Bloomberg - No Disney Fun for Orlando Workers as Poverty Nears 20%

[natatomic]

I'm sorry. Your post couldn't be any farther from the truth.

Fact: 3rd shift receives a $1/hr premium because of the hours they work, not for the duties they do. And there is often too much work to be done at night that it takes several days to get it done. How do you think an entire theme park gets clean each and every night if there isn't anything to do? Not one leaf or piece of trash is found on the pathways when the park opens in the mornings. Every inch of carpet has been vacuumed, every toilet power scrubbed, every kitchen cleaned of grease, every cobweb removed. The ones sleeping on a bench is the breakrooms are usually kitchen staff.

Fact: Disney Casting Recruiters do discriminate against people with visible tattoos and bad teeth. The long sleeves you see are a part of every role as a cold-weather option, not to cover tattoos. And recruiters check your smile at Casting to see if there are missing teeth, which then you will not be allowed to be in front of guests. Truth.

I will tell you, I've witnessed this first hand on many occasions.

Apparently we work at two completely different Disney Worlds, because I work with two different people with tattoo sleeves, and three people with tattoos on their calves (not to mention the dozens of people with little tattoos here and there that they just cover up), and that's just in my current area. It's been like that in EVERY area I've worked in. And the teeth? I have worked with numerous people in all my areas with visibly disgusting and/or missing teeth. FACT.
And the people I see sleeping in the breakroom a are wearing custodial costumes. Yeah, there's a lot to do at night - I agree with you there - but it's not like they have three people in the entire park doing all that work.

 

[COProgressFan]

... but I have worked some overnight shifts before, and they also spend half the night sleeping in a bench in a breakroom because there is rarely that much to be done....
.

Not trying to jump into your argument, but honestly, simply as a theme park guest, I can say there is PLENTY of work to be done overnight, that simply isn't getting done. Have you ever been the parks first thing in the morning and see filthy carpets in need of steam cleaning, or filthy buildings in need of power washing, etc.? There is plenty to be done. If employees are sleeping on the job its not for lack of work....

EDIT: Just wanted to add, this is a management problem. Staff the overnight maintenance crews appropriately, and make sure the work is being done. Clearly this is just not happening, and anyone with any authority or oversight is not on top of those who are supposed to make sure this work occurs.

 

[natatomic]

Not trying to jump into your argument, but honestly, simply as a theme park guest, I can say there is PLENTY of work to be done overnight, that simply isn't getting done. Have you ever been the parks first thing in the morning and see filthy carpets in need of steam cleaning, or filthy buildings in need of power washing, etc.? There is plenty to be done. If employees are sleeping on the job its not for lack of work....

EDIT: Just wanted to add, this is a management problem. Staff the overnight maintenance crews appropriately, and make sure the work is being done. Clearly this is just not happening, and anyone with any authority or oversight is not on top of those who are supposed to make sure this work occurs.

True. There is plenty to be done. But i think it's a mixture of management not cracking the whip on some of the CMs as well as there also being PLENTY of CMs there to do the work. I'm not saying there isn't a lot to do, but again, it's not all done by just three people. Plus, there's third shift maintenance and 3rd shift horticulture that also take care of some of the stuff that one might initially think was custodial's responsibility but isn't.

 

[kjb101791]

It's all about supply and demand. Disney can get high-quality workers for little money. If somebody wants to make more, they can go somewhere else and there will be 100 people waiting in line to take that job. That being said, if I were Bob Iger, I would be willing to sacrifice my own salary to the hourly workers to encourage better work. I guess it's easy for me to tell other people what to do with their money, though.

 

[natatomic]

Not trying to jump into your argument, but honestly, simply as a theme park guest, I can say there is PLENTY of work to be done overnight, that simply isn't getting done. Have you ever been the parks first thing in the morning and see filthy carpets in need of steam cleaning, or filthy buildings in need of power washing, etc.? There is plenty to be done. If employees are sleeping on the job its not for lack of work....

EDIT: Just wanted to add, this is a management problem. Staff the overnight maintenance crews appropriately, and make sure the work is being done. Clearly this is just not happening, and anyone with any authority or oversight is not on top of those who are supposed to make sure this work occurs.

