Avatar 2 and 3 Delayed??? The Effect on Avatarland at WDW...

[ctxak98]

Can't talk like this...

Disney don't cater to the rabid, foaming at the mouth Disney online fanboy... They cater to the general public... and numbers don't lie... The general public ate up Avatar in record numbers...

And no, we cannot say Avatar 2 will be a wild success, nor can we say it will be an utter bomb... Especially since the movie hasn't even been put into production yet...

Here is another argument I really have to laugh at... People love to mock Disney for being to childish... People want to mock those who think Disney is too childish.. People want to mock Disney for focusing on attractions geared to family and kids and not the teen or adult market... And yet, what to the haters base part of their argument on??? KIDS NOT DRESSING UP ON HALLOWEEN AS A CHARACTER FROM AVATAR... So, what is it?? Want Disney to cater to just a kids market or do you want Disney to try to appeal to a broader market???

And for those who said NO ONE dressed as any Avatar character for Halloween, speak to these people:

I was just defending when I said I know many younger people like this movie!? did I say something wrong?

 

[Captain Chaos]

I was just defending when I said I know many younger people like this movie!? did I say something wrong?

Absolutely not... I was being sarcastic... I guess it got lost in translation LOL... I agree with you on this subject LOL.

 

[WDWGoof07]

Last major addition 2006. 6 years ago. No logical person can say that a theme park with five rides and that closes at 5pm doesn't need more. So do I want another Chester and Hester's Dinorama? Of course not. You can't honestly believe that the Type A James Cameron would allow that.

The source material being lousy is purely an opinion. As would be that Avatar is the greatest franchise ever.

The blatant condemnation is what I object to.

Your opinion the source material is lousy... The rejection of Avatar is a handful of foaming at the mouth Disney fanboys who didn't like the movie and are seeing their dream of Beastly Kingdom die before their eyes, even though it's been dead since the park opened... And you have no idea if the new land will be good or not... And what you think is good is different than what someone else will think is good... Just because you didn't think Avatar was good or won't make a good addition, doesn't make it so... IF this land gets built (and with Disney you always have to say IF), then stay away if you don't like it... No one says you HAVE TO visit the land or DAK for that matter... Disney will not miss you since 9 - 10 million other people will flow through the gates...

I say that your judgment of Avatar as Disney-theme-park-worthy source material is merely opinion, too. Of course, DAK needs expansion, but I don't have to be satisfied with one concept over another just because one is based on a movie that made a lot of money.

No, people reject it because they don't like Avatar. Nobody would wistfully bring up Beastly Kingdom or Mysterious Island if this new concept was something else that people could get excited for.

And, dxer07002, I'm certainly not foaming at the mouth, and your attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with you is fallacious reasoning. You're right, I don't have to visit Avatar Land if I don't want to. I also don't have to put my tail between my legs and keep my objections to myself just to avoid upsetting anyone.

 

[Timekeeper]

The Halloween "costume" consideration is a bit silly because the Avatar costumes are, well, not for everyone.

Harry Potter costumes are easy; anyone can throw on a covers-90-percent-of-the-body-with-loosely-draped-fabric robe. The Avatar costumes, however, are pretty risque (at least that is how they are portrayed in the films), and not everyone (man or woman) has the body and/or self esteem to and/or personality type to throw on a leaves-nothing-to-the-imagination-painted-on costume. Most women don't look like Rebecca Romijn, and most women would never go out painted like Mystique. :lookaroun

Edit: Not to mention that an Avatar character takes A TON of work compared to throwing on a robe and grabbing a wand.

In fact, I'm sure many of us have seem some wizards in training or storm troopers on Halloween that we would actually prefer to not see in an Avatar costume. :hurl:

 

[Captain Chaos]

I say that your judgment of Avatar as Disney-theme-park-worthy source material is merely opinion, too. Of course, DAK needs expansion, but I don't have to be satisfied with one concept over another just because one is based on a movie that made a lot of money.

No, people reject it because they don't like Avatar. Nobody would wistfully bring up Beastly Kingdom or Mysterious Island if this new concept was something else that people could get excited for.

And, dxer07002, I'm certainly not foaming at the mouth, and your attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees with you is fallacious reasoning. You're right, I don't have to visit Avatar Land if I don't want to. I also don't have to put my tail between my legs and keep my objections to myself just to avoid upsetting anyone.

You are right, it is an opinion... I never said or stated it as a fact... I have $2.7 billion dollars in business and over 10 million DVD units sold to tell you that people DID and DO like Avatar... again, it is a handful of Disney online fanboys that don't like this move because their Beastly Kingdom/Mysterious Island dreams are being ripped away... And I am not trying to discredit anyone... It is really the truth... Only the fanboys are bashing the decision, and most are trying to state their opinion as fact, talk for EVERYONE in the world, and try to discredit the real facts as the facts stand today... Based solely on??? Their hated for the movie...

Honestly, I don't care one way or the other if Avatar ever gets built... I think it would be a great addition, and a welcomed one, in DAK... But if it didn't come, I wouldn't stop going to DAK... I love the theme park... And even if Avatarland is replaced by something I don't care for, I wouldn't stop going to DAK like some people in this thread have said they would do (which in my opinion in an immature reaction but whatever)... But hey, if people on here are so against Avatarland coming to DAK, then that is 10 less people on line in front of me and rest of the general public will will go and enjoy the land and attraction Disney gives to us...

 

[Captain Chaos]

The Halloween "costume" consideration is a bit silly because the Avatar costumes are, well, not for everyone.

Harry Potter costumes are easy; anyone can throw on a covers-90-percent-of-the-body-with-loosely-draped-fabric robe. The Avatar costumes, however, are pretty risque (at least that is how they are portrayed in the films), and not everyone (man or woman) has the body and/or self esteem to and/or personality type to throw on a leaves-nothing-to-the-imagination-painted-on costume. Most women don't look like Rebecca Romijn, and most women would never go out painted like Mystique. :lookaroun

Edit: Not to mention that an Avatar character takes A TON of work compared to throwing on a robe and grabbing a wand.

In fact, I'm sure many of us have seem some wizards in training or storm troopers on Halloween that we would actually prefer to not see in an Avatar costume. :hurl:

It is silly, but read back... That is an argument people are trying to make for Avatarland being a bad choice...

 

[wickedsoccer22]

I am not saying that people will not visit Avatarland. There are probably thousands of people who will make a trip to WDW just to go to it.

However, even thought it grossed however millions of dollars, I don't see the non-avatar fan making a trip to DAK just to visit Avatarland. I mean I could be completly wrong, but I don't see it being the huge draw as what Potter is, and I think there are plenty of other Disney fans and Disney execs, who think the same.

In my opinion, it would be better for Disney to go back to the drawing board and look at the Beastly Kingdom idea again.

So you're saying if Disney and James Cameron design a ride that everyone starts talking about (like Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey, Mission Space, Soarin', etc) people won't come? :lol:

If Disney designs the land correctly, it won't matter how successful the next two films are because the theme park will have a fantastic addition. For those who argue that Avatarland is a bad idea because it won't sell merchandise, please explain to me how much merchandise the Beastly Kingdom would have sold?

 

[Timekeeper]

It is silly, but read back... That [lack of popularity as a Halloween costume choice] is an argument people are trying to make for Avatarland being a bad choice...

Yes, I know. That's why I said it was silly to suggest that the lack of seeing people dressed up as characters from Avatar is in anyway indicative of some alleged lack of popularity or acceptance. I'm agreeing with you, for the reasons I gave (individual personalities, style of costume, difficulty in preparation, etc.)

 

[Timekeeper]

And about the Halloween costumes....Where there's a will, there's a way. If kids wanted badly enough to be Neytiri or some male Na'vi (can't remember the names off the top of my head...shows how memorable they are), a full body suit kind of like pajamas could have been made up by parents, if one hadn't been manufactured. Then again, I think the market would have anticipated the demand for Avatar costumes had there been any. Painting your body is not the only way to dress up as a Na'vi.

Kids? You do realize that this was not a "kids" film, right? After all, it was rated PG-13 by the MPAA ("for intense epic battle sequences and warfare, sensuality, language and some smoking"). I don't recall seeing too many kids in line at the movie theaters waiting for the next showing. To the contrary, the film seemed to appeal to a more mature crowd.

