News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[AEfx]

I genuinely ask - why is there such an attachment to the original EPCOT? I was a kid of the 80's and generally remember, and enjoyed EPCOT, but I also have clear vivid memories of how my parents viewed it as 'boring', 'repetitive', and 'didn't know what it was'. In fact, many people outside this forum had similar opinions of EPCOT. I understand the pain of how under appreciated EPCOT was, but in reality, what would be the motivation to return to the original concept?

You won't find support for that opinion much here, because the perceived nature of EPCOT is what captured the life-long love of Disney theme parks for many hard-core Disney fans. And the further and further we get away from it, the more rose colored those glasses get.

I'm in the middle - I certainly was entranced by EPCOT as a kid, but as an adult - I can more see it for what it was. And yes, truth be told - a lot of it was a beautifully crafted illusion that was incredibly effective in a much simpler time.

In the 1980's, we were still under the Jetson-like delusions of the future - where we were so close to flying cars, that by the end of the century we'd be taking trips to the moon like we take a trip, well, to WDW, that we were on the cusp of solving all of the world's problems to live as one harmonious species.

Those ideals are very, very tough things to give up. Technology certainly has progressed, but it's also opened up a world of information and justified cynicism, and mostly - I think people really want to return to that time more than anything else, because EPCOT represented those ideals that have now been reality-checked to death by all the information we now have access to, literally in the palms of our hands.

 

[trainplane3]

Agreed. I don't think Epcot Center folks want the return of actual, dated 80's Epcot Center, but exactly more of a "return to form" just like you described. This is a common misconception.

Double agreed. I know people don't like Nemo in the Seas, but it still hits on the major points of the pavilion (take care of the environment, life cycle of sea life, etc) and even saved it. So I kind of don't like it but at least the intention is there.

But when people ask me what park is my favorite (Epcot) and what rides there are and I only name 10 rides, 2 of which are thrilling (M:S, TT) and the others are just "nice" (I mean this in the best way possible!). I get blank stares of "Well what coasters are there? How fast is the ball ride? Do you go upside down?". It doesn't surprise me why we're getting a coaster. I want grand rides over short thrills in Epcot. Something that makes me go "Wow, no one else can do this!" and not Disaster Transport (look it up, somewhat fun story that relates to Disney) tier rides that eventually lose their effects and are ran until they feel like replacing it. I can drive 45 mins east and go to Kennywood or 3 hours tops and be at Cedar Point for my thrills.

 

[The Dean Finder]

Imagination did. Nine years ago. The weather pavilion could have been good too.

Are you going to include that pitch in one of your tributes?

 

[RSoxNo1]

For me, it is simple.

EPCOT was the only park I had been to as a kid (1986) as my father thought it was the only one worth seeing... He thought magic kingdom was for little kids and saw no value in it.

EPCOT inspired me in a way no other park did and reached into my youthful imagination and planted ideas that helped form the direction my life would take. Because of the Living Seas and Sea Base Alpha and seeing the diver in the tank and the concept of working /living under water in the ocean, I wanted and eventually learned to scuba dive. From there, when I was involved in Boy Scouts, I became involved with a group that went diving in the Florida Keys - where I learned about dive rescue (educational, not experiencing) and diving and hyperbaric medicine. In my professional life, I became involved in clinical hyperbaric medicine and equipment design, manufacture, installation and the training of people on the physics and physiology of diving and Hyperbarics.

My brother, 3 yes younger than me credits his experience that day at EPCOT with wanting to become an engineer and be involved in the future design of stuff he saw at Epcot - wither spaceship earth, horizons, or any of the other rides. He is now an electrical engineer and designs power and electrical layouts for research labs for major pharmaceutical companies.

At the time, neither of us thought about international travel or ever going outside the country (except to maybe Mexico or Canada), but my father had traveled extensively on business for his company and felt world showcase was a good and easy way for us to get the understanding that not all countries are like America and to appreciate and respect other cultures and that what makes us different can be A Good Thing- especially as America is a melting pot of many cultures.