Also, I should add that I wasn't trying to make it sound like 3rd shift custodial just sits on their butts all night - it was probably more of a knee-jerk (slightly exaggerated) response given my completely different experience than the one @raven described. Obviously they do work, else the parks wouldn't be clean the next day. I'm just saying they aren't doing hours and hours of back breaking work with nary a chance to sit down, but a lot of the work is done by people in other roles as well (again, maintenance, horticulture, etc.). They do have a good amount of down time, probably just as much as the day time custodians do. Plus, they don't have guests to interact with, nor are the working in the blazing heat of the day. There are some benefits to working at night, including the extra dollar, that make it more appealing - it's not like it's a punishment job for having a tiny four leaf clover tattoo on your ankle. Most people there are there because they WANT it. Also, I don't say any of this from experience, but I say it from a first hand account of my husband who shadowed third shift custodial.

 

[Gabe1]

Not trying to jump into your argument, but honestly, simply as a theme park guest, I can say there is PLENTY of work to be done overnight, that simply isn't getting done. Have you ever been the parks first thing in the morning and see filthy carpets in need of steam cleaning, or filthy buildings in need of power washing, etc.? There is plenty to be done. If employees are sleeping on the job its not for lack of work....

EDIT: Just wanted to add, this is a management problem. Staff the overnight maintenance crews appropriately, and make sure the work is being done. Clearly this is just not happening, and anyone with any authority or oversight is not on top of those who are supposed to make sure this work occurs.

But before all that the budgets for sufficient staffing must occur. You can't cut the staff levels down to increase profits and still expect the same level of maintenance, it won't happen.

 

[BigTxEars]

I think in today's society , that hard work & entry level jobs can pay off but not like it used too.

Now a days... relying on hardwork & entry level jobs can also mean relying on government assistance.

My older sister works 3... yes 3, entry level jobs. She gets to travel, do red carpet interviews, meet celebrities, and she's broke!

She pulls about $23,000 a year after taxes.
$23,000 a year sounds "okay" for one entry level job... but 3?
She works for CAU TV and Viacom (specifically VH1 and BET divisions.)
$23,000 a year sounds "okay" until you factor in the $1,000 a month student loans bill that helped get her degree to get her 3 entry level positions.

She is working 3 jobs and relying on a measly $11,000 a year to pay rent, food, utilities, transportation ($95 a month marta card), and health/dental insurance.

She has to borrow money from my older sister and I just to make ends meet sometimes.
The saddest part is... I'm still in college (actually took a break this year to deal with my parents health issues) and I am better off than she is.
Between myself and my fiance (who doesn't have a college degree), we are paying off our cars a few years early, in the process of buying our first house, and thinking of starting a family.... We do work hard but more than anything, we are lucky. I also had the benefit of seeing my sister struggle after college and made changes to my own education that allow me to go to college for basically free. (I go to Penn State btw...)

I got my current job by luck. They needed an immediate replacement for someone and I had just enough experience from college work study to meet their needs. Been here for almost 4 years now. I get amazing benefits and bonuses that many other companies wouldn't dare offer.
My fiance got a job making $17 an hour because of who he knew, not what he knew, and that seems to be the case for many successful people.

I know too many young adults with degrees who apply to job after job and get stuck working at their local mall just to survive.

Networking with someone you know is certainly the best way to get a job, that has always been true in any period of any country I would think.

I think a common mistake is "if I get a degree I will get a good job" that may have been true when degrees were less common but not in todays world. Too many young kids still think that IMO. They need to understand that a degree is not a ticket to a good job, a number of other factors are involved as well.

It's never been easy to make it in a economic system like ours, it's a very competitive one. But it is still possible today with the right attitude IMO. I simple do not believe the line about the American dream being dead.

 

[raven]

Apparently we work at two completely different Disney Worlds, because I work with two different people with tattoo sleeves, and three people with tattoos on their calves (not to mention the dozens of people with little tattoos here and there that they just cover up), and that's just in my current area. It's been like that in EVERY area I've worked in. And the teeth? I have worked with numerous people in all my areas with visibly disgusting and/or missing teeth. FACT.
And the people I see sleeping in the breakroom a are wearing custodial costumes. Yeah, there's a lot to do at night - I agree with you there - but it's not like they have three people in the entire park doing all that work.