And one's failure to be able to recall something that is complex and unique (such as a character's name that's not common to our dialect) probably speaks more about the capacity of the individual than the "memorability" of the thing forgotten.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Yet, in trying to make a case that you are not using specious reasoning, you do exactly that, not that I believe you're acting maliciously and doing it deliberately.

For someone so concerned with facts, I noticed that you didn't care to respond to this post questioning the longevity of the franchise.

I have already addressed longevity: I said, no one knows... And what facts does AEfx point out that hasn't already been argued for or against??? His post was well written, kudos... But facts are still facts and fact is, we don't know the longevity of Avatar...

Avatar 2 could be released in 2014, 15 or 16 and utterly bomb causing Avatar 3 to be cancelled or fail even worse... OR Avatar 2 could succeed even more than the first Avatar leading Avatar 3 to do even more business that the first two... Everything is hypothetical... No one can see 5 years or more into the future... And if we want to say how relevant it is in the present, well, Avatar has its fanbase... How large it is, I cannot tell you since there really isn't much outlet... There are fansites (none of which I ever visit, just have gone to them to check them out and see if they exist, and they do) and there are groups that actually do Avatar meets (again, I have no interest in anything like that so I cannot tell you how well attended they are)... Are they on the scale of Harry Potter and Star Wars, probably not... Potter has been around for what, 10 years already and Star Wars for 35??? So they have been entrenched in society already... Avatar is 2 years old, still getting its footing.. Where it goes from here is anyone's guess... I am sure no one sat around in 1977 and said WOW THIS STAR WARS IS GOING TO BE AROUND 35 YEARS LATER... I'm sure Star Wars has succeeded beyond everyone's wildest dreams (other than Lucas')... I'm sure Harry Potter has succeeded beyond JK Rowlings wildest dreams... The taste of the populance is fickle... We cannot sit here and say Avatar will still be around 30 years from now just like we can't say it won't be... No one knows...

Someone had posted in one of the other Avatar threads that people who say the movie actually fell into a depression because they couldn't visit or live on Pandora... While that is extreme and plays into the psyche of these people, it is also something that happened... I'd also have to question the psyche of an adult who walked out of Harry Potter or Star Wars wanting to be Harry, Ron or Hermoine, Luke, Leia or Han... Now kids on the other hand, OK cause what kid never pretends to be or wants to be their favorite characters??? I'm sure when you were a kid you did the same thing...

So, while you, Goof, may not like the idea of Avatar coming for reasons other than you hated the movie, there are others who don't want Avatar in DAK simply because they hated the movie...

 

[timeman]

I like how people throw the numbers out there to prove that Avatar was successful, but those numbers don't mean nothing when it concerns the park. There have been movies that have bombed at the box office and gone on to become classics and movies that have done great at the box office when they came out and people today have never seen or heard of the movie. I can give you one example right now of a movie that bombed at the box office, but today a lot of people make a habit of watching it every year. The movie is It's A Wonderful Life.

If you want to talk DVD sales there are 8 movies that have sold more DVDs than Avatar. The movies in order of DVD sales since 2007 out are:

1 Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End 13,699,490 $279,046,391
2 Transformers 13,251,378 $251,422,291
3 Happy Feet 12,225,634 $196,875,350
4 300 12,110,490 $243,204,618
5 Ratatouille 11,233,232 $169,016,024
6 The Dark Knight 10,944,319 $191,678,574
7 Shrek the Third 10,889,584 $162,691,569
8 Twilight 10,233,407 $186,123,609
9 Avatar 10,173,099 $183,637,624

Here is the Top Ten list of movies released since 1977 based on Box Office receipts in the US.

1 2009 Avatar $760,507,625
2 1997 Titanic $600,788,188
3 2008 The Dark Knight $533,345,358
4 1977 Star Wars Ep. IV: A New Hope $460,998,007
5 2004 Shrek 2 $441,226,247
6 1982 ET: The Extra-Terrestrial $435,110,554
7 1999 Star Wars Ep. I: The Phantom Menace $431,088,297
8 2006 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest $423,315,812
9 1994 The Lion King $422,780,140
10 2010 Toy Story 3 $415,004,880

You will notice that Avatar only made around 160 million more than Titanic, which if you figure out ticket price differences is not that great. The so called average ticket price in 2009 was $7.50 while in 1997 it was $4.59,so if you take the amount each of those movies made at the box office and divide it by the average cost of tickets you see that Avatar sold around 101,401,017 tickets but it was probably less than that as a lot of people went to see it in 3D and paid more. Titanic average number of tickets sold based on the average ticket was 1,308,906,702 tickets which is way more than Avatar.

I expect that Avatar being in the Animal Kingdom will mean very little to non Disney Fanatics as if they hear there is a great ride there they will want to check it out and care less about the Avatar theme. I have never seen the movie and have little reason to watch it, but I know I will check out the new ride at the Animal Kingdom while I am there if it happens, but will not be making a special trip there based on the Avatar theme. For all I could care they could base the theme off of Ferngully and as long as the ride was great I would still check it out.

 

[Captain Chaos]

And about the Halloween costumes....Where there's a will, there's a way. If kids wanted badly enough to be Neytiri or some male Na'vi (can't remember the names off the top of my head...shows how memorable they are), a full body suit kind of like pajamas could have been made up by parents, if one hadn't been manufactured. Then again, I think the market would have anticipated the demand for Avatar costumes had there been any. Painting your body is not the only way to dress up as a Na'vi.

And again, just because you didn't see a kid dressed as a Na'vi (you got it right and you knew it so nice try making it look like they are forgettable trying to prove your point).. doesn't mean it didn't happen...

And to further prove how silly the Halloween costume excuse is, in 2011 the most popular costumes were Charlie Sheen, cast of Jersey Shore, Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Angry Birds.... So if we are going to build a theme park land or attraction based on popular Halloween costumes, then be prepared for a Jersey Shore stage show or the Charlie Sheen Experience...

 

[ctxak98]

I like how people throw the numbers out there to prove that Avatar was successful, but those numbers don't mean nothing when it concerns the park. There have been movies that have bombed at the box office and gone on to become classics and movies that have done great at the box office when they came out and people today have never seen or heard of the movie. I can give you one example right now of a movie that bombed at the box office, but today a lot of people make a habit of watching it every year. The movie is It's A Wonderful Life.

If you want to talk DVD sales there are 8 movies that have sold more DVDs than Avatar. The movies in order of DVD sales since 2007 out are:

1 Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End 13,699,490 $279,046,391
2 Transformers 13,251,378 $251,422,291
3 Happy Feet 12,225,634 $196,875,350
4 300 12,110,490 $243,204,618
5 Ratatouille 11,233,232 $169,016,024
6 The Dark Knight 10,944,319 $191,678,574
7 Shrek the Third 10,889,584 $162,691,569
8 Twilight 10,233,407 $186,123,609
9 Avatar 10,173,099 $183,637,624

Here is the Top Ten list of movies released since 1977 based on Box Office receipts in the US.

1 2009 Avatar $760,507,625
2 1997 Titanic $600,788,188
3 2008 The Dark Knight $533,345,358
4 1977 Star Wars Ep. IV: A New Hope $460,998,007
5 2004 Shrek 2 $441,226,247
6 1982 ET: The Extra-Terrestrial $435,110,554
7 1999 Star Wars Ep. I: The Phantom Menace $431,088,297
8 2006 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest $423,315,812
9 1994 The Lion King $422,780,140
10 2010 Toy Story 3 $415,004,880

You will notice that Avatar only made around 160 million more than Titanic, which if you figure out ticket price differences is not that great. The so called average ticket price in 2009 was $7.50 while in 1997 it was $4.59,so if you take the amount each of those movies made at the box office and divide it by the average cost of tickets you see that Avatar sold around 101,401,017 tickets but it was probably less than that as a lot of people went to see it in 3D and paid more. Titanic average number of tickets sold based on the average ticket was 1,308,906,702 tickets which is way more than Avatar.

