride doesn't interest me. Not every ride needs to be a game / interactive like WEB Slingers or the Millenium Falcon. I hate this trend, and I really hope they stop. Disney doesn't need to "compete with video games" by making big video games like they mentioned in their Imagineering Story episode. People don't think to themselves "should I play a game or go to Disneyland. I don't want to go to Disneyland to play a game or even be part of a ride's story, I wanna ride a ride and watch a story unfold around me without having to interact with people, honestly. That's why I love Pirates and Haunted Mansion so much, heck literally any ride aside from newer rides. Everything is an experience and an upcharge, the fact that one of the main "attractions" of SW:GE is a $200 lightsaber building experience, followed by a $100 droid building experience, followed by an overpriced bar you have to hope you can even get a reservation to go spend money in is absurd. Oh and other than that it's a video game ride and a new E-Ticket I haven't ridden / seen yet. I am a massive Star Wars fan and wanna go to the land still and see everything as I haven't been yet but I'm not dying to go because I know how underwhelming it seems to be since I don't want to spend $400+ just in SW:GE on top of the rest of the costs for a trip to Disneyland.