I sincerely hope after how Desantis has spoken publicly about Disney, Disney scraps the plans.
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Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
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I sincerely hope after how Desantis has spoken publicly about Disney, Disney scraps the plans.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
It's clear that DeSantis doesn't realize just how many people WDW draws to his state.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I don’t think Disney will reverse the moving plans. If they did, I’d be shocked.
The way this has backfired so heavily on Disney.
Really shows how Chapek and his team do not have the same handle on the brand image that Iger had.
Really shows how Chapek and his team do not have the same handle on the brand image that Iger had.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
If this Tweeter named Nina West was making an attempt to say that Disney's stock price was down 0.8% due to this PR mess, I'm not sure showing a 0.8% loss last Monday on a day the Dow Jones as a whole dropped 0.7% is quite the stinging rebuke Nina West thinks it is.
Here's where Disney stock sits at the closing bell for this week, as of this evening. It's now at $140, up $8 from it's Monday low, again a day the Dow Jones declined broadly for all indices.
That's something we agree on!
It's definitely a PR mess bungled by the charmless and out of touch Bob Chapek. But he has the potential to do that with many topics, not just Florida public school curriculum on sexual orientation.
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
They won't. This is just a wedge issue the hipster Imagineers are trying to use to prevent them having to move to Florida. They'd rather keep their cool Silver Lake or downtown Pasadena pad and stay in SoCal. They don't want to live in Orlando.
I don't blame them for trying to make this a thing, but it's not going to prevent the Walt Disney Company from moving a few thousand jobs to their under construction work campus in Lake Nona. And those first few thousand moves are just the start. There's more moves to come in fiscal '23 and '24.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
Okay, let's see:
Blackface - where a white man dresses up as someone he's not - a black man - and puts on makeup and costuming to exaggerate black facial features and gestures in an offensive way. Which is bad.
Native American depictions - where a white person dresses up as someone he/she is not - a Native American - and puts on makeup and costuming to exaggerate Native American facial features and gestures in an offensive way. Which is bad.
Drag - where a man dresses up as someone he's not - a woman - and puts on makeup and costuming to exaggerate womanly facial features and attitudes in an offensive way. Which is bad.
Am I doing this right?
If not, why are first two of these over-the-top masquerades/impersonations offensive while the third is not? Oh, you say that women aren't offended by drag? Are you sure? And if they were, would they be able to (safely) say anything about it?
See how crazy this can get? As for this "nation divided" business, maybe it's because people are losing their excrement over the slightest thing and making (or trying to, I doubt most people care) a national issue out of it. This incident was an error that Disney didn't intend. It should apologize, and the apology should be accepted. But will that happen? Doesn't look like it.
I will admit I'm enjoying Disney's discomfiture over all this. It goes back to my assertion that Disney should never have gotten involved in politics in the first place. Big mistake that is now backfiring over and over.
As for the same-sex kiss in Lightyear...okay, that'll make some happy, but others unhappy. And politically, the pendulum is swinging back to the right, and it's swinging hard. Which means that here comes ANOTHER controversy, which means that this is another lose-lose situation for Disney.
IMO, the employees at Disney who are screeching about all this are spoiled brats. Again, the most they should expect from Disney is a paycheck, decent working conditions, and benefits. Asking the company who pays them to be their moral and political crusader is the height of arrogance. And I bet your average American citizen is looking at this whole mess with even more contempt for Disney, whether that citizen leans left OR right. What a mess. What a freaking mess.
Blackface - where a white man dresses up as someone he's not - a black man - and puts on makeup and costuming to exaggerate black facial features and gestures in an offensive way. Which is bad.
Native American depictions - where a white person dresses up as someone he/she is not - a Native American - and puts on makeup and costuming to exaggerate Native American facial features and gestures in an offensive way. Which is bad.
Drag - where a man dresses up as someone he's not - a woman - and puts on makeup and costuming to exaggerate womanly facial features and attitudes in an offensive way. Which is bad.
Am I doing this right?
If not, why are first two of these over-the-top masquerades/impersonations offensive while the third is not? Oh, you say that women aren't offended by drag? Are you sure? And if they were, would they be able to (safely) say anything about it?
See how crazy this can get? As for this "nation divided" business, maybe it's because people are losing their excrement over the slightest thing and making (or trying to, I doubt most people care) a national issue out of it. This incident was an error that Disney didn't intend. It should apologize, and the apology should be accepted. But will that happen? Doesn't look like it.
I will admit I'm enjoying Disney's discomfiture over all this. It goes back to my assertion that Disney should never have gotten involved in politics in the first place. Big mistake that is now backfiring over and over.
As for the same-sex kiss in Lightyear...okay, that'll make some happy, but others unhappy. And politically, the pendulum is swinging back to the right, and it's swinging hard. Which means that here comes ANOTHER controversy, which means that this is another lose-lose situation for Disney.
IMO, the employees at Disney who are screeching about all this are spoiled brats. Again, the most they should expect from Disney is a paycheck, decent working conditions, and benefits. Asking the company who pays them to be their moral and political crusader is the height of arrogance. And I bet your average American citizen is looking at this whole mess with even more contempt for Disney, whether that citizen leans left OR right. What a mess. What a freaking mess.
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
Not firing employees who don’t move was also one of the walk out demands, this is a Hail Mary by those that don’t want to move, I’m sure many genuinely care about the legislations affects but I also feel just as sure many are just abusing the LGBT rights platform for their own personal benefit, which is pretty disgusting.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
How is the Break Time Walk Out going? Still a few dozen white collar cubicle friends all logging off from email for 15 minutes?
I did find this Tweet. It shows 33 employees in Burbank "walking out" for their 15 minute afternoon coffee break. I get that these young folks (the majority look to be under age 30, with about four or five in their 40's or 50's) think this makes a statement. But I just find it so vapid and meaninigless and self-congratulatory. They are losing nothing by doing this; they lose no pay, receive no reprimand, receive no criticism from a boss or coworker, and likely receive status for being "brave" when it takes no real bravery to do this.
I did find this Tweet. It shows 33 employees in Burbank "walking out" for their 15 minute afternoon coffee break. I get that these young folks (the majority look to be under age 30, with about four or five in their 40's or 50's) think this makes a statement. But I just find it so vapid and meaninigless and self-congratulatory. They are losing nothing by doing this; they lose no pay, receive no reprimand, receive no criticism from a boss or coworker, and likely receive status for being "brave" when it takes no real bravery to do this.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
I can easily imagine that most Imagineers are politically left of center, and some of the youngest ones living in LA might even identify as Socialist (LA politics has several elected officials who are openly Socialist). Thus, many of the Imagineers based in Glendale, California disagree with this legislative bill in Florida.
But the whole "Don't make us move to Florida!" angle to this protest is just their last shot at trying to prevent having to move to Florida. It's a noble attempt, but it's fairly self-serving and not entirely believable since they already made a big stink about moving to Florida when it was announced last year.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting point about Drag. While I don't hang out in gay bars much any more, I have decades of 20th century experience going to see Drag shows at the bars. I know for a fact that there are women who are offended by Drag Queens, especially the modern ones who have really become very vulgar in their acts. (Drag Queens were always risque' and worked blue for an adult bar crowd, but nowadays it's too often just raunchy and vile humor at a woman's expense.) I'm going to have to ponder that some more, as I think you've hit on something.
Where do you draw the line? And how does the Drag community claim exemption from the same standards?
Oh my gosh, yes about them coming off as spoiled brats!
I laugh at the "Break Time Walkout" thing. And they all Tweet and Retweet it, trolling for Likes and adulation, because... they did basically nothing. They have a cushy white collar job. They hit pause on their email and went down to get a Starbucks in the lobby at 3 o'clock and pose for photos with their like-minded friends. They did something!
Meanwhile, CM's working the actual theme park operation in Florida can't walk away from their job for 15 minutes. The CM's have to wait for an assigned break, a time that changes day to day. And that's when they have a few moments to visit the bathroom, attend to personal needs, or scarf down a snack before they go back to loading Space Mountain rockets for the next two hours and dealing with customer complaints at the height check station.
The Imagineers in particular seem to be fairly tone deaf on how spoiled they sound. This is an issue of Class, not gender or sexuality. A Class of Disney workers have the luxury of consistent break times, freedom to walk around their office complex at will, and a supervisory structure that they know won't dare touch them regarding a reprimand for their walk out stunt.
If a Working Class CM at a theme park tried this stunt and just walked away from their assigned work position, they'd be subject to discipline, lost pay, and documented reprimands on their HR record. So really, how brave are you for just pushing your Herman Miller office chair back and going to get a Starbucks for 15 minutes?
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Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Yep, that’s what I’m assuming. The ones hoping for a reversal are likely those who’ve agreed to move to keep their jobs, but would rather not move and stay in California.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
How so?
I'm a huge fan of Coco Peru, and her YouTube videos where she wanders around the Van Nuys WalMart looking for a Wonder Woman Crock Pot (they exist), or goes to Target to find her special kind of Lee Press-On Nails are hysterical! A Coco Peru video and a cocktail is often a very enjoyable evening at my house.
And within the context of that kind of Drag; Coco Peru at WalMart just being herself, I think it's okay.
And yet... many of the younger Drag Queens are now really out there. They're telling spectacularly vulgar jokes about female anatomy, they have stage names that play off female anatomy, they take female stereotypes to an absurd level. And beyond.
Sure, Drag is usually in front of a crowd of like-minded folks who want to be there. But... you can say that about all the entertainment or costuming that is no longer allowed. Black Face, Indian dress and icons, certain costumes at a Halloween party (a Hispanic guy can wear a sombrero on Halloween, but a white guy can not, etc.).
It really does seem to be a valid point that Drag steps way over the same lines that many other art and entertainment forms are now no longer allowed to step over. I'm still trying to mull this over in my mind, again after many decades of personal experience with those bar acts, so I'm just sort of thinking out loud here. There seems to me to be validity to @Magenta Panther's point.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Drag, in general, has historically not been seen as something overtly offensive and harmful. There are people out there who are offended, sure. But in general?How so?
I'm a huge fan of Coco Peru, and her YouTube videos where she wanders around the Van Nuys WalMart looking for a Wonder Woman Crock Pot (they exist), or goes to Target to find her special kind of Lee Press-On Nails are hysterical! A Coco Peru video and a cocktail is often a very enjoyable evening at my house.
And within the context of that kind of Drag; Coco Peru at WalMart just being herself, I think it's okay.
And yet... many of the younger Drag Queens are now really out there. They're telling spectacularly vulgar jokes about female anatomy, they have stage names that play off female anatomy, they take female stereotypes to an absurd level. And beyond.
Sure, it's usually in front of a crowd of like-minded folks who paid to be there. But... you can say that about all the entertainment or costuming that is no longer allowed. Black Face, Indian dress and icons, certain costumes at a Halloween party (a Hispanic guy can wear a sombrero on Halloween, but a white guy can not, etc.).
It really does seem to be a valid point that Drag steps way over the same lines that many other art and entertainment forms are now no longer allowed to step over. I'm still trying to mull this over in my mind, again after many decades of personal experience with those bar acts, so I'm just sort of thinking out loud here. There seems to me to be validity to @Magenta Panther's point.
Can’t say the same about Blackface and wearing traditional Native American garb as costumes. Historical context is important.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Black Face and wearing Indian clothing, or using Indian iconagraphy in advertising etc., wasn't always offensive to the vast majority of Americans. Even in 1940 when Black Face was still widely acceptable socially, the Black population of America was only 9.8%. That means just over 90% of Americans were not Black in 1940 (88% Non-Hispanic White in 1940), and thus hadn't come to the full realization that it was offensive. Or at the very least, realized they should stop laughing at it because it was gross and demeaning to fellow humans.
The statistics are even more lopsided with Indian clothing, mascot names, and graphical use in advertising, etc. The population of American Indians has been less than 1.0% of the country for the past 100 years. In 2020, only 0.8% of Americans claim to be even partly American Indian or Eskimo/Inuit.
So "in general", the offensive use of Black or Indian stereotypes has not been seen as something overtly offensive or harmful by a vast majority of the population. That has changed, thankfully, mainly because those demographics had activists who stood up and said "Hey, that's offensive! Stop using our culture and humanity for laughs!"
But if only a minority of American women find 2020's vulgar Drag Queens offensive, is that an excuse to keep doing it? Or keep letting it be an acceptable art form that can be on TV and in movies? If only 10% of America's 115 Million women find Drag offensive, do we ignore them because they're only 5% of the total population? What if 20% of American women find Drag offensive? 30%?
When do you get enough offended people to make a difference? 115 Million Americans are female currently.
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
Heading into a lovely spring weekend as I ponder what kind of beverage to make in 20 minutes to celebrate spring during the 6 o'clock cocktail hour, I must say...
I don't envy Disney here. They're in a mess, mostly of their own making. It's pretty much a no-win situation for them. And they've got movie tickets to sell and vacation packages to book from a wide array of American families with a diversity of values and opinions, not just the Twitter mob who often doesn't even buy Disney products. This is a mess.
Whoever was writing Bob Chapek's communication for him needs to take a vacation. Perhaps find another career path. Because Bob Chapek's public statements have caused this mess to be even bigger than it needed to be.
Have a great weekend, gang! And now...
I don't envy Disney here. They're in a mess, mostly of their own making. It's pretty much a no-win situation for them. And they've got movie tickets to sell and vacation packages to book from a wide array of American families with a diversity of values and opinions, not just the Twitter mob who often doesn't even buy Disney products. This is a mess.
Whoever was writing Bob Chapek's communication for him needs to take a vacation. Perhaps find another career path. Because Bob Chapek's public statements have caused this mess to be even bigger than it needed to be.
Have a great weekend, gang! And now...
It's an interesting concept putting Drag under the same lens, but I think the intent of Drag is very important, and very different than the mentioned comparisons.
I will say however, my Mom loves Drag, but has felt offended by some of the Queen's on Drag Race where she feels they make fun of women.
There is a certainly a line that can be crossed in Drag I am sure, but this is the same with any performance. But also, Drag is for everyone. We have Drag Queens, Kings, Non-Binary Drag. All races and genders are welcome.
"Drag is a gender-bending art form in which a person dresses in clothing and makeup meant to exaggerate a specific gender identity, usually of the opposite sex. While drag's main purpose has been for drag performance and entertainment, it is also used as self-expression and a celebration of LGBTQ+ pride."
I've always seen Drag as a statement, a screw you to the confines of societal norms.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Blackface was yet another tool used by white people to crap on black people. That’s enough of a reason to explain why there’s no comparison.Black Face and wearing Indian clothing, or using Indian iconagraphy in advertising etc., wasn't always offensive to the vast majority of Americans. Even in 1940 when Black Face was still widely acceptable socially, the Black population of America was only 9.8%. That means just over 90% of Americans were not Black in 1940 (88% Non-Hispanic White in 1940), and thus hadn't come to the full realization that it was offensive. Or at the very least, realized they should stop laughing at it because it was gross and demeaning to fellow humans.
The statistics are even more lopsided with Indian clothing, mascot names, and graphical use in advertising, etc. The population of American Indians has been less than 1.0% of the country for the past 100 years. In 2020, only 0.8% of Americans claim to be even partly American Indian or Eskimo/Inuit.
So "in general", the offensive use of Black or Indian stereotypes has not been seen as something overtly offensive or harmful by a vast majority of the population. That has changed, thankfully, mainly because those demographics had activists who stood up and said "Hey, that's offensive! Stop using our culture and humanity for laughs!"
But if only a minority of American women find 2020's vulgar Drag Queens offensive, is that an excuse to keep doing it? Or keep letting it be an acceptable art form that can be on TV and in movies? If only 10% of America's 115 Million women find Drag offensive, do we ignore them because they're only 5% of the total population? What if 20% of American women find Drag offensive? 30%?
When do you get enough offended people to make a difference? 115 Million Americans are female currently.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this post. This is what I was getting at, but you said it better than I did.
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