I expect that Avatar being in the Animal Kingdom will mean very little to non Disney Fanatics as if they hear there is a great ride there they will want to check it out and care less about the Avatar theme. I have never seen the movie and have little reason to watch it, but I know I will check out the new ride at the Animal Kingdom while I am there if it happens, but will not be making a special trip there based on the Avatar theme. For all I could care they could base the theme off of Ferngully and as long as the ride was great I would still check it out.

SO....Harry potter didnt even make the list???? :lookaroun

 

[fbp]

The bottom line is this... Avatar will make a bad theme park land.

Would you mind throwing up some proof? Examples from another 'Avatar-land' would do.

 

[ctxak98]

Woah, easy there, tiger. I don't get credit for remembering Neytiri? :lol:

I recall, in one of the first threads about this subject, some (mistakenly) objected by saying that Avatar is not family friendly, to which the land's proponents retorted that the Star Wars movies represented in Disney parks are not exactly family friendly either. Yet, every Halloween, I see kids dressing up as characters from Star Wars. I also regularly see children dressing up as the Scream character. And, anyway, what I said could apply to adult costumes as well, especially for Avatar fans in the northern states (or more chaste fans, as it were).

Just throwing in my two cents. It really is a silly line of discussion, no matter where you stand on the whole Avatar at WDW. The bottom line is this: Avatar was, no matter how popular, a bad movie and will make a bad theme park land. If you enjoy it, fine, I don't begrudge you that. I'll just enjoy the rest of DAK.

This is where I say your wrong. Its your opinion that it will be a bad land!? or a bad movie!? I dont understand how you can say this for the entire population??? cuz it makes it sound like you are!

 

[timeman]

SO....Harry potter didnt even make the list???? :lookaroun

Box Office wise Harry Potter & the Deathly Hollows Pt 2 ranks as #13 with $381,011,219. The best selling DVD release of Harry Potter since 2007 was Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix which sold 9,905,305 copies.

You can find the numbers for DVD sales since 2007 and Box Office takes at http://www.the-numbers.com/

 

[haveyoumetmark]

SO....Harry potter didnt even make the list???? :lookaroun

I know it's hard to believe for those constantly regurgitating numbers in this thread, but numbers aren't everything. Harry Potter is still arguably the most wildly popular theme park expansion of all time. Avatar in DAK, on the other hand, conjures cringeworthy reactions from most people in my experience.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Just throwing in my two cents. It really is a silly line of discussion, no matter where you stand on the whole Avatar at WDW. The bottom line is this: Avatar was, no matter how popular, a bad movie and will make a bad theme park land. If you enjoy it, fine, I don't begrudge you that. I'll just enjoy the rest of DAK.

And here we go again... A hater tossing around opinion as fact... This is EXACTLY what I was getting at in previous posts... You don't like the movie, fine, that is your OPINION... you think the movie is bad, fine that is your OPINION... but there is no basis in fact that the movie was BAD...

The haters continue to prove my point every time they post...

 

[Captain Chaos]

Oh, I agree, I think the whole "Halloween costume" discussion is irrelevant to whether or not a theme park land should be built. (See my previous post) I was just throwing my two cents in there to keep the discussion from becoming too one-sided.


I could not for the life of me name a male Na'vi character from that movie off the top of my head. As for the other names...I chalk that up to my incredible memory.

I wish the Halloween costume never even came up, but someone (not you!!!) has to try to use every single outlet to try to prove Avatar isn't popular or stinks... And that is where their anti-Avatar arguments start to become silly...

And kudos for remembering the name... I liked the movie and I still didn't know the name LOL... For what it is worth though, I don't remember all the characters, planets, alien races, or names of the vehicles in Star Wars either and I consider myself a huge Star Wars fan, cause, fact is, I have more important things in my life to worry about than remembering the names of all the characters in any movie I saw.. But that is just me... :lol:

 

[ctxak98]

And here we go again... A hater tossing around opinion as fact... This is EXACTLY what I was getting at in previous posts... You don't like the movie, fine, that is your OPINION... you think the movie is bad, fine that is your OPINION... but there is no basis in fact that the movie was BAD...

The haters continue to prove my point every time they post...

I KNOW ITS SO FRUSTRATING!....I agree though. We cannot see so far into the future as to how Avatarland is going to come out!:lol: