AutoShow in Motion - Epcot

[WDW1971]

nothing built in Detroit or anywhere in the US :drevil:

Give me a break. You've obviously had too many sips of the Anti-Domestic car Kool-Aid. I've owned both domestic and Asian and have had just as many problems with the Asian as the domestic. Besides, Mercedes, BMW AND EVERY Asian manufacturer build cars in the USA.

Go sell your ignorance elsewhere.

Edit: Before someone claims I've called someone "stupid", the dictionary defines "ignorance" as "The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed." Therefore, I'm only saying Pumbas Nakasak is obviously unaware that just about every manufacturer selling cars in the USA builds at least some of them here.

Now, flame me if you will, but I would win this argument in a court of law.

 

[mkt]

Give me a break. You've obviously had too many sips of the Anti-Domestic car Kool-Aid. I've owned both domestic and Asian and have had just as many problems with the Asian as the domestic. Besides, Mercedes, BMW AND EVERY Asian manufacturer build cars in the USA.

errr... he's not exactly American... He's actually a Scotsman living in England. Furthermore there's more to the driving experience than the car starting every day and being cheap to fix when something DOES go wrong. Some people actually enjoy driving their cars... hence, why the Ford Focus is the most pertinent American Car in Europe... it handles decently, sips fuel (instead of chugging it), and is small enough to fit on most Euro roads.

Sorry... I don't buy a car based on national pride/origin. I buy it based on how much of my sanity I'll retain from driving it. That's the reason I drive my little sports sedan now as opposed to a Chevy Impala or a Ford Five Hundred... at the end of the day, I'll have a smile on my face.

Plus... until recently, the US manufacturers have made NOTHING worth exporting abroad to the UK... if their sales are dismal enough here, why should we send them abroad? The Chrysler 300 is the first American Car worth sharing with the world... and I will stand by that statement.

 

[bhg469]

Give me a break. You've obviously had too many sips of the Anti-Domestic car Kool-Aid. I've owned both domestic and Asian and have had just as many problems with the Asian as the domestic. Besides, Mercedes, BMW AND EVERY Asian manufacturer build cars in the USA.

First let me quote MKT

snip.

well put MKT. I drive a japanese car (see avatar for deatails) Why did i buy it?? simple answer: I am a big rally fan, If ford would have released an AWD turbo focus here i would have bought it in a heart beat, but they didnt. And thats why i dont like the domestic market, they ship off the best car for the money and leave us with nothing. we have 1, just 1 turbo car in the us market! Sure chevy is making the gm is making the ss/redlines but the funny thing about those is that they dont make peak power until after redline and for those who dont know what that means imagine someone telling you that you are the fastest sprinter in the world but if you try to run fast your heart will explode after a while, not cool huh? now on to you wdw 1971....

Turn on the tv right now switch to the speed channel, no go ahead and do it.... see whats on about 22 hours of the day.... NASCAR. if this is our best american automobiles then we need to rethink everything. Theres a reason jaguars, mercedes, BMWs are so expensive, cause they are better. but a cadillac CTS-V up against a BMW M5. Not only will that care outhandle out accelerate and out brake the caddy but it will be the most comfortable car ou ever drive like a maniac in. Bottom line is domestic cars are lacking in alot of areas. I owned domestics for years and im saying that they broke down more cause they didnt. They are improving but they are still not quite there yet.

 

[WDW1971]

errr... he's not exactly American... He's actually a Scotsman living in England. Furthermore there's more to the driving experience than the car starting every day and being cheap to fix when something DOES go wrong. Some people actually enjoy driving their cars... hence, why the Ford Focus is the most pertinent American Car in Europe... it handles decently, sips fuel (instead of chugging it), and is small enough to fit on most Euro roads.

Sorry... I don't buy a car based on national pride/origin. I buy it based on how much of my sanity I'll retain from driving it. That's the reason I drive my little sports sedan now as opposed to a Chevy Impala or a Ford Five Hundred... at the end of the day, I'll have a smile on my face.

Plus... until recently, the US manufacturers have made NOTHING worth exporting abroad to the UK... if their sales are dismal enough here, why should we send them abroad? The Chrysler 300 is the first American Car worth sharing with the world... and I will stand by that statement.