When my niece went for the first time and saw rafiki's planet watch and the vets caring for the animals, and one of the staff (who a CM told she was interesting in being a vet) took time to come out and talk to her about what being a vet is like for her (the CM), it was the deciding factor. My niece became and remains 100% certain she wants to become a veterinarian herself.

The Land also gave us an appreciation of how special this planet is and our responsibility as its stewards to take care of it (a concept further ingrained in us in Scouting).

That is why I would rather see the edutainment version of EPCOT than another IP driven thrill ride park with no coalescing theme to hold it together. I hope that when my younger kids visit EPCOT next year, they can still be inspired...

Are you Peter Quill?

 

[Casper Gutman]

I genuinely ask - why is there such an attachment to the original EPCOT? I was a kid of the 80's and generally remember, and enjoyed EPCOT, but I also have clear vivid memories of how my parents viewed it as 'boring', 'repetitive', and 'didn't know what it was'. In fact, many people outside this forum had similar opinions of EPCOT. I understand the pain of how under appreciated EPCOT was, but in reality, what would be the motivation to return to the original concept?

A lot of people have given very good answers to this. For many, EPCOT was the purest distillation of Walt's particular vision of society, technology, and the future, and whether you agreed with it or not, it lent the park a cohesiveness, unity, and kind of optimism that could be found in DL but was lacking everywhere else, even in WDW's MK. It was totally unique - no other company would ever attempt something like EPCOT.

For me, personally, it was the pinnacle of the art of the dark ride. I have tried to put into words why the epic, AA-filled attractions appealed to me so strongly, and I always come up short. Their was a grandeur in their scope, their sheer length, the depth and detail of the scenes. The rides were not only about human mastery of technology, they stood as physical monuments to that mastery, immersing riders in it. It was like "riding the movies" in a more profound way then any of the Uni or WDW rides that claim that phrase - a full immersion in a carefully constructed space. There was wit in WoM that exists nowhere else outside of DL's PoC, whimsy in Imagination that was totally unique. The rides were accomplished works of art that no theme park ride built since, with the possible exceptions of ToT and GMR, could match. All these random thoughts, and I still can't accurately express why the park moved me so profoundly.

Imagination and WoM should never have closed, but they're gone. The ethos of the original EPCOT will never return. But it would be nice if the park had SOME guiding vision, something to say about humanity and the future. At this point, that's the best I can hope for.

 

[DisneyNerd12]

I know this has noting to do with future world but I just wanna post this. I got a short survey after I came from epcot in my email.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I know this has noting to do with future world but I just wanna post this. I got a short survey after I came from epcot in my email.

I imagine they're going to get a lot of "Strongly Agrees" to that question on Saturday's during Food and Wine.

 

[doctornick]

Double agreed. I know people don't like Nemo in the Seas, but it still hits on the major points of the pavilion (take care of the environment, life cycle of sea life, etc) and even saved it. So I kind of don't like it but at least the intention is there.

But when people ask me what park is my favorite (Epcot) and what rides there are and I only name 10 rides, 2 of which are thrilling (M:S, TT) and the others are just "nice" (I mean this in the best way possible!). I get blank stares of "Well what coasters are there? How fast is the ball ride? Do you go upside down?". It doesn't surprise me why we're getting a coaster. I want grand rides over short thrills in Epcot. Something that makes me go "Wow, no one else can do this!" and not Disaster Transport (look it up, somewhat fun story that relates to Disney) tier rides that eventually lose their effects and are ran until they feel like replacing it. I can drive 45 mins east and go to Kennywood or 3 hours tops and be at Cedar Point for my thrills.

All parks needs a good balance of different experiences and Epcot is no exception. I like many loved classic EPCOT Center, but the balance on the park was way off with too many experiences that had "sameness" -- that's great if you were someone who loved them, but was a turnoff to many others. Part of the whole "appealing to everyone in the family" concept that lead Walt to create DL was having something for everyone.

Point being that a few thrilling rides in the park would be a good thing. Both Test Track and Soarin' add some level of thrill (yes, quite modest in the latter's case) while still fitting in with the nature of the park. An actual roller coaster being added for higher thrills isn't in and of itself a bad thing. You can add that while still maintaining other experiences that are inspirational and/or edutainment oriented.

(Whether the GotG is the right theme is another topic, but there's no reason a roller coaster couldn't fit even with the ideals of classic EPCOT).

 

[GCTales]

Are you Peter Quill?

Nah.... I'm Mary Poppins y'all!

 

[OvertheHorizon]

Just speaking personally, I found the original Epcot inspiring. Nothing was cookie cutter. Nothing was simply a rehash of a movie with familiar characters. It invited you as the guest to impart your own stories into the attractions. When I rode Horizons, I imagined what my life would be like on Brava Centauri. When I explored the Living Seas, I imagined what it would be like to swim with dolphins or really be an undersea explorer. In Spaceship Earth, I actually thought about the future of communication. Etc. Etc. Etc. Very little was dumbed-down. Not to mention World Showcase giving me a glimpse of life in other cultures that I could one day grow up and hope to explore on my own.

Simply put, the park and its attractions stayed with you. They didn't just whip and thrill you around for 3 minutes and then usher you into the next closest queue line. It caused you (well, me at least) to slow down and really soak in all that was being offered me. The attention to detail was staggering as well as the music being a perfect compliment (I have most of the pavilion soundtracks and you BET I still listen to them on the regular).

It asked something of its audience. Not that you simply just have fun, but that you open your mind slightly to perhaps even learn something along the way.

I felt the exact same way.

 

[bclane]

Nah.... I'm Mary Poppins y'all!

Hey Yondu!

 

[GCTales]

Hey Yondu!

better than being atrash panda

 

[bclane]

better than being atrash panda

Yeah that's so much worse!

 

[crxbrett]

I genuinely ask - why is there such an attachment to the original EPCOT? I was a kid of the 80's and generally remember, and enjoyed EPCOT, but I also have clear vivid memories of how my parents viewed it as 'boring', 'repetitive', and 'didn't know what it was'. In fact, many people outside this forum had similar opinions of EPCOT. I understand the pain of how under appreciated EPCOT was, but in reality, what would be the motivation to return to the original concept?

I would say for a few reasons. One, old EPCOT seemed to encapsulate more of the original idea and inspiration for Walt's ideas for the future and idea of EPCOT. Two, the scope and amazing attention to detail in the older pavilions and attractions was nothing short of awesome. I don't see anywhere near that level of craftsmanship or storytelling in any of the new Epcot attractions. Three, I think the old EPCOT was a great blend of edutainment - it was able to educate and entertain equally. The new Epcot fails to do that on a lot of levels. Intentionally or not.

Those Imagineers really blew the socks off people with the original EPCOT pavilions. They should be proud of their work and while those accomplishments are no longer there. They will always be remembered by folks who appreciated them and got to experience them firsthand.

I actually find Future World today to be pretty bland and boring compared to what it was or used to be. Thrill rides are fun...but they get old after a while. I just returned from a visit to WDW and while there, guess how many times I went on Test Track? Once. Soarin'? Once. I did go on Mission Space three times, Orange twice and Green once. But I actually went on Spaceship Earth 4 times and Living with the Land 3 times! If Horizons, UoE or WoM were still there I more than likely would have done all of them 2 or 3 times. The new Epcot attractions are just kind of...meh. They don't have the spark or creativity that the old pavilions had. Heck, even Magic Journeys and Captain EO were light years better than HISTA or the lame Pixar thing that's there now.

 

[ChrisFL]

Honestly, if you're just going casually to EPCOT in its prime and you ride Spaceship Earth, then World of Motion, then Horizons, then Universe of Energy, then Imagination....you may start to get the sense of sameness, I understand it now even though I didn't back then. All of them were slow moving dark rides that moved by animatronic scenes to tell a story.

I agree with the idea that not everyone was enthralled or followed why it was important or inspiring to others, especially if the park wasn't busy and you found yourself going through all of them very quickly...you may forget which were in which ride.

Even I, being there many times as a kid, would sometimes confuse which scenes were in World of Motion and which scenes were in Spaceship Earth.

 

[willtravel]

I think it is an end to a era. You can see it happening throughout WDW. So far MK is pretty safe but give it time. JMO

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Honestly, if you're just going casually to EPCOT in its prime and you ride Spaceship Earth, then World of Motion, then Horizons, then Universe of Energy, then Imagination....you may start to get the sense of sameness, I understand it now even though I didn't back then. All of them were slow moving dark rides that moved by animatronic scenes to tell a story.

I agree with the idea that not everyone was enthralled or followed why it was important or inspiring to others, especially if the park wasn't busy and you found yourself going through all of them very quickly...you may forget which were in which ride.

Even I, being there many times as a kid, would sometimes confuse which scenes were in World of Motion and which scenes were in Spaceship Earth.

That is a fair criticism. The music set it apart for me (along with tone generally). But, I see the point. I do think that they now went too far, though.

In some ways, MK has the same issue but got better attention. If you look at their key line up of the same era (approximately):
-3 boat rides (JC, Pirates, IASW- with no external movie tie in)
-2 omnimover rides (Mansion and IYHW/IYCF - with no external movie tie in)
-4 movie dark rides (PPF, SWSA, MTWR and 20kL)
-2 circle vision-type attractions (the main theater and MtM)
-4 animatronic shows (CoP, TIKI, CBJ, HoP)
-3 spinner rides (MTP, Dumbo and Jets)
(Plus rides like the railway, speedway, peoplemover, Swiss Family Robinson, shooting gallery, carousel, etc.)

Admittedly, the themes are a lot more separated for MK than original EPCOT Center. But, it shows how the balance works well if it's done properly - especially where the missing items compared to EPCOT Center are often smaller B and C ticket attractions.

I'll leave aside that many of MK's attractions were (and remain) without a movie tie in... a couple of which spanwed a movie themselves (for better or worse).

 

[montyz81]

That is a fair criticism. The music set it apart for me (along with tone generally). But, I see the point. I do think that they now went too far, though.

In some ways, MK has the same issue but got better attention. If you look at their key line up of the same era (approximately):
-3 boat rides (JC, Pirates, IASW- with no external movie tie in)
-2 omnimover rides (Mansion and IYHW/IYCF - with no external movie tie in)
-4 movie dark rides (PPF, SWSA, MTWR and 20kL)
-2 circle vision-type attractions (the main theater and MtM)
-4 animatronic shows (CoP, TIKI, CBJ, HoP)
-3 spinner rides (MTP, Dumbo and Jets)
(Plus rides like the railway, speedway, peoplemover, Swiss Family Robinson, shooting gallery, carousel, etc.)

Admittedly, the themes are a lot more separated for MK than original EPCOT Center. But, it shows how the balance works well if it's done properly - especially where the missing items compared to EPCOT Center are often smaller B and C ticket attractions.

I'll leave aside that many of MK's attractions were (and remain) without a movie tie in... a couple of which spanwed a movie themselves (for better or worse).

You forgot 20K.

 

[FLDIS86]

I don't post often so apologies if this has already been brought up. So I was watching the end of Wall-E and was curious to think what if imagineers include Wall-E into Future World at Epcot? Pick up from where the film left off where they come back to Earth and "clean-up" which is the whole message The Land gives us, agriculture, health and sustainability. What if Wall-E was the center piece of Future World and Mission to Mars ride and the newly announced space restaurant was all part of that world? Wall-E and Eve could fly by in space in the restaurant, etc. What do you all think?

 

[bclane]

I don't post often so apologies if this has already been brought up. So I was watching the end of Wall-E and was curious to think what if imagineers include Wall-E into Future World at Epcot? Pick up from where the film left off where they come back to Earth and "clean-up" which is the whole message The Land gives us, agriculture, health and sustainability. What if Wall-E was the center piece of Future World and Mission to Mars ride and the newly announced space restaurant was all part of that world? Wall-E and Eve could fly by in space in the restaurant, etc. What do you all think?

I like it...except I wanna fly with Wall-E and Eve and not just watch them fly by. lol!

I was thinking a great idea for the restaurant would be to make it a traveling space/cruise ship. On the screens, we would see scenes of us traveling through our solar system and beyond. We could also visit scenes from Wall-E, the Black Hole, Star Wars planets etc, all mixed in with more real world locations.