Big changes coming to FASTPASS in March

[flynnibus]

I'm sorry, judging by your response I seem to have hurt your feelings. Would a Dole whip make up for it? By the way, the Earth being round isn't a "conclusion that is trusted by most to be true". It's a proven fact, backed up by actual data. :king:

Hey genius.. we knew the world was round for centuries before anyone proved it by going around it or seeing it from space.

And just about every bit of knowledge about the solar system and beyond is accepted because of conclusive supporting data - not actual measurements.

For instance, we've never been to Jupiter, but we have 'facts' about what it's made of. And we've never actually seen a planet in the remote universes, but we know they exist because we can measure the variation in a star's visible energy from our perspective when the planet passes in front of it.

A cop doesn't measure how fast you are going by measuring how far you went over a period of time (the definition of velocity) - he knows your speed by measuring the Doppler effect of energy waves bouncing off your car. And that speed is accepted as 'fact' without actually measuring and calculating your velocity.

This is how science is actually done and smart people publish what you just blindly believe as 'facts' but you don't seem to comprehend how we decide what are facts or not and what should be considered believable or not.

 

[Skyway]

I'm not a math guy, so help me think this one out: How would FP be impacted if the "next FP available" time was extended? Instead of being able to get a new FP just as your current FP window opens, what if EVERYONE were forced to wait an hour or two after the window opens? (for example, at 10am I get a FP for BTMRR with a window of 2-3pm. My next opportunity to get a FP would not be until 4 or 5pm)

It seems that would immediately cut down on the number of FP's in the park. Fewer opportunities to obtain a FP means fewer people in the FP lines. Fewer people in the FP lines means the Standby line moves faster, getting things closer to life in the pre-FP days. (I also recall that in the early days of Universal's Express Pass, you really would only be able to get 2 or 3 passes a day, with huge gaps of time between the two).

By enforcing the return window and adding additional FP attractions (as it appears Disney is doing), guests would have more choices to strategize their FP use.

The knee-jerk reaction to such limits would probably be for most visitors to cash in their limited FP's at a headliner E-Tickets like Space Mtn. or ToT. But just like now, the slots will fill up quickly. So for most visitors, if you want to burn your FP on one of those E-tickets, you probably won't be able to get any more FP for the day.

In that scenario, the big E-Tickets could have slow Standby lines all day. But the trade off is that other FP attractions (like Peter Pan) will have quicker Standby lines.

A visitor could also decide to wait in the 90 minute Space Mtn. line in exchange for being able to get a few more FP's throughout the day for some of the smaller FP attractions.

At the end of the day, more visitors would have a chance to get a FP for something, while minimizing those commando visitors who snatch up FP's and deprive the uneducated or inexperienced from getting them. With fewer FP's in the system overall, more visitors will be forced to use the Standby lines.

With less demand on the FP lines, Disney could then add in the X-Passes. Although those will slow the Standby lines more, the impact would not be as bad as adding X-Passes under the current system .

That's my theory, anyway. Any holes in my math?

 

[flynnibus]

That's not quite true though (in my personal example). I was held for no reason, and by the time I had gone through, I actually could have been on on and off the ride

Not unless the load station was emptied or loading positions were empty. The people that were in front of you at the merge point still had to be processed through the ride. Unless those people were depleted, it doesn't matter if you waited right behind someone or 15ft behind them. You still have the same number of people in front of you and unless all those people got through the ride and left open spaces, there would have been no earlier opportunity for you to get on the ride then you did.

Only if they were sending ride vehicles out empty because there were no people queued up to load would waiting at merge impact your final wait.

I think in some attractions they intentionally try to keep the merge area clear so they hold standby back so they don't fill up all available space.

 

[draybook]

Hey genius.. we knew the world was round for centuries before anyone proved it by going around it or seeing it from space.

And just about every bit of knowledge about the solar system and beyond is accepted because of conclusive supporting data - not actual measurements.

For instance, we've never been to Jupiter, but we have 'facts' about what it's made of. And we've never actually seen a planet in the remote universes, but we know they exist because we can measure the variation in a star's visible energy from our perspective when the planet passes in front of it.

A cop doesn't measure how fast you are going by measuring how far you went over a period of time (the definition of velocity) - he knows your speed by measuring the Doppler effect of energy waves bouncing off your car. And that speed is accepted as 'fact' without actually measuring and calculating your velocity.

This is how science is actually done and smart people publish what you just blindly believe as 'facts' but you don't seem to comprehend how we decide what are facts or not and what should be considered believable or not.

Need a tissue?


Using radio waves to bounce off of a moving object and using that reading to calculate speed is much different than guessing that you know what times are on someones Fast Pass. Nice stretch though.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Does anyone else think that what all this whining and complaining is going to lead to is the elimination of free fast passes? I always saw fastpass as a privilege something extra nothing that I was entitled to have. Maybe having it as perk for deluxe resort guest or an extra you pay for may be a good move. I would pay for it.

