Back in the day...

[copcarguyp71]

Big difference was as a Kid... did not have to pay for it.

But for real.. I will say, I do hear about lack of upkeep over the years BUT... in almost every photo I have, there is some chip in the paint or some other issue. The pics I am talking about span from early 70's all the way to recent.

Has Disney really slipped or are we just spending more time looking for imperfections with the help of Disney sites?

I thought the same thing but actually noticed some things not really commonly noticed or mentioned during our last trip but when I brought them up on the forums after our return others chimed in that they also had noticed these things but had not said anything either. I am sure some things are attributable to the internet generation but all-in-all I think there is enough basis in fact that there is proof of degradation of value for the dollar.

 

[Figaro928]

But seriously, WDW was better back then for the same reasons we look back and say "my neighborhood was better back then" or "Kids were better back then" or "toys were better back then" or "music was better back then" or "society was better back then".

Also it's in total reference to when YOUR back then was. Mine was in the early 90's because I was 10 years old in 1992 and it ruled. so yeah...my neighborhood, friends, toys, music, society AND WDW all hit their peak BACK THEN. And i'm positive people older than me thought that everything in 1982 was much better then 1992.

 

[copcarguyp71]

But seriously, WDW was better back then for the same reasons we look back and say "my neighborhood was better back then" or "Kids were better back then" or "toys were better back then" or "music was better back then" or "society was better back then".

Also it's in total reference to when YOUR back then was. Mine was in the early 90's because I was 10 years old in 1992 and it ruled. so yeah...my neighborhood, friends, toys, music, society AND WDW all hit their peak BACK THEN. And i'm positive people older than me thought that everything in 1982 was much better then 1992.

Well...buildings, pavilions and attractions were open BACK THEN, crowds were less BACK THEN and fountains were all turned on BACK THEN so I do not believe this can all be in our heads...although I am sure a good bit of it comes from waxing nostalgic there is basis in fact as well IMO.

 

[AngieTink27]

Much has to do with the internet and how you hear a wider variety of plus and minuses about WDW today. People pay alot more to enter the gates today and are expecting more for their high dollar vacation. Michael Eisner ahd his Disney decade of the nineties spoiled many of us into expecting major new attractions and new parks every so many years. It was fun while it lasted during that time having DHS open in 1989 and DAK open not even ten years later, with all those impressive e-tickets thrown in between. But it cannot always be like that even though many of us expect it can. I am happy with the way Disney is today but like most things there is always room for improvement.

 

[Figaro928]

Well...buildings, pavilions and attractions were open BACK THEN, crowds were less BACK THEN and fountains were all turned on BACK THEN so I do not believe this can all be in our heads...although I am sure a good bit of it comes from waxing nostalgic there is basis in fact as well IMO.

yes... and trust me, I'm just playing devil's advocate BUT there was less thrilling attractions, no festivals, less dining options etc etc. One day some day soon now will be "back then" and all the ten year olds will be blogging about how horrible it will be when Stitch will be replace with God knows whats....

My mom thinks it's hilarious because I now say that Epcot is my favorite park (from the past and the present) But she remembers dragging me there because "ugg it was the boring learning park!"

 

[Clamman73]

 

[75disney]

One of my strongest memories was sitting at home, pouring over the park maps. I liked planning what I wanted to do, even then. Was I a weird, obsessive kid, or did anyone else do that?

I had maps from around 1979, and several from the 80s for both MK and Epcot. Someday I need to comb through my Mom's garage. I'll bet they're still in there somewhere, wrinked and dog-eared beyond recognition.

I admit. I did that too. In the early days, the bus and boat routes were based on color. I even memorized which color route went to which park/ hotel.

One day before our trip last year, I walked into my DD's (age 8) room and she had her Disney park maps spread out around her. I asked her what she was doing. She replied, "Planning which rides we are going to do." I was never so proud of her than I was at that moment.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

View attachment 50323

1983: "If you can dream it, then we can do it. Yes we can, yes we can."

2014: "If you feel like you are going to vomit, there's a trash can located right outside the ride vehicle."

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Theres some poor excuses being made on behalf of the corporate monster. Such loyalty.

 

[Walt is angry]

This is a really tough question actually. Oldsters, like me, can be all crumudgenly and condescending and quote all of Walt's great ideals. But the younger gen doesn't get Walt or his ideals in the least, much less believe in them, so it's kind of an intellectual standoff.

Clearly the standards of society and their expectations have declined (with the mass marketing of everything, look at the Kardashians success) and the ideals of the past have become passé (at the best).

Older fans need to realize the idealism we felt and Walt seemed to stand for, is no longer relevant whether we like it or not. Younger fans need to try to accept the reality of the platform that quality and QUALITY only was once the epitome of consumerism in America.

Economics were always a huge part of the equation, although a big difference between then and now exists. Walt always wanted to be the best at any cost. Walt always knew that quality would always be profitable. But with the advance of the Wall St. / quarterly result business model (thanks President Reagan) the rules are now different and the business plans of one era is no longer applicable to a publicly traded company in the 21st century.

The sole hope for a company like Disney is to at some point, install a CEO with an appreciation for imagination and quality, who can install a BOD of like minded individuals to fulfill his wishes of quality, with a mind for a continuing profitable future (like Steve Jobs would have been and maybe John Lassiter could be).

Otherwise, Disney will continue to succeed based mostly on ancient ideals (pixie dust) marketed by state of the art PR's, with little or no incentive to be really imaginative (vs. Really profitable). Meanwhile, Universal can continue to bridge the gap between imagination and profitability because they still have a point to prove, a mountain to climb ... To catch Disney...

Universal will never be able to bottle the magic that Walt provided for Disney but as the line between a perceived magic and actual quality offerings get blurred (FLE and HP, for example), Disney's product and viability is reduced (and the current crowds and success of Disney 2014 is absolutely irrelevant going forward).

Disney can choose to live off of its past but if it fails to embrace the tentants of their past, they will at some point in time become absolutely no different than Walmart. This generation may not see it but the next one will.

 

[EOD K9]

This is a really tough question actually. Oldsters, like me, can be all crumudgenly and condescending and quote all of Walt's great ideals. But the younger gen doesn't get Walt or his ideals in the least, much less believe in them, so it's kind of an intellectual standoff.
.

I've been going since the early 80's and then as an adult every year and sometimes twice since 97 so I joke when say this.......
Who is this "Walt" person you all speak of?

 

[Kissarmy11]

It may be pixie dust but my earliest memories of Disney was on Sunday nights when the Wonderful World of Disney splashed across our black and white TV. In the intro they showed a little girl snacking on something delicious looking standing beside the teacups. I was absolutely mesmerized by this image. There was a place like this in the world! I told my parents how much wanted to go there and they just laughed and said dream on! Well I did! It only took about 20 years but I got that dream! Took DH, DD and DS on several more of those disney dream ons!

 

[AngieTink27]

But the younger gen doesn't get Walt or his ideals in the least, much less believe in them, so it's kind of an intellectual standoff.

This is overgeneralized and simply not true for many of the younger fans. Sure for some they may not care, but it is their loss to not appreciate the person and principle behind the foundation of the parks. But there are many of us who see Walts influence in many of the rides and attractions we experience, and know certain things do not live up to his standard ---SGE---. Several of my close friends are former Disney CPs and a couple still are. You should hear them compare certain things with how Walt would think or what is not up to par with Walts ideas of quality. For many he is a idol in the industry and will always pattern their opinions around what lives up to the WDW name and what is subpar.

 

[Walt is angry]

This is overgeneralized and simply not true for many of the younger fans. Sure for some they may not care, but it is their loss to not appreciate the person and principle behind the foundation of the parks. But there are many of us who see Walts influence in many of the rides and attractions we experience, and know certain things do not live up to his standard ---SGE---. Several of my close friends are former Disney CPs and a couple still are. You should hear them compare certain things with how Walt would think or what is not up to par with Walts ideas of quality. For many he is a idol in the industry and will always pattern their opinions around what lives up to the WDW name and what is subpar.

Certainly it was a generalization but how else do I address such a broad subject? To be sure there are some "youngsters" who have studied and get Walt but can you honestly tell me, based on the general comments on these boards, that anywhere near a majority get that?

Certainly the gist of what I wrote is understandable without dismissing it as over blown hyperbole, isn't it? The point of the thread is discussion and learning I would hope and believe me, even at my age I learn something (happily) almost everyday.

 

[AllydoesDisney]

I went to Disney once when I was six and I didn't appreciate it. I didn't go back again until I was about 12. No. I didn't experience Disney in the 70s or 80s because I wasn't alive. I may have missed something special but I have such a major appreciation for it now at 22 that I don't waste my time thinking about what's wrong with it.

 

[Walt is angry]

I went to Disney once when I was six and I didn't appreciate it. I didn't go back again until I was about 12. No. I didn't experience Disney in the 70s or 80s because I wasn't alive. I may have missed something special but I have such a major appreciation for it now at 22 that I don't waste my time thinking about what's wrong with it.

And I can have absolutely no disagreement with you. You either accept my comments, reject them or are indifferent to them for your own reasons. You will appreciate disney or reject them within your own realm ... Coming from your vantage point I would also would hope you hold no deep seeded misplaced bias against Universal as well. Is that correct?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The second level of Plume et Palette in France (1983 photo)

Looking up to the second level of Plume et Palette (2011 photo)

When Epcot Center opened, Plume et Palette—which translates to “pen and (artist’s) palette”—was a two-level store selling books, art, and French mementos. Guests could take a narrow stairway to the second floor to enjoy (and buy) the art hanging on walls. The store was dominated by a large Art Nouveau skylight.

The store is still called Plume et Palette, but it now sells fragrances and cosmetics. The stairway is still there, but it’s now for cast members only. Guests can’t go to the second level, even if they ask nicely.
http://www.yesterland.com/wsthennow3.html


One could see art in WS. Admire the architecture. Buy books.
Now you are herded like cattle from food stall to merch shop.

 

[Matt_Black]

Part of it is human nature; everyone likes to think things were so much better back then but, as Ben Franklin says in the American Adventure, "The Golden Age was never the present age."

Another part is the Internet Echo Chamber effect. Forums, such as this one, are a font of hyperbole and ranting so repetitive that you lose perspective. For example, on Facebook or wherever, you'll often see "Recent President X was the worst president ever", and if you've studied history AT ALL, you'll know that's absolute nonsense, as James Buchanan is probably the worst because, you know, the South seceding and all that.

 

[copcarguyp71]

Part of it is human nature; everyone likes to think things were so much better back then but, as Ben Franklin says in the American Adventure, "The Golden Age was never the present age."

Another part is the Internet Echo Chamber effect. Forums, such as this one, are a font of hyperbole and ranting so repetitive that you lose perspective. For example, on Facebook or wherever, you'll often see "Recent President X was the worst president ever", and if you've studied history AT ALL, you'll know that's absolute nonsense, as James Buchanan is probably the worst because, you know, the South seceding and all that.

Yes....and of course none of this is true right? Just internet hyperbole?

- Dedication to guest satisfaction
- No closed down buildings
- Regular major attraction refurbs
- Less crowds (sign of the times I suppose)
- All effects working 100%
- No emphasis on DVC (actually no DVC)
- Cast members paid for and encouraged to share/foster the magic
- MUCH less emphasis on stockholder satisfaction over guest satisfaction
- Less Moichandising/Whimsy taking precedence over product sales
- No alcohol in parks (sorry, I enjoy a beer or ultimate margarita as much..maybe more than the next guy but it is true)
- No overlays...original and groundbreaking ideas everywhere. Imagineers running rampant (YAY!)
- No DDP...we DO IN FACT take advantage of it but nonetheless it has been the #1 reason for decline in dining quality IMO.

I gave myself a five minute limit on this response....there you have it.

OK...I am going back on my word...
- No 180 Day ADR's
- No crane 3 months out of the year in every dang picture of the castle

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Yes....and of course none of this is true right? Just internet hyperbole?

Its on the t'internet so its a FACT (capitalised to indicate that it is beyond contestation)

Hyperbole must be word of the day.

I would suggest that rather than the effect of nostalgia laden clichés, that many of the faults discussed ad nauseam are the result of the penurious attitude of those charged with the custody of WDW presently.