Ok. I will tell you that I was placed on 3rd shift for this very reason. It didn't matter that I wanted PhotoPass, had been a free lance photographer for 15 years and brought in a photo album of my work. I was told that the only roles available to me, due to my look, was backstage or overnight. I worked that job for 5 years so I think I know the ins and outs of 3rd shift enough.

Plus, there's third shift maintenance and 3rd shift horticulture that also take care of some of the stuff that one might initially think was custodial's responsibility but isn't.

The only reason for that would be due to certain equipment use and OSHA laws. In this case those departments are responsible for cleaning.

Also, I should add that I wasn't trying to make it sound like 3rd shift custodial just sits on their butts all night - it was probably more of a knee-jerk (slightly exaggerated) response given my completely different experience than the one @raven described. Obviously they do work, else the parks wouldn't be clean the next day. I'm just saying they aren't doing hours and hours of back breaking work with nary a chance to sit down, but a lot of the work is done by people in other roles as well (again, maintenance, horticulture, etc.). They do have a good amount of down time, probably just as much as the day time custodians do. Plus, they don't have guests to interact with, nor are the working in the blazing heat of the day. There are some benefits to working at night, including the extra dollar, that make it more appealing - it's not like it's a punishment job for having a tiny four leaf clover tattoo on your ankle. Most people there are there because they WANT it. Also, I don't say any of this from experience, but I say it from a first hand account of my husband who shadowed third shift custodial.

Blazing heat? No. But air conditioning shuts off after hours in many places. Ever scrub 8 Friendship boats in 90% humidity with no air flow for 6 hours? Or vacuum both Innoventions and World Showplace building with a vacuum cleaner no bigger than the one you own? How about lifting 20 lbs sandbags for 4 hours straight before you are told you can take a break on the side of the road for 15 minutes when you work a Disney Marathon that's mandatory 17 hour days. No. 3rd shift custodial doesn't do hard labor at all.

 

[ford91exploder]

It's all about supply and demand. Disney can get high-quality workers for little money. If somebody wants to make more, they can go somewhere else and there will be 100 people waiting in line to take that job. That being said, if I were Bob Iger, I would be willing to sacrifice my own salary to the hourly workers to encourage better work. I guess it's easy for me to tell other people what to do with their money, though.

I don't know if I would call the majority of Disney's current CM's 'high quality' considering they are generally guest workers with extremely limited English skills. Which for better or worse is the language used by the MAJORITY of visitors to WDW.

I find I frequently need to dust off my high school Spanish to even communicate with many of the supposed 'front line' CM's.

Nothing wrong with an accent no matter how heavy, However I DO expect basic fluency in English none of this 'no habla anglais' which is far too common among mousekeeping and F&B staff at WDW.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Networking with someone you know is certainly the best way to get a job, that has always been true in any period of any country I would think.

I think a common mistake is "if I get a degree I will get a good job" that may have been true when degrees were less common but not in todays world. Too many young kids still think that IMO. They need to understand that a degree is not a ticket to a good job, a number of other factors are involved as well.

It's never been easy to make it in a economic system like ours, it's a very competitive one. But it is still possible today with the right attitude IMO. I simple do not believe the line about he American dream being dead.

Because that is what we teach. We teach people that you must go to school and get a degree if you want a good job.

If networking is what gets you far and not your degree then whats the point of school?

With a statement like, "It's never been easy to make it in a economic system like ours, it's a very competitive one. But it is still possible today with the right attitude IMO. I simple do not believe the line about he American dream being dead."

I have to ask how long ago did you graduate college? Did you grow up lower, middle, or upper class?

Because whether you have the "right attitude" or not... attitudes don't pay bills. Bills don't wait for promotions or raises, once your hard work decides to pay off.

What are young adults graduating with a ton of debt and low paying jobs to do?

Our economy cant continue on like this... our economy is a cycle.... if a large majority of our economy is in debt and not spending... we're all screwed.

People are working full time jobs and still need assistance from the government just to get by, it affects you and I as well.

Call me crazy, but I'd rather pay more for a product/service, if it means that employee is paid a living wage, no matter what the job.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

Feel free to hand out $20 bills next time you are at WDW if you feel they are underpaid, just leave my money out of it and I have no issue with it. But don't try and drag me along with the ideal that I should pay more to go to WDW because they need to pay their people more based on nothing more than personal and subjective feelings. If market factors demand they pay them more and I in turn have to pay more then I am fine with it.

I don't have a college degree, I never felt the need for one. I have no issue with degrees but it never was something I wanted to get. I grew up middle class, went in the Marine Corps right after high school. Worked a number of jobs after that. Started with my present company in 1999 and worked my way up thru the system, I knew no one in the company when I started and really did not know the industry very well. Only thing that has carried me is a strong work ethic and a great attitude. It still carries me to this day so IMO attitu matters more than almost anything. It's not as simple as "if I think I can I will" but is is as simple as "if I think I can't then I won't", that has always been true.

I have been as broke as anyone on this board I would bet, I understand that part of the issue only too well. I also understand that was what help drive me to do better, to get myself out of that lifestyle. It was my responsibility to do so, not my companies or my governments. Nothing wrong with getting a helping hand up when you are down, I certainly have had people help me. But if no hand is there then you have to decide to either stay on you butt or pull yourself up. IMO too many people stay on their butt looking for that hand from the government or their company and when it does not appear they start placing blame.

But keep in mine I am a right wing nut from Texas so.......

Have you been paying attention?
Record levels of debt per person & the cost of living vs minimum wage is laughable. Our economy is not stable at all.
The market has been demanding people get paid more. But too many businesses & people, like yourself, believe its not their problem. And the problem with that logic is that whether you like it or not, it is your problem.

Do you understand that if businesses don't pay employees a livable wage, they will have to seek help elsewhere... Government assistance. And who is paying for that? Taxpayers... Me... You.

So whether you spend an extra $50 on your Disney vacation or pay more in taxes... You will pay for it.

I'm glad things worked out for you. But the late 90s and today's economy & society are so different.
Many jobs were shipped overseas or have been replaced with technology.

People with degrees are a dime a dozen.... Today, if its a job that pays well, most likely it requires a degree. Do you believe that if you tried to get your same entry level today without a degree, that would be able to like you did 1999?
Even jobs just answering phones can require business degrees now a days.

I said earlier I currently have no degree yet but am in school. I do okay for myself with my high dipolma but if I had my degree, I could be getting paid double at another company or working for state, doing the exact same work.

Even the ability to move up has diminished with people working longer and retiring later. My mother didn't get her first promotion until she hit 16 years with her job. She has since been promoted two more times since then.
It didn't take you that long but it can for other people to move up the ladder.

Please don't believe that people want to rely on government aid. Most people are ashamed to admit they are on government assistance.
You see so many people working multiple jobs because they want to get out of their current situation. Its so hard to get an job making $30,000 without a degree. And its expensive to get a degree.
You can blame laziness but making it today is much harder than ever before.

We can agree to disagree tho... But imo anyone who works hard and puts in their 40 hours or more just like me, deserves to earn a living wage. I'd rather live in a world where we all have something than a world where some have and some don't.

 

[AEfx]

The bus driver comments that he only makes $25K/year, I have friends who are high school teachers here in FL who barely make $30K/year...

The point is wages are low in FL, period, so that just furthers the point. It's also not a "walk in off the street job" either - not just anyone can walk in and drive a bus with a regular drivers license. Teachers are terribly paid as well, that doesn't negate that others are in the same category.

Yeah and we all know that Disney is a floundering small buisness in the middle of a bad economy just trying to make ends meet.

No, but they sure run themselves like they are sometimes!

 

[AEfx]

I simple do not believe the line about the American dream being dead.

Well, belief is great but you can't pay your bills on it.

The fact that you term it a "line" really says, with all due respect, that you just aren't looking at the mathematical truth that is here and are buying into the "ideal" that directly led to the unfortunate situation of today - we made economic policies on the fallacy and that's why nothing "trickled down" and the "top" earners make more than ever, yet income levels for everyone else have gone comatose.

It also is over generalizing the meaning - the nebulous "American Dream" is not impossible, it happens - and in some areas it's more "alive" than others - it's just become provably statistically rare. It could be argued that it really wasn't as pervasive as folks perceive it was in the past to begin with, but your post really illustrated exactly what folks are talking about - if you happen to know someone, if you have the right connections, if you live in a certain area, etc.

The base of this is, these "entry level" jobs that were once "entry level" and you were able to work your way up are now seen as disposable "McJobs" with the assumption that you will get a better job - elsewhere. Gone are the days that you start as a stock boy or in the mail room and work your way up to the executive offices (or even out of that department). Now we tell folks who want to move up to go elsewhere, which is the opposite of what used to be the case (staying in the same place and working up the ranks in the same company for 30 years).

But that's the problem, there aren't enough "elsewhere" jobs for everyone to move up to. That's why folks take 2-3 of them and get stuck in a cycle - and since the population of new workers coming into the system is getting lower, we basically are running out of folks to do these jobs - these jobs that we need to function as a society - not everyone can be CEO or even a manager (effectively, we have put ourselves in the position of "too many Chiefs, not enough Native Americans" so to speak).

In the end, this is why Disney is a microcosm that is perfectly illustrative of this problem. Ask yourself this - how many old-school veteran Walt Disney Company higher-ups from the past have stories of starting out with the company shilling popcorn or sweeping up at Disneyland and worked their way up the ladder? How many folks do you think have that experience now?

 

[BigTxEars]

Well, belief is great but you can't pay your bills on it.

The fact that you term it a "line" really says, with all due respect, that you just aren't looking at the mathematical truth that is here and are buying into the "ideal" that directly led to the unfortunate situation of today - we made economic policies on the fallacy and that's why nothing "trickled down" and the "top" earners make more than ever, yet income levels for everyone else have gone comatose.

It also is over generalizing the meaning - the nebulous "American Dream" is not impossible, it happens - and in some areas it's more "alive" than others - it's just become provably statistically rare. It could be argued that it really wasn't as pervasive as folks perceive it was in the past to begin with, but your post really illustrated exactly what folks are talking about - if you happen to know someone, if you have the right connections, if you live in a certain area, etc.

The base of this is, these "entry level" jobs that were once "entry level" and you were able to work your way up are now seen as disposable "McJobs" with the assumption that you will get a better job - elsewhere. Gone are the days that you start as a stock boy or in the mail room and work your way up to the executive offices (or even out of that department). Now we tell folks who want to move up to go elsewhere, which is the opposite of what used to be the case (staying in the same place and working up the ranks in the same company for 30 years).

But that's the problem, there aren't enough "elsewhere" jobs for everyone to move up to. That's why folks take 2-3 of them and get stuck in a cycle - and since the population of new workers coming into the system is getting lower, we basically are running out of folks to do these jobs - these jobs that we need to function as a society - not everyone can be CEO or even a manager (effectively, we have put ourselves in the position of "too many Chiefs, not enough Native Americans" so to speak).

In the end, this is why Disney is a microcosm that is perfectly illustrative of this problem. Ask yourself this - how many old-school veteran Walt Disney Company higher-ups from the past have stories of starting out with the company shilling popcorn or sweeping up at Disneyland and worked their way up the ladder? How many folks do you think have that experience now?

Agree to disagree. Again I see it in action daily. I will spend three hours tomorrow in Houston recruiting for my company.

Good case in point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_McMillon

Started out working in a warehouse, now runs the entire enchilada.

Not a story from the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s or event the 2000s.....happened on Feb 1 2014.....

That is an amazing story and one that could only happen in America IMO.

But if folks want to buy into the doom and gloom then they can, I won't be one of them. If folks on here think they need to stop going to "__________" based on the low pay those employees receive then by all means they should.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

So because I'm selfless enough, that I'd rather share what little I have with everyone than be the only one with something... I sound like a communist.


Its called doing the right thing, generosity.
I'd give anyone the shirt off my back, even you.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
That's how I was raised. My parents opened their home to many of my struggling family members & their friends. If they needed help getting on their feet.. My parents helped them and never expected anything in return. By the time I was 10, we had 7 different families live in our spare rooms.
I have compassion for my fellow Americans, do you?

People don't want handouts, they want respect & to be treated like a person.
They don't want to be just a number in your payroll paperwork.

BTW... Liberal media is no more doom & gloom than anyone else... If you can't see what's right in front of you... You're blind. People need help. We live in a economy that's ruled by big businesses... They control our jobs and even politics.
There is no such thing as a safety net for struggling Americans... None.

Just because a handful of 20 something millionaires have sprung up means nothing to the millions of 20 somethings who can't even afford food.

You keep saying let the market this & that but yet you talk about the number of families on welfare....
A record number of people on welfare... And you think the system works? Good for you.

But like I said, let's agree to disagree. You can't change my feelings and I can't change yours. No point in the back in forth. And hopefully no hard feelings.[/QUOTE]

 

[ford91exploder]

Personally I'm recruiting for high level network (CCIE level +10 years experience) and test engineers with similar requirements however we have no 'entry level engineering' positions available.

This is a fundamental imbalance in our economy we just assume there is going to be a pipeline of people available yet in the interests of efficiency we no longer train people as corporations once did. Hence the disposable McJob.

 

[networkpro]

So because I'm selfless enough, that I'd rather share what little I have with everyone than be the only one with something... I sound like a communist.
Turn off FOX News please!

People don't want handouts, they want respect & to be treated like a person.
.

If they lack the skills to earn more than minimum wage, then anything more IS a handout...such as the calls for a "living wage" or "$15 dollars an hour". If you haven't heard it before you need to understand cost benefit analysis, budgeting, and "wants verses needs" for starters.

Nothing is free besides air. If you want something that someone or a company produces/gathers you have to come to an agreement on a suitable exchange of goods or services to get it.

Your exhortations to exclude one source of media input fall on deaf ears, as all media has its own biases, target demographics, and advertisers (who by the way pay for everything that they publish).

Florida is a right to work state. Labor union membership is not required or prohibited unlike New Jersey.

 

[Gomer]

Personally I'm recruiting for high level network (CCIE level +10 years experience) and test engineers with similar requirements however we have no 'entry level engineering' positions available.

This is a fundamental imbalance in our economy we just assume there is going to be a pipeline of people available yet in the interests of efficiency we no longer train people as corporations once did. Hence the disposable McJob.

I'm a hiring manager for entry level positions at a large company. And even we have fallen victim to the McJob mentality. We pay so low for those positions because of the level of pay in that level of the marketplace, that many of our employees have to work a second job to get by. And this is a corporate environment that only hires people with 4 year degrees. I fear the low wages are spreading even out of the service sector and across the board to any entry level position.

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm a hiring manager for entry level positions at a large company. And even we have fallen victim to the McJob mentality. We pay so low for those positions because of the level of pay in that level of the marketplace, that many of our employees have to work a second job to get by. And this is a corporate environment that only hires people with 4 year degrees. I fear the low wages are spreading even out of the service sector and across the board to any entry level position.

Yes it is indeed spreading and now we see H1B and L1A visas being used to fill entry level jobs as well and even by government agencies.

We really need to reevaluate our immigration policies. I don't have a problem with giving an automatic green card to foreign students who complete advanced degrees in the US.

But preferential hiring of BA/BS students from non-US sources is insane especially on the guest visas where the worker learns the US companies trade secrets and then goes home and works for a competitor. Just so a company can 'save' a few bucks

 

[seascape]

No hard feelings.

I have to disagree with you here. It is small business that creates the jobs. Big business cuts jobs by using economy of scale. Yes that means Disney and Universal. It also explains why Walmart supported and supports the affordable care act. They even said if at their Stockholders meeting. They have the size to afford it and it will keep other companies from being able to grow and compete with them. In any case all of this is off topic. The topic is should CM's be paid more. My answer is anyone who deals with paying guests should be. The interaction with the CM's is what makes WDW special. As for the behind those who work behind the seens they should be paid fair wages based on the local labor market. While Disney could afford more no one should be paid more than fair market value. The CM's in the parks ard worth more and should be rewarded based on the service they provide and I can see starting and $10.00 an but quickly moving up to $15.00 if and only if they provide Disney quality customer service.