No - percentage of whiners is very small in comparison to total usage.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm not a math guy, so help me think this one out: How would FP be impacted if the "next FP available" time was extended? Instead of being able to get a new FP just as your current FP window opens, what if EVERYONE were forced to wait an hour or two after the window opens? (for example, at 10am I get a FP for BTMRR with a window of 2-3pm. My next opportunity to get a FP would not be until 4 or 5pm)

It seems that would immediately cut down on the number of FP's in the park. Fewer opportunities to obtain a FP means fewer people in the FP lines. Fewer people in the FP lines means the Standby line moves faster, getting things closer to life in the pre-FP days. (I also recall that in the early days of Universal's Express Pass, you really would only be able to get 2 or 3 passes a day, with huge gaps of time between the two).

Well there are two things here. You say this will cut down on the number of FPs in the park. TRUE but you can also get similar net impacts if you just reduced the # of FPs distributed. The difference is who gets shafted more.

In a smaller # of FP scenario.. the eager beaver still comes out ahead because they still likely get all the FPs they get today. The disadvantaged crowd are those who are more casual to get FPs... as supply is more limited.

By increasing the time limit between FPs you can pickup.. you specifically target the people who maximize their FP quota. Casual FP people may have more free FPs available (but how significant that is, is hard to say without knowing how much contention there is today).. but they still need to seize the opportunity.

In either scenario, reducing the overall # of FPs distributed will reduce impact on lines - but does so by reducing how much people can use the system. Is that really an advantage? In effect, you are 'dialing down' the system rather than make it more compatible.

It may be a better strategy to instead make the system cause less of a disruption to stand-by (the same net effect you sought in the other scenario) without reducing how much people can benefit from the system. This is a 'win-win' scenario, and everyone benefits. That's why doing something like enforcing return times actually benefits both FP and standby users.

Alas here, it doesn't look like the change people have been begging Disney to do for years is motivated by efficiency, but rather compatibility and efficiency needed for it's new reservation system.

 

[TalkingHead]

DonaldDoleWhip,

How many more times are you going to refer to yourself as "scum of the earth, a cheater, an abuser, and/or equivalent to a child beater and murderer for what you've done with fastpass."

At this point, it sounds like you're the one keeping the hyperbole alive.

 

[flynnibus]

Need a tissue?


Using radio waves to bounce off of a moving object and using that reading to calculate speed is much different than guessing that you know what times are on someones Fast Pass. Nice stretch though.

It's not a stretch at all. What it proves is you are incapable of understanding 'how' something becomes accepted as fact or knowledge and can only accept conclusions from a source you blindly believe. It makes you incapable of discovery or critical thinking. Pretty much the limitations that allowed religion and aristocrats to control the uneducated for most of human kind.

and I guess it shows just how science and critical thinking is taught in most places

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

It's weird how the discussion makes it seem like most people are upset about the change, yet the # of people who agree with enforcement of the policy outnumbers them by more than a 2:1 margin.

 

[draybook]

It's not a stretch at all. What it proves is you are incapable of understanding 'how' something becomes accepted as fact or knowledge and can only accept conclusions from a source you blindly believe. It makes you incapable of discovery or critical thinking. Pretty much the limitations that allowed religion and aristocrats to control the uneducated for most of human kind.

and I guess it shows just how science and critical thinking is taught in most places

It's funny to see how worked up you get over such petty things. Dance puppet.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

DonaldDoleWhip,

How many more times are you going to refer to yourself as "scum of the earth, a cheater, an abuser, and/or equivalent to a child beater and murderer for what you've done with fastpass."

At this point, it sounds like you're the one keeping the hyperbole alive.

People keep either

a) Comparing late FP to doing something illegal
b) Saying that nobody said stuff like that

The fact is, people did say it in a very rude, insulting way. And nobody apologized for it.

 

[flynnibus]

What discussion? I accept that the policy is changing. I even tried to move the discussion forward several pages back by making a hypothesis about NextGen/X-pass/whatever. People just keep shrieking about rule-breaking and law-breaking and so on, and it's extremely annoying.

And fine. I'll admit it. I've used fastpasses late (ever since it was presented to me as a handy tip several years ago). I've even brought a water bottle into a movie theater. I'm a true delinquent. I still think the comparisons to murder and beating people are over the top, and I hope you'll agree with me on that.

I agree, but as another poster said - you seem to be the only one perpetuating these theories and comments. Search the thread for 'murder' and the relevant post by one user was over 400 posts ago, the rest are by you

Most of the 'rule breaker' posts are by a newbie to the thread coming by and posters like you jumping on them. You're perpetuating the very problem you are complaining about rather than seeing the post for what it is and letting it go.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

No - percentage of whiners is very small in comparison to total usage.

Then why is it such a big widespread 'problem' if it's barely anyone doing it?

Either the decision is solely about X-pass and money, or a lot more people are guilty of this than you've implied.

 

[flynnibus]

It's funny to see how worked up you get over such petty things. Dance puppet.

It's not me dancing - it's me shaking my head that such ignorance perpetuates in our society. Stupid and proud of it I guess.

 

[zweltar]

Agree, or you may want to come back when it's most convenient for you.

Good news! They already have that in the parks. It's called stand-by.:wave:

 

[Captain Chaos]

That's not quite true though (in my personal example). I was held for no reason, and by the time I had gone through, I actually could have been on on and off the ride. In the scheme of things it wasn't too significant, but I did have to wait longer, simply because the CM decided that she should wait for someone with a FP to come in. There was no reason to hold me. But what if it had been a significant number of FPs coming in? I would have been furious. It was bad enough that I had to wait one ride cycle because the CM nonsensically waited for a guest with a FP, but if I had to wait longer, you can bet that I would have been speaking with a manager. There was no reason to delay me when there was no one else in line (only a handful of peopla at load). I think this is where the real problems with FP lie: too many issued and too inconsistent a ratio to standby admissions, exacerbated by late returns.

I do single-rider, where the procedure seems to change depending on what CM is working. The five times I rode it, I only once had to wait for a single seat, the other four times the CMs sent me to the FP line.:shrug:

The bold is what happened to me as well, as I described before... I was held in the outside portion of the RNRC queue at the merge because the CM "had to let FP in first" and there were only 2 people during the entire time I had to wait coming up the FP line... They could have let standby in during that time, they didn't... And there was no reason for my delay either other than waiting for FP people... which, as I explained, were only 2 during a 20 minute wait period outside... Once inside, the queue was packed... And yes, this was with filling each coaster train...

 

[flynnibus]

Then why is it such a big widespread 'problem' if it's barely anyone doing it?

It's the catch - 22!

FP horders claim not a lot of people do it else Disney would have fixed it already..
Then when Disney fixes it.. they say how many people are going to get negatively affected

Or my favorite...
FP isn't understood by most people
yet they complain about how FP ruins standby lines because of FP holders in other lines

So which is it? Lots of FP users or not alot?

You see this constantly through FP pro/con threads.

My conclusion.. there are a lot of FP users because you see 'em in every queue... and for every person in the queue there are a lot more who are holding a FP waiting to come back. And it's not the same small group of people in every FP queue.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I agree, but as another poster said - you seem to be the only one perpetuating these theories and comments. Search the thread for 'murder' and the relevant post by one user was over 400 posts ago, the rest are by you

Most of the 'rule breaker' posts are by a newbie to the thread coming by and posters like you jumping on them. You're perpetuating the very problem you are complaining about rather than seeing the post for what it is and letting it go.

It's hard to let something go when it digs so deeply and seriously into your very character. Sure, it's easy to brush off a lot of what people say on the internet, but sometimes people go too far and it really stings.

People commit suicide over things like this, and I hate to say it, but a lot of people here seem like they couldn't care less about what type of effect they have on people. Clearly those comments disturbed me, but I guess it was worth it for those people to make a point about fastpass.

 

[draybook]

It's not me dancing - it's me shaking my head that such ignorance perpetuates in our society. Stupid and proud of it I guess.

My point is that whether you or I like it, you can't base an argument on whether or not it was late arrivals in that FP line unless you have proof. Otherwise it's just ASSuming. But it seems like that's how you like to do things, to assume.


But continue with the personal insults, I guess that's how you handle debates. To each their own....

 

[flynnibus]

The bold is what happened to me as well, as I described before... I was held in the outside portion of the RNRC queue at the merge because the CM "had to let FP in first" and there were only 2 people during the entire time I had to wait coming up the FP line... They could have let standby in during that time, they didn't... And there was no reason for my delay either other than waiting for FP people... which, as I explained, were only 2 during a 20 minute wait period outside... Once inside, the queue was packed... And yes, this was with filling each coaster train...

So 'once inside the queue was packed' - there obviously was no increase in wait for you. Just WHERE you waited. If the indoor queue was packed when you got there, obviously getting in there sooner would not have gotten you on the ride any sooner. The same people are already in front of you and there was no spot left open on the ride itself that you could have used (hence why people are still in line!).

I think what you saw is them holding merge back to ensure the indoor queue was at the level they want to maintain. They don't like standby backing up through the merge point.

Just because the CM explained the question he probably hears 500 times a day doesn't mean he was wrong, just wasn't specific to your exact concern. What he answered was true - but it didn't cause you extra wait because as you said, no to few FP people went in front of you.