First of all, your argument is unwarranted. My problem with Pumba is that he didn't qualify his statement. He made a blanket statement that any car built in the US wasn't "proper". He never talked about driving quality or handling or anything of the sort. He made a bigoted statement about the United States.

 

[WDW1971]

now on to you wdw 1971....

Turn on the tv right now switch to the speed channel, no go ahead and do it.... see whats on about 22 hours of the day.... NASCAR. if this is our best american automobiles then we need to rethink everything. Theres a reason jaguars, mercedes, BMWs are so expensive, cause they are better. but a cadillac CTS-V up against a BMW M5. Not only will that care outhandle out accelerate and out brake the caddy but it will be the most comfortable car ou ever drive like a maniac in. Bottom line is domestic cars are lacking in alot of areas. I owned domestics for years and im [not] saying that they broke down more cause they didnt. They are improving but they are still not quite there yet.

So what if NASCAR is on the Speed Channel? It's a popular sport. I like to watch it, but those are just tube-frame hand-built racers wearing skins that resemble street cars.

The CTS-V has gotten some very good reviews. As a side note: It's ironic you chose to talk about the BMW M5 since BMW buys the transmissions for it and the X5 from GM (same transmission as the CTS, by the way).

Your comment about "better" cars is subjective. Mercedes ranks below industry average in dependability. I'm sorry, if I pay that much for a car it better be more dependable than a Hyundai.

 

[mkt]

I think that you're reading too much into his statement. As an automotive enthusiast, for many years there hasn't been a single US branded and made car that has been a player on a global market. The Chrysler 300 and Cadillac CTS are the first two products that even come close to earning that... and they're still not up to par with most European and Asian offerings as far as long-term reliability and material quality... to a MUCH lesser degree, the new Ford Mustang and the 2004+ Dodge SRT4 fall into that category.

This isn't to say only the US produces mediocre automotive products. The majority of current Opels/Vauxhalls aren't worth the air in their tires (save for the new Astra and the Speedster/VX220). Furthermore, French cars (save for smart) are known across the markets they are sold in for having TERRIBLE reliability and all sorts of electrical gremlins. Don't even get me started on Fiat.

If the US automotive manufacturers want to succeed, they need to come up with a product worth driving, and have it on the roads before the European/Asian counterparts do. Personally,I feel injecting more of the current Holden inventory in the US GM lineup would be a good move. All it takes is 1 good car to revitalize a company's desirability... Detroit needs to learn this. No one NEEDS a Chrysler ME412, but the wonders it would do for Chryslers image are more than anyone can imagine.

The GTO and Solstice are presently saving Pontiac's image, and I feel they're succeeding

The majority of automotive enthusiasts will agree with me on all of my points.

[/rant]

 

[WDW1971]

Personally,I feel injecting more of the current Holden inventory in the US GM lineup would be a good move.

I may not see eye-to-eye with you on everything, but on this subject we are in agreement. I've thought that since the late 80's. I'd love to see the entire Holden line brought over and dispersed among the GM divisions in the USA. Personally, I'd buy a Crewman SS.

 

[CapnStinxy]

Jerry... I was removed last time for getting a Corvette into a drift.

Stick, or only auto available?

 

[mkt]

I may not see eye-to-eye with you on everything, but on this subject we are in agreement. I've thought that since the late 80's. I'd love to see the entire Holden line brought over and dispersed among the GM divisions in the USA. Personally, I'd buy a Crewman SS.

see... even devoute enemies, the American muscle car guy and the sharp driving import lover can find common ground! :lol:

the other one I'd like to see is the Euro Focus over here in place of our current POS Focus. Also, perhaps bring some of the Euro Ford lineup over as a revamped Mercury lineup. I could definitely see the Ford Mondeo here as the new Mercury Sable... or not. And we NEED the Aussie Ford Falcon over here... a 4 door Mustang that will outhandle it and carry a full family.

 

[mkt]

Stick, or only auto available?

there was a line for each one... you picked which one you wanted to do and did it.

Apparently, clutches were being burned out at the rate of at least one per 3 day event.

 

[bhg469]

mmmm burnt clutch. reminds me of my first auto-x event. And going back to a statement from before with bmy using a gm tranny. Gm used an entire subaru car mins the body in the saab 9-2x. Now toyota owns that share so we will probably see a 300hp AWD hybrid getting 40 mpg. Lets see gm make that sometime this century.

 

[CapnStinxy]

Apparently, clutches were being burned out at the rate of at least one per 3 day event.

Whaaaat? The stock Corvette clutch isn't the world's best, but it's no weak sister, either. Good grief, sounds like a lot of people dunno what they're doing.

 

[mkt]

Whaaaat? The stock Corvette clutch isn't the world's best, but it's no weak sister, either. Good grief, sounds like a lot of people dunno what they're doing.

that's exactly what was happening...

"oops, missed the clutch" GRIND-KA-CHUNK *piece of metal falls behind car... HEY THERE'S 4TH GEAR!

 

[bhg469]

that's exactly what was happening...

"oops, missed the clutch" GRIND-KA-CHUNK *piece of metal falls behind car... HEY THERE'S 4TH GEAR!

come on!! you can survive in a vette with only 4 gears...:lookaroun

 

[WDW1971]

mmmm burnt clutch. reminds me of my first auto-x event. And going back to a statement from before with bmy using a gm tranny. Gm used an entire subaru car mins the body in the saab 9-2x. Now toyota owns that share so we will probably see a 300hp AWD hybrid getting 40 mpg. Lets see gm make that sometime this century.

Have you read of the upcoming GM full-size hybrid SUVS? They will have the motors in the transmission and will have a dual-stage drive. It's a system they designed with DCX. That system will move down through the other lines after being introduced on the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade/Avalanche.

By the way, don't they teach capitalization in public schools anymore? :lol:

 

[bhg469]

Have you read of the upcoming GM full-size hybrid SUVS? They will have the motors in the transmission and will have a dual-stage drive. It's a system they designed with DCX. That system will move down through the other lines after being introduced on the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade/Avalanche.

By the way, don't they teach capitalization in public schools anymore? :lol:

i will have to consult my editor on that capitalization . about time gm jumped on board, honda has been doing it for years now. Now if they can just tackle that whole building garbage on wheels issue. My sierra sounded like a tin can when i opened and closed my doors and it felt very weak when towing, my brother drives a titan from the same year truck is more powerful better features and better everything you can imagine for the same price. I am not against domestic cars and you seem to be making it out like i am, GM especially is doing nothing to keep people interested in their car lines. The GTO was the one car i was looking forward to more than anything else, what do i get?? a holden monaro! come on!! that was one of the biggest let downs of my life. It seems like you are very close minded about foreign cars and you seem to be turning things around on me.

 

[mkt]

personally, I like the GTO... but then again, I wanted to see the Monaro on our shores, so that's a plus for me.

 

[bhg469]

personally, I like the GTO... but then again, I wanted to see the Monaro on our shores, so that's a plus for me.

then youll love this

http://www.fpv.com.au/index.asp?link_id=2.174

why not here ford?!?!?!?

 

[mkt]

I concur

 

[WDW1971]

i will have to consult my editor on that capitalization . about time gm jumped on board, honda has been doing it for years now. Now if they can just tackle that whole building garbage on wheels issue. My sierra sounded like a tin can when i opened and closed my doors and it felt very weak when towing, my brother drives a titan from the same year truck is more powerful better features and better everything you can imagine for the same price. I am not against domestic cars and you seem to be making it out like i am, GM especially is doing nothing to keep people interested in their car lines. The GTO was the one car i was looking forward to more than anything else, what do i get?? a holden monaro! come on!! that was one of the biggest let downs of my life. It seems like you are very close minded about foreign cars and you seem to be turning things around on me.

I've owned three Asian cars...two Toyotas (one very good, the other a troublesome pain in the butt). My wife owned an Accord when we married. I hated working on that car and it spent more time in the shop than my Saturn from the same model year...and they both had over 200,000 miles. Don't tell me I'm close-minded on foriegn cars. But, I can tell you that I've always had more problems doing maintenance on the foreign cars. They're a pain to work on. I changed the timing belts on the Accord and I had to disconnect the stupid motor mounts and MOVE the motor to have clearance to remove the timing belt cover. That's stupid packaging, no matter what company made it. But, we now have a good, reliable American vehicle to replace the Accord. :sohappy: